I'm comfortable in environments similar to TWI, boot camp training facilities, the White House... all the places that are controlled and full of order
Maybe that has something to do with my German Mother...
I also notice all the 'talking' that goes on w/ Superior Parents and their children... these parents tend to let their children know ALL THE EVILS that are lurking out there, within the neighbors, people who look or talk differently...
The children seem shy, depending on that 'all knowing' parent to let them know if it's safe to mingle... :unsure:
I know my parents definitely influence my decision to become involved with TWI.
My father was the drill sargent parent, to the point where it was abuse. But back then it was called discipline. I don't know if he was the reason though. I never thought about it. Maybe.
But as mean as my father was, that's how nice my mother was(is!) I worshiped her. And when she took the PFAL class, and she told me it would be a good thing if I took it. So, I did.
Yeah, maybe if my father wasn't such a jerk, I wouldn't have ever heard of TWI.
On some level, you are correct Greasytech. But I was raised by non-religious parents and yet from early childhood I remember wanting to learn about God.
Course being the contrary person that I am, I would have to say that although my mom had drill sergeant tendencies from a verbally abusive standpoint - she rarely had the time or inclination to notice her kids at all and we were by and large unsupervised during our childhood.
Yes, you're right, GT, but this isn't really about religion, per se. I would say it' s more about how our childhood perhaps fostered a predisposition toward joining what's known in the psychological field as a "high-demand" group.
It just so happens, the group we belonged to had a religious veneer. But, this can happen in any sphere of endeavor. Remember the black Nike crowd? Or, Scientology, for that matter.
I don't claim to know all the answers (just a lot of them ). I was just throwing this out for consideration.
controlling or abusive parents taught the dynamics of becoming co-dependent.. on the abuser. How do we get or give love? twi filled the bill properly for many .
Definitely part of itwas trying to appear perfect in my husbands eyes-- I hadn't yet learned that thse who demand perfection of us do so because they themsleves fall so short of the mark
Amen to that Mo. But (and you don't have to answer, it is just posed for thought) have you ever wondered why you were willing to work so hard to meet your husband's expectations?
I have. Part of it was because I was something of a perfectionist by nature. I had to learn how to accept my imperfections, learn to remind myself that no one is perfect, therefore it is okay for me to not be perfect.
But part of it was because I didn't really love myself. I only thought I was worthy, loveable, if I could earn the love of someone else. That one I overcame via two fronts. First, because such thought patterns inevitable lead one to pair up with someone who will reaffirm your own self doubts and self criticims, I realized that I would never find someone who would truly love me for who I was. That as long as I continued with those thought patterns, everyone I paired up with would always want to fix me or change me. The second part was what I said earlier, learning to allow myself to be imperfect - self acceptance. Once I learned to accept and love myself for who I was, I no longer was tolerant of anyone else treating me with less than love and acceptance for who I was.
But I learned the wrong thinking patterns from a mother who was very critical, a mother whose approval was rarely ever given. So, in a sense, I guess Sushi's premise does fit for me.
Well with me I have 3 parents and I only depend on one of them. There is my earthly family and my heavenly father, you can guess which one I depend on. When I was young I decided to take the PFAL Class because I wanted to. No one forced my hand, burned with a hot flame, or twisted my wrist. In order for us to blame others we just point one finger out and three fingers are pointing right back at you. Our parents may be to blame, but we finally made the decision to do it. No matter what happens God is still there for us.
Greg, I don't disagree with you that most of us were adults, and made our own decisions and choices. However, I do think it is helpful to look back and understand what things influenced our decisions.
I don't "blame my parents" per se. I love my parents and think that they did the best they knew how. They were imperfect, so what, we all are. But it does help me to understand why I made the choices I made.
Excellent observation, Sushi. Yes, my Daddy was very logical, very structured and very business-like in the way he ran the family. Mama was the emotional, lovey, nurturing one. So, naturally, I was very impressed with what I was hearing and the logical presentation of the material and the feeling that I was "one up" on my Daddy when it came to Bible knowledge.
I also related to the domineering, take-control mannerisms of craiggers and then married someone just like them. Why can't we recognize those traits that we don't like but identify all to well with? Is it a comfort thing? A familiar thing? How come it takes soooo long to recognize the pattern?
I also related to the domineering, take-control mannerisms of craiggers and then married someone just like them. Why can't we recognize those traits that we don't like but identify all to well with? Is it a comfort thing? A familiar thing? How come it takes soooo long to recognize the pattern?
My impression would be, yes, it's a comfort thing. People generally don't like to venture outside their 'comfort zone'. We like things to be predictable.
There is an old saying, 'better the devil known, than the devil unknown'. While perhaps a bit pessimistic, I think it accurately describes most people's tendencies.
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SafariVista
I can see your point Sushi.
I'm comfortable in environments similar to TWI, boot camp training facilities, the White House... all the places that are controlled and full of order
Maybe that has something to do with my German Mother...
I also notice all the 'talking' that goes on w/ Superior Parents and their children... these parents tend to let their children know ALL THE EVILS that are lurking out there, within the neighbors, people who look or talk differently...
The children seem shy, depending on that 'all knowing' parent to let them know if it's safe to mingle... :unsure:
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VeganXTC
I know my parents definitely influence my decision to become involved with TWI.
My father was the drill sargent parent, to the point where it was abuse. But back then it was called discipline. I don't know if he was the reason though. I never thought about it. Maybe.
But as mean as my father was, that's how nice my mother was(is!) I worshiped her. And when she took the PFAL class, and she told me it would be a good thing if I took it. So, I did.
Yeah, maybe if my father wasn't such a jerk, I wouldn't have ever heard of TWI.
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krys
That is an interesting point of view sushi!
I was never good enough. If I scored 94 on the Solid Geometry Regeants, they bugged me as to why I didn't score 98 or 100.
Same with everything....no matter what I did, or how hard I tried, or what I put into it, it was not good enough.
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GT
Religion propagates through generations because it is pushed on children as they are raised.
Without this, religion would have died out long ago.
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Abigail
On some level, you are correct Greasytech. But I was raised by non-religious parents and yet from early childhood I remember wanting to learn about God.
Course being the contrary person that I am, I would have to say that although my mom had drill sergeant tendencies from a verbally abusive standpoint - she rarely had the time or inclination to notice her kids at all and we were by and large unsupervised during our childhood.
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GT
Environment and culture play a role. If there were no god in the culture, you'd probably never bother looking for him/her/it.
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Sushi
Yes, you're right, GT, but this isn't really about religion, per se. I would say it' s more about how our childhood perhaps fostered a predisposition toward joining what's known in the psychological field as a "high-demand" group.
It just so happens, the group we belonged to had a religious veneer. But, this can happen in any sphere of endeavor. Remember the black Nike crowd? Or, Scientology, for that matter.
I don't claim to know all the answers (just a lot of them
). I was just throwing this out for consideration.
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GT
It's a point of view.
Currently, I don't distinguish between religion and TWI. Basically the same thing everywhere, just taste different.
There is a biological element to this, but it's too much for me to type at the moment....
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pond
i think it is about learning co-dependency .
controlling or abusive parents taught the dynamics of becoming co-dependent.. on the abuser. How do we get or give love? twi filled the bill properly for many .
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WordWolf
Perhaps it applies to some people, but it didn't apply to me.
I was looking for answers.
For my first few meetings, I sat closest to the door, waiting for a sign to run.
To a degree, I bought into what we all bought into, but I also had points where
I saw mistakes and errors, and saw fit to address problems with leadership.
When lcm fired all the local leadership, I went to ROA 89 and observed for
several days, and was thus able to make an INFORMED decision, having heard
from both sides about themselves. The leadership among those who left
learned I still addressed problems with them when I saw them.
Ultimately, after I faded out, I doubt few of them missed me.
So, I don't fit the pattern described, which may only mean I'm an exception to a rule.
Which is normal for me. :)
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templelady
Definitely part of itwas trying to appear perfect in my husbands eyes-- I hadn't yet learned that thse who demand perfection of us do so because they themsleves fall so short of the mark
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Abigail
Amen to that Mo. But (and you don't have to answer, it is just posed for thought) have you ever wondered why you were willing to work so hard to meet your husband's expectations?
I have. Part of it was because I was something of a perfectionist by nature. I had to learn how to accept my imperfections, learn to remind myself that no one is perfect, therefore it is okay for me to not be perfect.
But part of it was because I didn't really love myself. I only thought I was worthy, loveable, if I could earn the love of someone else. That one I overcame via two fronts. First, because such thought patterns inevitable lead one to pair up with someone who will reaffirm your own self doubts and self criticims, I realized that I would never find someone who would truly love me for who I was. That as long as I continued with those thought patterns, everyone I paired up with would always want to fix me or change me. The second part was what I said earlier, learning to allow myself to be imperfect - self acceptance. Once I learned to accept and love myself for who I was, I no longer was tolerant of anyone else treating me with less than love and acceptance for who I was.
But I learned the wrong thinking patterns from a mother who was very critical, a mother whose approval was rarely ever given. So, in a sense, I guess Sushi's premise does fit for me.
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greg123
Well with me I have 3 parents and I only depend on one of them. There is my earthly family and my heavenly father, you can guess which one I depend on. When I was young I decided to take the PFAL Class because I wanted to. No one forced my hand, burned with a hot flame, or twisted my wrist. In order for us to blame others we just point one finger out and three fingers are pointing right back at you. Our parents may be to blame, but we finally made the decision to do it. No matter what happens God is still there for us.
Greg
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Abigail
Greg, I don't disagree with you that most of us were adults, and made our own decisions and choices. However, I do think it is helpful to look back and understand what things influenced our decisions.
I don't "blame my parents" per se. I love my parents and think that they did the best they knew how. They were imperfect, so what, we all are. But it does help me to understand why I made the choices I made.
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Belle
Excellent observation, Sushi. Yes, my Daddy was very logical, very structured and very business-like in the way he ran the family. Mama was the emotional, lovey, nurturing one. So, naturally, I was very impressed with what I was hearing and the logical presentation of the material and the feeling that I was "one up" on my Daddy when it came to Bible knowledge.
I also related to the domineering, take-control mannerisms of craiggers and then married someone just like them.
Why can't we recognize those traits that we don't like but identify all to well with? Is it a comfort thing? A familiar thing? How come it takes soooo long to recognize the pattern?
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Sushi
My impression would be, yes, it's a comfort thing. People generally don't like to venture outside their 'comfort zone'. We like things to be predictable.
There is an old saying, 'better the devil known, than the devil unknown'. While perhaps a bit pessimistic, I think it accurately describes most people's tendencies.
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