It's absolutely true. I read about cruise lines promoting this a few years ago.
I'd be a little concerned about what hospital I might end up in if an emergency health situation were to arise, but if it's too late for that, the dumping-you-over-the-side part sounds pretty good...MUCH cheaper than a funeral! :D
Why not start a crusie line that caters to retirees ... depending on the care you need, you could get on the proper ship that specializes in that. Need cataract surgery? That ship is going to Tahiti ...
Um, yeah, a cruise ship is cheaper and a whole lot more fun, but there is no way this could be considered an alternative to a nursing home. Nursing home residents are there because they are no longer able to care for themselves. Many are at the point where they need help with almost everything, including bathing, eating, even going to the bathroom. And the vast majority have many health problems that need medication, therapy, and/or a restricted diet. Then, there are those who are mentally unaware of the situation around them. A $5 tip isn't going to provide the kind of help needed.
Maybe you could compare cruise ships to assisted living complexes, or senior living centers, but not a nursing home.
I think a typical ratio of patients to workers at a nursing home is like 3 or 4 to one. I wonder what it is one a cruise line. Of course a nursing home sends its patients out for all kinds of health care ... so that would have to be on board. The folks taking care of the ship also comes into play.
Here you can get assisted living places for like $65/day, or $90/day for two. On a ship you'd have to consider the isolation from family factor.
Well, maybe this lifestyle for a few years, and you wouldn't need a nursing home, that is IF you ate mostly raw fruits & veggies & worked out everyday :)
Aren't there some 'other' fun activities that keep a person young?
I though I saw someone was already building a floating city for retirees as a permanent residence. It was supposed to have 2 heliports, medical facilities and everything else a small city would need. The idea was you could retire on it permanently and then take side trips near wherever it was, as the ship was supposed to stay cruising around the world.
You could even get off in one place and "home" to visit for the holidays if you wanted to! Sounds like a great idea to me. The apartments were sold, not rented, and everything was first class so the price was in the millions per apartment.
Vegan, you're correct. I should have caught that but posted in a hurry. These cruise ships are touted as an alternative to assisted living. Nursing homes today are for those needing a much higher level of care than they could receive on a cruise ship.
watersedge, it's absolutely false that most nursing homes are corrupt and most assisted living facilities want your assets. There are some that would fall into that category to be sure, but there are also many excellent facilities (a good deal of them nonprofits), staffed by people who care about and are constantly looking for better ways to care for the frail elderly among us.
My mother died in a nursing home. It was recommended by my family doctor, who was on the board, and I think a part owner, which I didn't know at the time. She was there a week and a half. The ratio of staff:patient in the evenings was about 1:25. The ones who were there were 1 real nurse and several helpers or aides, who didn't give a rat's behind about their job. My mother had a colostomy, the bag was full to bursting. I went and routed out the aide who was supposed to take care of her, and this young lady informed me that she would change the bag as soon as she had her cigarette break and called her boyfriend. Thirty minutes later, she was nowhere to be found. I found the one real nurse and offered to change the bag myself, given the proper equipment.
While I was desperately trying to arrange for home care for my mom (I HAD to work), I came in to see my mom, who begged me to let her die. I told her I would get her home in the next couple of days. She died at 1:00 AM that very night.
They wash all the patients' robes, clothing etc together in big laundry loads. They took my mom's wedding ring and the diamond ring my dad gave her for some anniversary or other and put them in the medication cart because they had no safe. Their main policy seemed to be benign neglect. I had asked for physical therapy for her and got nada. The doctor himself told me she would die in a couple of weeks and he didn't really want to do anything to save her or make her more comfortable.
The morning after she died, when I had been up all night, he refused to write me a scrip for something to help me sleep. Needless to say I never saw the bastard again.
This nursing home is very well thought of in the city where we used to live. The doctor is not, but I didn't know that then.
As a result of all this grief, I view nursing homes as a place to send an old or sick or both person to die. The way around the money is to make sure the "patient" or "victim" owns no property. My husband's stepfather has it all set up that should he predecease my mother-in-law, the house they live in immediately becomes the property of his son, so that she will have to go to a nursing home, and his estate won't pay a dime as it all goes to his son. Needlesss to say, we don't like him very much for that, not that he cares.
My husband's grandmother lived in a little nursing home for years. One roommate she had tried to kill her.
Its all about the money. You can get great nursing home care if you have your own money. Medicare isn't going to shell out enough money to make the nursing home owners and administrators rich. So they take their cut out of what should be put into things like more staff and higher wages for the staff to attract quality caregivers.
The baby boomers have to start taxing and pouring money into the system now, while they are still in charge, if they want to see improvement in the situation by the time they need a nursing home.
I worked in nursing homes for a couple years. The patient to aide ratio averaged 10 patients to one aide. It was a light day if we were assigned only 8 or 9.
Every day every one of my patients received their full cares, including lotion rubbed into their backs, legs, arms, wherever... EVERY DAY.
I worked in the nursing home Teri Schiavo lived in until she went to Hospice Care. She was on a private-pay floor. The ambitious aides all wanted to work on that floor and I worked hard to get to be there. Every one of those patients got their cares to the best of our abilities. I was proud of where I worked.
I wouldn't work in a place that didn't treat the patients that well.
Bow, you're one in a million! If you had been around, my mom would have received excellent care. Most of the aides seemed to have little if any training. It was the saddest place I've ever seen outside of New Knoxville. This one elderly lady in a wheelchair wanted to spend time with me so desperately. She had been a professor at Ohio Wesleyan for many years and had a son in California who could care less. She died about a month after my mom. I was so sad that I was so completely torn up by my own grief that I couldn't help her.
She was very intelligent and though her body was giving out, her mind was still sharp and she knew how awful it was for her, but was helpless and unloved at the end.
For years, when I drove by that place, I'd turn my face the other way. Now I live in a different town.
If the time ever comes I would need one of those places, I think I'll inject an entire bottle of insulin instead.
I understand the anger and pain that come from a bad experience with long-term care. I've had those bad experiences with loved ones in nursing homes, too. As I said before, there are some poorly run nursing homes out there to be sure. But to portray them all as bad and greedy is unfair, especially to the people who work their butts off for low wages to provide good care.
I've been in a lot of nursing homes, both as a family member of someone living in one, and as a journalist. Some of these places were horrid, but in recent years, most have been excellent.
Given the financial difficulties they face, I'm surprised any nursing home can stay in business for long. They're extremely heavily regulated by gov't at all levels, and compliance with all those regs is costly. Medicare and Medicaid reimbursement frequently falls way short of what it costs to deliver care. Contrary to popular belief, the person in charge (CEO or whatever the title) is unlikely to be making big bucks. And,
unlike the facility where WG had the misfortune to place her mother, many nursing homes are nonprofits. They're not padding the wallets of owners like that doctor who referred her, either.
When nursing homes look for nurses' aides, who are the heart and soul of any long-term care facility, the wages they can afford to pay are on par with what McDonald's or Burger King pays. And these people work 10 times harder than they'd ever have to work at McDonald's. I've interviewed certified nursing assistants who've been on the job 20, 30 years. Not for the big bucks, but because they love it and because they worked for someone who treated them with respect. Appreciation by management goes a long way in easing the pain of a pitiful paycheck.
God bless 'em. I couldn't do it. Heavy lifting, poopy pants, dementia, disgruntled family members. It takes a special kind of person to do it right.
By the way, the same pi$$-poor care that some of you have described goes on in hospitals, too. I've seen it on several occasions when my loved ones have been hospitalized. Hospitals are understaffed and the staffs are overworked. In short, our healthcare system's broken and, IMO, needs a complete overhaul.
Back to nursing homes. There is some help available for those who face the difficult decision of having to place someone in a skilled nursing facility. The Web site at the link below gives a lot of good info about choosing a facility. There are other online resources for helping families choose, as well.
And here's another tip: Don't just take someone's word for it. If you're looking for a nursing home for a loved one, you need to visit several, unannounced, and ask someone to show you around.
If the staff look totally stressed out and miserable, that's a bad sign. If residents are strapped into wheelchairs lined up in hallways, forget it. If it smells, leave. Bottom line is keep your eyes and ears open and trust your instincts. There are some great facilities out there. Settle for nothing less.
Another note, medicare doesn't pay for nursing home stays, except for limited time periods after an injury of some sort. If you just need more care than you and loved ones can provide, it all comes out of your pocket. I'm not sure what private insurance policies you can get on that.
For the most part nursing homes are where you go to die. I'm talking about the skilled care level. If you are still in the assisted living category, there are some nice places with lots of activities that often seem to be a much better choice than staying home. I have an uncle that pays $80K / year to have full time help at his own home.
I would recommend encouragement for older folks to spend their money to get themselves the best quality possible, if they have the money. I have 3 uncles that could have had it much better toward the end, but pinched every penny as their nature was I guess. The extra money was left for ungrateful relatives that got a really nice chunk to throw around on things their benefactors never allowed for themselves. :(
I know in Maryland area, there are foks buying huge Victorians with about 6-8 bedrooms, and set them up for Assisted Living. THe requirements are minimal, staircases have to have a lift system plus firecode inspections. THe cost to convert is very minimal. It depends on level of care. THey get about 1000-1400 a month per senior. THe overhead is very low. THe folks who stay there always feel like thier in a home setting instead of a clinical setting...btw, the food is homeade too!!
Watered Garden, I am so sorry that you and your mother had to go through that experience. I have worked with CNAs, the helpers or aides, like you have described. They make everyone's job so much harder. Thankfully, where I work, if people like that are hired, they are fired very quickly.
I don't work in the business office of the nursing home, so I don't know all the laws concerning the running of a nursing home. And even if I did, laws are different from state to state. But I do know in all 50 states, the aides must be certified with their state, which means they had to have received training enough to satisfy their state's requirements. The state also sets the ratio of caregivers to resident. Nursing homes can and do supply more staff, but they must be careful not to provide too much, because the state also regulates how much a resident may be charged.
If a resident is accepted into our facility (acceptance is based on many things, the MOST important being, if we can provide quality of care) and then, for whatever reason, they are not able to make payments, the nursing home must absorb the cost. Medicare and Medicaid have employees whose sole job is to read charts of residents of nursing homes to find catch words which would make payment ineligible. If the resident is private pay, and the money runs out, again, we absorb the cost.
Certain cares, like therapy, are restricted by law. There is a cap on how much medicare and/or medicaid are willing to pay, so therapy stops, whether the resident could benefit or not.
The pay for new hires in my nursing home in the nursing department is: CNA's - 9.30, LPNs- 14.00, RNs-22.00. The McDonald's down the street hires at 10.00. If a CNA works double shifts at time and a half after 8 hours, for 10 days, she or he will make more money on that check than our administrator.
Now, there are many alternatives to nursing homes, which is a good thing. But for the nursing home, it means the residents are people who require the most care, or people who require a very short stay. It also means more empty beds, which is less money for the nursing home.
I think sometimes blame is placed on a nursing home when the situation is out of the facility's hands.
As far as i can tell Teri Shciavo got and received the best of care, and it was funded privately
from insurance and other sources.
most do not have the media exposure nor the financial backing to afford "high quality" care
the health care field has been a farce for decades and that includes nursing home and assissted living facilities, not to mention pharmecy products.
Money makes the world turn, the more you have the better off you are. When was the last time you saw a government official suffer the same fate as a common person? Isn't is supposed to be "We the people"?
Absolute power corrupts and that is what the medicinal field has become. No longer the keepers of life, just the bottom liners who count beans. Health care has been a joke for hard working folks like most of us, and a haven for those who know how to abuse...............do i smell kick-back here?
Where the money goes, there goes the care Where the heart goes there goes life
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Belle
Actually, it sounds right up my alley! I wonder if it'll still be an option when I retire!
Snopes Says it's True
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Linda Z
It's absolutely true. I read about cruise lines promoting this a few years ago.
I'd be a little concerned about what hospital I might end up in if an emergency health situation were to arise, but if it's too late for that, the dumping-you-over-the-side part sounds pretty good...MUCH cheaper than a funeral! :D
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rhino
Why not start a crusie line that caters to retirees ... depending on the care you need, you could get on the proper ship that specializes in that. Need cataract surgery? That ship is going to Tahiti ...
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VeganXTC
Um, yeah, a cruise ship is cheaper and a whole lot more fun, but there is no way this could be considered an alternative to a nursing home. Nursing home residents are there because they are no longer able to care for themselves. Many are at the point where they need help with almost everything, including bathing, eating, even going to the bathroom. And the vast majority have many health problems that need medication, therapy, and/or a restricted diet. Then, there are those who are mentally unaware of the situation around them. A $5 tip isn't going to provide the kind of help needed.
Maybe you could compare cruise ships to assisted living complexes, or senior living centers, but not a nursing home.
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rhino
You are such a spoil sport vegan ... but I agree
I think a typical ratio of patients to workers at a nursing home is like 3 or 4 to one. I wonder what it is one a cruise line. Of course a nursing home sends its patients out for all kinds of health care ... so that would have to be on board. The folks taking care of the ship also comes into play.
Here you can get assisted living places for like $65/day, or $90/day for two. On a ship you'd have to consider the isolation from family factor.
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SafariVista
Well, maybe this lifestyle for a few years, and you wouldn't need a nursing home, that is IF you ate mostly raw fruits & veggies & worked out everyday :)
Aren't there some 'other' fun activities that keep a person young?
Sounds close to heaven...
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krys
I though I saw someone was already building a floating city for retirees as a permanent residence. It was supposed to have 2 heliports, medical facilities and everything else a small city would need. The idea was you could retire on it permanently and then take side trips near wherever it was, as the ship was supposed to stay cruising around the world.
You could even get off in one place and "home" to visit for the holidays if you wanted to! Sounds like a great idea to me. The apartments were sold, not rented, and everything was first class so the price was in the millions per apartment.
Even so, what a great idea!
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watersedge
I never dreamed of getting old, never really thought how age catches up with my body.
for me it was always "young as you feel"
age spots later, wrinkles wrapping my body I ask where is Ponce deLeon?
The fountain of youth I drink from is good balanced food, les than 15 smokes a day,
3, thats three martinis a day and sleep and fredom to choose my own destiny
No to nursing homes (most are corrupt), No to assisted living (most want the assets)
Let me live and/or die on my own terms, cognizant or not I've earned that. I've earned my choice
IMO no one has any choice how to affect or effect another's will, save the one who's will is challenged
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ChasUFarley
Good luck getting Medicare to pay for your new "skilled" care facility! LOL!
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oilfieldmedic
Hey...maybe I can get a job on one of those ships and get out of this dump.
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Linda Z
Vegan, you're correct. I should have caught that but posted in a hurry. These cruise ships are touted as an alternative to assisted living. Nursing homes today are for those needing a much higher level of care than they could receive on a cruise ship.
watersedge, it's absolutely false that most nursing homes are corrupt and most assisted living facilities want your assets. There are some that would fall into that category to be sure, but there are also many excellent facilities (a good deal of them nonprofits), staffed by people who care about and are constantly looking for better ways to care for the frail elderly among us.
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Watered Garden
My mother died in a nursing home. It was recommended by my family doctor, who was on the board, and I think a part owner, which I didn't know at the time. She was there a week and a half. The ratio of staff:patient in the evenings was about 1:25. The ones who were there were 1 real nurse and several helpers or aides, who didn't give a rat's behind about their job. My mother had a colostomy, the bag was full to bursting. I went and routed out the aide who was supposed to take care of her, and this young lady informed me that she would change the bag as soon as she had her cigarette break and called her boyfriend. Thirty minutes later, she was nowhere to be found. I found the one real nurse and offered to change the bag myself, given the proper equipment.
While I was desperately trying to arrange for home care for my mom (I HAD to work), I came in to see my mom, who begged me to let her die. I told her I would get her home in the next couple of days. She died at 1:00 AM that very night.
They wash all the patients' robes, clothing etc together in big laundry loads. They took my mom's wedding ring and the diamond ring my dad gave her for some anniversary or other and put them in the medication cart because they had no safe. Their main policy seemed to be benign neglect. I had asked for physical therapy for her and got nada. The doctor himself told me she would die in a couple of weeks and he didn't really want to do anything to save her or make her more comfortable.
The morning after she died, when I had been up all night, he refused to write me a scrip for something to help me sleep. Needless to say I never saw the bastard again.
This nursing home is very well thought of in the city where we used to live. The doctor is not, but I didn't know that then.
As a result of all this grief, I view nursing homes as a place to send an old or sick or both person to die. The way around the money is to make sure the "patient" or "victim" owns no property. My husband's stepfather has it all set up that should he predecease my mother-in-law, the house they live in immediately becomes the property of his son, so that she will have to go to a nursing home, and his estate won't pay a dime as it all goes to his son. Needlesss to say, we don't like him very much for that, not that he cares.
My husband's grandmother lived in a little nursing home for years. One roommate she had tried to kill her.
I don't think very much of nursing homes.
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DrtyDzn
Its all about the money. You can get great nursing home care if you have your own money. Medicare isn't going to shell out enough money to make the nursing home owners and administrators rich. So they take their cut out of what should be put into things like more staff and higher wages for the staff to attract quality caregivers.
The baby boomers have to start taxing and pouring money into the system now, while they are still in charge, if they want to see improvement in the situation by the time they need a nursing home.
Jerry
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bowtwi
I worked in nursing homes for a couple years. The patient to aide ratio averaged 10 patients to one aide. It was a light day if we were assigned only 8 or 9.
Every day every one of my patients received their full cares, including lotion rubbed into their backs, legs, arms, wherever... EVERY DAY.
I worked in the nursing home Teri Schiavo lived in until she went to Hospice Care. She was on a private-pay floor. The ambitious aides all wanted to work on that floor and I worked hard to get to be there. Every one of those patients got their cares to the best of our abilities. I was proud of where I worked.
I wouldn't work in a place that didn't treat the patients that well.
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Watered Garden
Bow, you're one in a million! If you had been around, my mom would have received excellent care. Most of the aides seemed to have little if any training. It was the saddest place I've ever seen outside of New Knoxville. This one elderly lady in a wheelchair wanted to spend time with me so desperately. She had been a professor at Ohio Wesleyan for many years and had a son in California who could care less. She died about a month after my mom. I was so sad that I was so completely torn up by my own grief that I couldn't help her.
She was very intelligent and though her body was giving out, her mind was still sharp and she knew how awful it was for her, but was helpless and unloved at the end.
For years, when I drove by that place, I'd turn my face the other way. Now I live in a different town.
If the time ever comes I would need one of those places, I think I'll inject an entire bottle of insulin instead.
WG
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Linda Z
I understand the anger and pain that come from a bad experience with long-term care. I've had those bad experiences with loved ones in nursing homes, too. As I said before, there are some poorly run nursing homes out there to be sure. But to portray them all as bad and greedy is unfair, especially to the people who work their butts off for low wages to provide good care.
I've been in a lot of nursing homes, both as a family member of someone living in one, and as a journalist. Some of these places were horrid, but in recent years, most have been excellent.
Given the financial difficulties they face, I'm surprised any nursing home can stay in business for long. They're extremely heavily regulated by gov't at all levels, and compliance with all those regs is costly. Medicare and Medicaid reimbursement frequently falls way short of what it costs to deliver care. Contrary to popular belief, the person in charge (CEO or whatever the title) is unlikely to be making big bucks. And,
unlike the facility where WG had the misfortune to place her mother, many nursing homes are nonprofits. They're not padding the wallets of owners like that doctor who referred her, either.
When nursing homes look for nurses' aides, who are the heart and soul of any long-term care facility, the wages they can afford to pay are on par with what McDonald's or Burger King pays. And these people work 10 times harder than they'd ever have to work at McDonald's. I've interviewed certified nursing assistants who've been on the job 20, 30 years. Not for the big bucks, but because they love it and because they worked for someone who treated them with respect. Appreciation by management goes a long way in easing the pain of a pitiful paycheck.
God bless 'em. I couldn't do it. Heavy lifting, poopy pants, dementia, disgruntled family members. It takes a special kind of person to do it right.
By the way, the same pi$$-poor care that some of you have described goes on in hospitals, too. I've seen it on several occasions when my loved ones have been hospitalized. Hospitals are understaffed and the staffs are overworked. In short, our healthcare system's broken and, IMO, needs a complete overhaul.
Back to nursing homes. There is some help available for those who face the difficult decision of having to place someone in a skilled nursing facility. The Web site at the link below gives a lot of good info about choosing a facility. There are other online resources for helping families choose, as well.
http://www.medicare.gov/NHCompare/Home.asp...bledStatus=True
And here's another tip: Don't just take someone's word for it. If you're looking for a nursing home for a loved one, you need to visit several, unannounced, and ask someone to show you around.
If the staff look totally stressed out and miserable, that's a bad sign. If residents are strapped into wheelchairs lined up in hallways, forget it. If it smells, leave. Bottom line is keep your eyes and ears open and trust your instincts. There are some great facilities out there. Settle for nothing less.
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rhino
Another note, medicare doesn't pay for nursing home stays, except for limited time periods after an injury of some sort. If you just need more care than you and loved ones can provide, it all comes out of your pocket. I'm not sure what private insurance policies you can get on that.
For the most part nursing homes are where you go to die. I'm talking about the skilled care level. If you are still in the assisted living category, there are some nice places with lots of activities that often seem to be a much better choice than staying home. I have an uncle that pays $80K / year to have full time help at his own home.
I would recommend encouragement for older folks to spend their money to get themselves the best quality possible, if they have the money. I have 3 uncles that could have had it much better toward the end, but pinched every penny as their nature was I guess. The extra money was left for ungrateful relatives that got a really nice chunk to throw around on things their benefactors never allowed for themselves. :(
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likeaneagle
I know in Maryland area, there are foks buying huge Victorians with about 6-8 bedrooms, and set them up for Assisted Living. THe requirements are minimal, staircases have to have a lift system plus firecode inspections. THe cost to convert is very minimal. It depends on level of care. THey get about 1000-1400 a month per senior. THe overhead is very low. THe folks who stay there always feel like thier in a home setting instead of a clinical setting...btw, the food is homeade too!!
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VeganXTC
Watered Garden, I am so sorry that you and your mother had to go through that experience. I have worked with CNAs, the helpers or aides, like you have described. They make everyone's job so much harder. Thankfully, where I work, if people like that are hired, they are fired very quickly.
I don't work in the business office of the nursing home, so I don't know all the laws concerning the running of a nursing home. And even if I did, laws are different from state to state. But I do know in all 50 states, the aides must be certified with their state, which means they had to have received training enough to satisfy their state's requirements. The state also sets the ratio of caregivers to resident. Nursing homes can and do supply more staff, but they must be careful not to provide too much, because the state also regulates how much a resident may be charged.
If a resident is accepted into our facility (acceptance is based on many things, the MOST important being, if we can provide quality of care) and then, for whatever reason, they are not able to make payments, the nursing home must absorb the cost. Medicare and Medicaid have employees whose sole job is to read charts of residents of nursing homes to find catch words which would make payment ineligible. If the resident is private pay, and the money runs out, again, we absorb the cost.
Certain cares, like therapy, are restricted by law. There is a cap on how much medicare and/or medicaid are willing to pay, so therapy stops, whether the resident could benefit or not.
The pay for new hires in my nursing home in the nursing department is: CNA's - 9.30, LPNs- 14.00, RNs-22.00. The McDonald's down the street hires at 10.00. If a CNA works double shifts at time and a half after 8 hours, for 10 days, she or he will make more money on that check than our administrator.
Now, there are many alternatives to nursing homes, which is a good thing. But for the nursing home, it means the residents are people who require the most care, or people who require a very short stay. It also means more empty beds, which is less money for the nursing home.
I think sometimes blame is placed on a nursing home when the situation is out of the facility's hands.
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watersedge
As far as i can tell Teri Shciavo got and received the best of care, and it was funded privately
from insurance and other sources.
most do not have the media exposure nor the financial backing to afford "high quality" care
the health care field has been a farce for decades and that includes nursing home and assissted living facilities, not to mention pharmecy products.
Money makes the world turn, the more you have the better off you are. When was the last time you saw a government official suffer the same fate as a common person? Isn't is supposed to be "We the people"?
Absolute power corrupts and that is what the medicinal field has become. No longer the keepers of life, just the bottom liners who count beans. Health care has been a joke for hard working folks like most of us, and a haven for those who know how to abuse...............do i smell kick-back here?
Where the money goes, there goes the care Where the heart goes there goes life
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