Answer to Kit's question... contract worker vs. gov. employee

[Zshot]

Kit asked a very good question:

“Is the government switching to contractors so they won't be liable for long-term employees and the seniority/tenure/health liability?”

The government is not going to come right out and say it. But, I believe the answer is yes.

Government Employee vs. Contract worker employee

A government employee actually works for the government. A contract worker employee works for a company who has a contract with the government.

1. This is a political “shell game”. When a politician says that they are ‘downsizing the government work force’, This could mean that they terminated the position held by the government employee and replace the position with a contract worker employee. Sometimes (but not always, nor is it required), this contract worker could be the same person who held that position, but no longer works for the government.

2. Government workers, usually have better benefits (to include health care insurance, retirement, sick leave, vacation time, union representation etc.). The contract workers benefits will vary from company to company. For example a company that has a lot of “high end” government contracts (such as Northrop Grumman or Anteon) will have better benefits (and pay) that the company that handles the janitorial contracts.

3. Most government contracts (for services) are “one year” contracts with built in “option years” as part of the contract. The government can (and usually does) renew the option years up to 4 option years (for a total of 5 years). Then the government must put the contract out for other company’s bid for that contract. If Company “A” does not have the contract renewed with government and company “B” gets the contract. Company “B” has the choice of hiring the now displaced employee’s from company “A”. Because of this process, it is possible that a person who has performed the same job (with various companies) for the past 17 years, has no more seniority or pay than a person just starting out in the workforce (1st job) with less than a year experience.

4. It is easier to get rid of a contract worker employee than a government.

5. Contract workers sometimes (depending on the job) get more take home pay than government employees. Not because they are “worth more”, but they don’t have as much job security nor (usually) benefits as government employees.

6. From my experience, government workers tend to be better at their jobs than contract worker employees. Government employees usually have a long-term vested interest in knowing their job and being good at it. Contract worker employees tend to have a greater turn over rate.

7. The government thinks that having contract workers will save the government money in the long term because of retirement benefits.

8. Little or no short term savings by having contract workers. Each company that has a government contract keeps a percentage of the amount of the contract to cover there “overhead” as well as making a profit.

9. The companies that are awarded government gain the most by having contract worker employees.

10. The people who work as contract worker employees as well as the displaced government employee are the ones who lose the most in this process.

11. In my biased opinion, another loser in this process is the taxpayer. They are not getting a better value by having contract worker employees vs. government employees. And yes, you will find some outstanding contract worker employees as well as finding a few government employees who are slugs. In general, I think the government employee is a better value.

[vickles]

Zshot, I know this may sound kind of a stupid but I know businesses run this way...if a government worker is valued and they do get a contract in why can't they transfer the government worker to another dept. within the government? It would make sense if they are determined to save money for that one job. And still keep the valued employee.

[Steve!]

Vickles -

Many times, employees that are displaced DO get the option of transferring to a different department.

But that is highly dependent on a job opening and the employee's qualifications.

[Zshot]

Vickles,

The government does try to find jobs for displaced employees. Sometimes there are no jobs available that they are qualified for...

Sometimes, these employees decide to try to work for the company that gets the contract (sometimes thinking that they have job security).

Sometimes companies and the government lose sight of value when they only look at the "bottom line".

[ex70sHouston]

quote:

Originally posted by Zshot:

6. From my experience, government workers tend to be better at their jobs than contract worker employees. Government employees usually have a long-term vested interest in knowing their job and being good at it. Contract worker employees tend to have a greater turn over rate.

While this is is true in many cases the fact of the matter is that the privatization of many military funtions has saved the government millions os dollars.

The one area that this is not true is the military. The problem here is that the military cannot train and retain the number of people required to do the job.

I was offered a job by Brown and Root in October. I would be on a base in Afganistan working on air conditioning and heating. $84,000 a year of which 80k was tax free. All housing and food was paid. Never have to leave the post. Minimul danger.

I was offered the job because the military needs its men and women on combat roles.

My father-in-law use to work in civil service for the air force rebuilding jet engines. 25% of the people did 75% of the work. Yes a private company would have fixed the problem.

[Kit Sober]

When Ronald Reagan was President, I saw in the federal employment office a wonderful poster thanking the civil servants.

It used to be a sincere company slogan, "Our greatest asset is our employees."

And it was a true slogan and a successful company that believed so.

I am fortunate to work now for a casino that operates as thougyh it's greatest asset is its people.

Many of Nevada casinos (not the mafia ones) were built by owners who took really good care of their people.

Stateline/Silver Smith, with the smiling waving cowboy (used to be on the Nevada/Utah border town of Wendover NV), is a good example.

I now am getting to know some of those people who worked with them then. And it's a privilege to do so.

What happened with the Stateline/Silver Smith, and others: The son took over, abandoned the good people who worked for his folks, and destroyed the place.

Stateline/Silver Smith story has a somewhat happy ending because Peppermill bought the Silver Smith and hired many of the employees.

Peppermill gave them full benefits as a "transfer" -- i.e. if they worked for Stateline/Silver Smith for 18 years, they received 18-year seniority/benefits when they came to work at Peppermill Casinos Inc.

Kit

[Galen]

vickles:

"Zshot, I know this may sound kind of a stupid but I know businesses run this way...if a government worker is valued and they do get a contract in why can't they transfer the government worker to another dept. within the government?"

My wife is a federal employeee.

Any federal employee [after working for one year] can do a lateral transfer to any other job opening.

Employees commonly scan through the OPM listings, looking for interesting openings.

If you are currently a 'X', then any 'X' opening across the street or across the nation can be yours. If you are a 'X', but you want to be a 'Y', then you print out the job requirements, and you work on them. Once to fit the minimum requirements for the job, then you can apply for that opening. Again the opening can be in your town, or in any nation that you desire to move to. Through-out all job transfers, you maintain and build your senority. If a job is 'riffed', meaning your job position is closed, then you are given the option of transfering to any other opening that you qualify for. After being riffed, if you go into a lower job, you will maintain you previous salary level and you will continue to make step-increases at that previous level. All 'riffed' employees must be used to fill openings first. Then and only after all riffed employees are working again, then any other government employee who wants to transfer can shift into that opening. This is all before the job can be filled from an application from outside the system.

The work to fill all openings from within first.

I have known many guys who would get hired as a gate guard, work and attend training to get a whole listing of skills. Then put in for lateral transfers to other jobs. Either the same kind of job, but in a different state where you would rather be, or on the same facility but in a different department. I worked with one fed police officer, who got his license as an electrician, he found an opening at the same base in it's building maintenance office, and one Friday he worked the shift as a police officer and turned in his weapons, the following Monday he went to work one block away as an electrician. He maintained his 10 years of senority, and at that time he had only another 10 years to go to finish his second pension [he was already a military retiree, from before I knew him].

My wife is currently a salesclerk in a commissary. She has already won a federal lawsuit against them for sexual-herassment [she was a produce grocer]. She has applied for a job as a forest ranger, truck driver, and other things, just looking over the listing at other things that she might like to try for a while.

The civil service arena is great.

:-)

[Zshot]

I should point out that my experience with civil service is with the Department of Defense.

I agree that there are some things that is in the governments best interest. And there are things that I think that it is in he best interest of the government to have federal employee.

From what I have seen, contractors have proven to be the best choice for "maintaince" type contracts (heating & air conditioning, plumbing, janitorial, cooks, mechanics, transportation, electrical, computer maintaince, network adminstration and maintaince, etc...) Federal employees tend to be better at Administrative (clecical, personnal, contracting, budget, accounting, supply, finance, management, where ever institutional knowledge is needed, etc...)

I like being a government employee.

[Galen]

Walk into any government ran DMV and you will see good examples of why some things do not work well when ran by the government. On the other hand, I have been in DMVs that were contracted out to bidding contractors. [Washington state]. It was quick and smooth. No lines, no waiting.

If a company is doing something, and their personal profit margin is riding on the bottom-line and customer-satisfaction; then they can run an office for very cheap, but very effiecintly. No government agency can do that. With Union coffee-breaks, sick-time, mental-health-days, "you can't make me clean that window, it is not in my job description", "I dont care if someone made a mess in the restroom, you have to wait for janitor to come tonight to clean it". Government ran offices tend to 'feel' like government offices. So long as everyone does their 'job' [as described by their PD] then they are just waiting for the years to tick by and their pension to kick in. Because it is terribly difficult to fire anyone in civil-service.

:-)

[vickles]

Galen,

Isn't it weird how we can experience something and our views of it can be totally different?

I grew up in Washington state and the DMV's I had been in, they had always been rude. Now when I lived in Iowa it was totally different, their philosopy was to treat their customers with a smile. Minnesota is pretty much the same as Iowa.

[Galen]

vickles:

"Isn't it weird how we can experience something and our views of it can be totally different?"

hmm, okay.

I was stationed there 1991-1997, and I was told that they had recently shifted to being a private company contracted to do those functions.

When were you there? and was it government ran?

:-)

[vickles]

I grew up in WA state, and in my adult years have lived there back and forth. The last time I went to get a driver's license was the year of 1994. So it must have been privatized during that time.

[Galen]

hmm washington state; Lots of counters with touch-screen computers, walk up to one select what you want. It displays your information, correct it, press 'done', and soon a clerk calls you to review and make the transaction official.

I remember going in for a new license, the test was all on computer, and it seemed that there was never any lines.

Here in Connecticut, we routinely have lines wrapping outside the DMV building. Routinely if I go there, I will spend the next 3 hours waiting.

That and commonly I can not get done anything in just one trip.

You want to register a vehicle in your name, but your insurance card lists both you and your wife as being insured [the names on your insurance card and the registration must match, so off to the insurance office to make a new card with just your name].

Or I buy a new car, and they ask did you go by the town hall first to clear the old car off their tax-rolls, show me proof [so off to find the town hall].

A couple times now they will change which town they will assign to tax me on a car, so first I have to find what town they say is taxing me, then find it's town hall. I have had to pay back-taxes and fines, because I had not paid annual taxes on such car [why am I paying taxes to this town, I have never lived here, and why do I owe back-taxes if I have never heard of this town before?].

In Ct, every year the DMV sends out a list of all registered cars, to the various town halls, so they can assign taxes. Those town halls may send out tax-bills, but they dont have to. The DMV does not send notices when you sale or junk a car, so the towns will continue taxing you for a car until you find that town and prove to their clerk that you dont own the car anymore.

If you buy a car, then soon are transfered out of state, rest assured that some goofy little town will be taxing you and fining you until the day [decades later] that you return to Ct. Once you fall behind in your taxes then the towns will notify DMV, and you can no longer register a car, or renew your license.

I have lived through this.

:-)