Read it more carefully. The law of liberty is not contrasted with the law of Moses, it is contrasted with the 'law of sin in my members, ie, the law of sin & death.
All of us are free and in bondage, we simply choose our freedom & our bondage:
Rom. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield
yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye
are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death,
or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the
servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the
heart that form of doctrine which was delivered
you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became
the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of
the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded
your members servants to uncleanness and to
iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your
members servants to righteousness unto
holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye
were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things
whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of
those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and
become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto
holiness, and the end everlasting life.
To say one is 'free' or walks in liberty is, in itself, meaningless. Your choices give your liberty meaning.
...It was Adam and Eve that when they lost the image of God they could no longer shine in his image so they shone in their own wisdom...
I have to disagree with you on the image of God being lost – Genesis 9 clearly indicates it's still there after the fall of man:
Genesis 9: 4-7 NIV
4 "But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. 5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man.
6 "Whoever sheds the blood of man,
by man shall his blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made man.
7 As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it."
I have been writing in blogs for over ten years on the internet.
Happy anniversary.
I have had many unkind things said to me...
I've had a few. If I'd had a LOT, I might wonder if perhaps I was inviting trouble.
I do not let them bother me in the least...
You might-they might be warning signs.
I just go on and speak the word deeper and even more and eventually they get the message.
So, they can agree with you or they can be wrong. Nice.
That I am not one of those wimpy Christians that lives by the law but I live by the law of liberty.
Insult your fellow Christians for whom Christ died, go ahead. Christ wouldn't...
I have long ago grown into the full measure of the stature of Christ.
You've "arrived." Congrats. I haven't gotten to where I intend to get. You must be one of
those super-Christians with the red cape and blue longjohns.
This FULL measure is the law of liberty
Relying on vpw shackles your understanding. I shall explain below.
The more than abundant life hinges on the law of liberty
Jesus spoke about life more abundant. (John 10:10.) When you add a word to the word of God, do you still
have the word of God? Even vpw said you don't....and you added a word....
Our salvation hinges on this liberty
Our salvation hinges on our saviour.
Did God change or did man change?
False dilemma. God doesn't change, and man is too stupid to learn.
I hope this has helped in your understanding of how to view the Gospels.
Oh, I'm SO enlightened now!
We see the change from man's wisdom to God's wisdom.
Where? You announced we see it, but didn't go to a verse.
Along with this change comes first the practice of liberty [in Christ] and then the doctrine of liberty [in Paul].
THIS IS "THE WAY"...
JESUS CHRIST is "THE WAY", and all other "ways" are pretenders.
I'd like to take this opportunity to address an error concerning our liberty in Christ, and how badly-mangled
the Bible's teaching on this was when we were learning.
vpw said-right in pfal- that if you love God and you love your neighbor,
"YOU CAN DO AS YOU FOOL WELL PLEASE."
I submit that the point of this was to de-emphasize loving God and loving your neighbor,
since that's the only way you can do what vpw REALLY wanted to teach,
"YOU CAN DO AS YOU FOOL WELL PLEASE."
Let's see what Jesus said on the subject, shall we?
KJV.
Luke 10:25-27.
"25And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself."
Here we see the first part of what we said-"love God, and love your neighbor as yourself."
Now let's see the SECOND part-when Jesus gives an example of what that means.
Luke 10:28-37.
"28And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
29But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
30And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
36Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise."
Jesus gave an example of loving your neighbor-funny how he specified it was about NEIGHBOR,
and not LOVE.
The priest and the Levite in Jesus' example, I suspect, offered a prayer for the man who was beaten and robbed.
They offered the standard twi level of compassion.
"Give them The Word, pray for them, but if they have a physical need, tell them to suck it up and make
sure they attend pfal on time."
Then the priest and Levite proceeded to "do as they full well pleased."
The Samaritan-a fellow of questionable religious knowledge (unlike the priest and Levite)- was the example
Jesus used- a man who didn't consider the personal cost to himself (although he obviously could afford
what he did without impoverishing himself) but instead took compassionate ACTION to him.
He spent his own TIME and his own MONEY, and had no expectation of receiving any favours in return.
Jesus at no point advocated "doing as you fool well please", unlike vpw.
=======
Ok, let's suppose we can blow off Jesus' words, like we learned in twi, and only focus on the Epistles.
"They're addressed to us! We can follow THEM and blow off the 'previous administration'!"
In Romans 14, we see specifics "that have your name on them", as vpw said.
Romans 14:13-21.
"13Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
16Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
17For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak."
We have liberty in Christ, but if we think "do as you fool well please" is what it means, we don't UNDERSTAND
the liberty we have in Christ. If our freedom allows us to put a stumblingblock in front of a brother in Christ,
we are not to use that freedom. A free Christian is FREER TO DO GOOD, but NOT FREER TO DO EVIL,
or to do that which God says not to do. A Christian CAN do these things, but a Christian IS NOT to do these
things. Out of love, he voluntarily limits his freedom.
Is this bondage? Is this legalism?
Is this being "a wimpy Christian who lives by the law?"
NO.
This is doing what God said to do.
Even our liberty to eat foods offered to idols has limitations.
I Corinthians 8:1-13.
1Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
2And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
3But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
4As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
7Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
8But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
9But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
10For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
11And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
12But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
13Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend."
So, out of love for God and brethren, we are to use our freedom to FREELY CHOOSE to limit our actions,
to help our brethren.
So, can we at least make fun of "wimpy Christians", and turn aside? If we have to limit ourselves,
can we just leave them alone after that? After all, someone once claimed
"Weakness always brings down strength."
Sadly for the "macho" Christian, NO.
Romans 15:1-3.
"1We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
2Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.
3For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me."
One may contrast that with the explanation of what to do when our brethren are
offended back in pfal. vpw himself spoke to the effect of DISREGARDING those offended.
After all, he said, if one person didn't like my tie, another might not like my vest,
and at that rate, "pretty soon we'd get down to bare facts."
It sounds soooo CLEVER, but if I had to choose between SOUNDING CLEVER
and SPEAKING GOD'S WORD, I shall continue to be clumsy and awkward,
Read it more carefully. The law of liberty is not contrasted with the law of Moses, it is contrasted with the 'law of sin in my members, ie, the law of sin & death.
All of us are free and in bondage, we simply choose our freedom & our bondage:
To say one is 'free' or walks in liberty is, in itself, meaningless. Your choices give your liberty meaning.
Galatians contasts the law of liberty with the law of Moses, culminating with Gal. 4:30-5:1 &7--'Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not childfren of the bondwoman, but of the free. Stand fast therefor in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage (the law of Moses). For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.'
Galatians contasts the law of liberty with the law of Moses, culminating with Gal. 4:30-5:1 &7--'Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not childfren of the bondwoman, but of the free. Stand fast therefor in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage (the law of Moses). For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.'
(highlighting above is mine)
Jean,
That is something that really ticks me off with TWI (and some former TWI) people...when you add something to scripture.
I don't see anywhere in the above that has (the law of Moses) written in it. So why do you insert it? Shoot, the context of the verse is not even talking about the Mosaic law, it's talking about circumcision...in light of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael (who all pre-dated Moses by a year or two).
Frankly, as to the subject of the "law of liberty," the phrase is used exactly twice in the Bible. James 1:25 and 2:12. If you check the context of those two verses out, it doesn't say what (as I recall) we were taught in TWI. It talks about the importance of the corporal works of mercy (see Jas 2:2 - 2:6, 2:16, etc.), and, in essence, the need to obey all of the decalogue (see Jas 2:10). Galatians talks in large part about the same points...the importance of interior conversion, as opposed to mere exterior compliance (spirit vs. mere flesh). But neither give authority to Christians to go and do whatever they want. Nowhere are we relieved of requirement to act in accord with the decalogue. In fact, we have to live toward our neighbors with a higher standard.
In this regard, I love James 2:13 For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy; yet mercy triumphs over judgment. When I read this, I remember all those times that we were told not to feed the poor, but just give them the Word. I thank God for His mercy toward me, for all those times when I was in TWI and I could have helped somebody...
Sorry if I sound harsh, but it's just something that irks me when I see it happen. The venom is aimed at the general habit...not at you as a person. So please don't take it like I'm yelling at you. I'm not. I'm yelling at the habit (which all of us have been guilty of).
I have to disagree with you on the image of God being lost – Genesis 9 clearly indicates it's still there after the fall of man:
Genesis 9: 4-7 NIV
4 "But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. 5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man.
6 "Whoever sheds the blood of man,
by man shall his blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made man.
7 As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it."
The spirit was lost by the ruling kingdoms of the world but God revealed his way of faith to those who believed.
This is why we have the faith of Jesus Christ.
Without this faith there can be no liberty.
Christ is "The Way" (to God) because he walked in liberty.
The "way of holiness" is the law of liberty and faith...
By faith Abraham... Faith is the red thread of Christ.
Wow thats what it says?
Seems I got a bad bible. Not printed like that in mine.
This is to you Dr.
I think I'm going to write a version add a few words change
a few. And just for the heck of it take some out.
Maybe even misspell lots of it.
So when can I join your church?
How much does your class cost?
It is not what is on the surface but the meaning we derive from the checks and balances... We do not only look at where a word has been used before but the "context" also...
The spirit was lost by the ruling kingdoms of the world but God revealed his way of faith to those who believed.
This is why we have the faith of Jesus Christ.
Without this faith there can be no liberty.
Christ is "The Way" (to God) because he walked in liberty.
The "way of holiness" is the law of liberty and faith...
By faith Abraham... Faith is the red thread of Christ...
It might help if you would provide scriptural evidence for your assertion. What you’re saying still does not convince me that man lost the image of God. Your reply is confusing. Matter of fact, your rhetoric sounds like bits and pieces of a typical VPW sermon – instead of specifically addressing my point, you plug in a VPW-like phrase with spiritual sounding terms and double-talk your way to a totally different point.
I really don’t mean to offend – just thought I’d point out something about GSC. This is a DISCUSSION forum – not anyone’s personal pulpit. You sound like you’re preaching – I came here to discuss. I’m giving you the benefit of a doubt that you mean well – but it comes across as insulting when you don’t talk WITH people but talk AT them. It would be easier for me to understand your thinking if there was real communication happening on this thread…Anyway…we could start over again - if you’re game you can try a direct reply to my post # 29 where I say Genesis 9: 4-7 indicates man still has the image of God.
I'd like to take this opportunity to address an error concerning our liberty in Christ, and how badly-mangled
the Bible's teaching on this was when we were learning.
vpw said-right in pfal- that if you love God and you love your neighbor,
"YOU CAN DO AS YOU FOOL WELL PLEASE."
I submit that the point of this was to de-emphasize loving God and loving your neighbor,
since that's the only way you can do what vpw REALLY wanted to teach,
"YOU CAN DO AS YOU FOOL WELL PLEASE."
Let's see what Jesus said on the subject, shall we?
KJV.
Luke 10:25-27.
"25And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself."
Here we see the first part of what we said-"love God, and love your neighbor as yourself."
Now let's see the SECOND part-when Jesus gives an example of what that means.
Luke 10:28-37.
"28And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
29But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
30And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
36Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise."
Jesus gave an example of loving your neighbor-funny how he specified it was about NEIGHBOR,
and not LOVE.
The priest and the Levite in Jesus' example, I suspect, offered a prayer for the man who was beaten and robbed.
They offered the standard twi level of compassion.
"Give them The Word, pray for them, but if they have a physical need, tell them to suck it up and make
sure they attend pfal on time."
Then the priest and Levite proceeded to "do as they full well pleased."
The Samaritan-a fellow of questionable religious knowledge (unlike the priest and Levite)- was the example
Jesus used- a man who didn't consider the personal cost to himself (although he obviously could afford
what he did without impoverishing himself) but instead took compassionate ACTION to him.
He spent his own TIME and his own MONEY, and had no expectation of receiving any favours in return.
Jesus at no point advocated "doing as you fool well please", unlike vpw.
=======
Ok, let's suppose we can blow off Jesus' words, like we learned in twi, and only focus on the Epistles.
"They're addressed to us! We can follow THEM and blow off the 'previous administration'!"
In Romans 14, we see specifics "that have your name on them", as vpw said.
Romans 14:13-21.
"13Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
16Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
17For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak."
We have liberty in Christ, but if we think "do as you fool well please" is what it means, we don't UNDERSTAND
the liberty we have in Christ. If our freedom allows us to put a stumblingblock in front of a brother in Christ,
we are not to use that freedom. A free Christian is FREER TO DO GOOD, but NOT FREER TO DO EVIL,
or to do that which God says not to do. A Christian CAN do these things, but a Christian IS NOT to do these
things. Out of love, he voluntarily limits his freedom.
Is this bondage? Is this legalism?
Is this being "a wimpy Christian who lives by the law?"
NO.
This is doing what God said to do.
Even our liberty to eat foods offered to idols has limitations.
I Corinthians 8:1-13.
1Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
2And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
3But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
4As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
7Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
8But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
9But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
10For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
11And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
12But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
13Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend."
So, out of love for God and brethren, we are to use our freedom to FREELY CHOOSE to limit our actions,
to help our brethren.
So, can we at least make fun of "wimpy Christians", and turn aside? If we have to limit ourselves,
can we just leave them alone after that? After all, someone once claimed
"Weakness always brings down strength."
Sadly for the "macho" Christian, NO.
Romans 15:1-3.
"1We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
2Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.
3For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me."
One may contrast that with the explanation of what to do when our brethren are
offended back in pfal. vpw himself spoke to the effect of DISREGARDING those offended.
After all, he said, if one person didn't like my tie, another might not like my vest,
and at that rate, "pretty soon we'd get down to bare facts."
It sounds soooo CLEVER, but if I had to choose between SOUNDING CLEVER
and SPEAKING GOD'S WORD, I shall continue to be clumsy and awkward,
It might help if you would provide scriptural evidence for your assertion. What you’re saying still does not convince me that man lost the image of God. Your reply is confusing. Matter of fact, your rhetoric sounds like bits and pieces of a typical VPW sermon – instead of specifically addressing my point, you plug in a VPW-like phrase with spiritual sounding terms and double-talk your way to a totally different point.
I really don’t mean to offend – just thought I’d point out something about GSC. This is a DISCUSSION forum – not anyone’s personal pulpit. You sound like you’re preaching – I came here to discuss. I’m giving you the benefit of a doubt that you mean well – but it comes across as insulting when you don’t talk WITH people but talk AT them. It would be easier for me to understand your thinking if there was real communication happening on this thread…Anyway…we could start over again - if you’re game you can try a direct reply to my post # 29 where I say Genesis 9: 4-7 indicates man still has the image of God.
Who accuses those of the very thing they themselves do? This is a doctrinal discussion of God not the price of tea in China.
Word Wolf you can have the law of sin and death and see where "charity" leads you and I will take the law of liberty and see where charity leads me.
For what the law could not do in that is was weak and "wimpy"...
:)
Are you saying we are NOT free from the law and man is justified by the deeds of the law once again?
The law of liberty and the law of sin and death are diametrically opposed. You can't have it both ways... Do animals make laws? Only the "law of liberty" can save the world.
I have many students on the internet and I will tell you I am ashamed to bring them here because they understand the law of liberty more then the lot of you. Those who never knew Wierwille.
Until you get into fellowship with the true God I will not even link them to you.
I don't want anyone poisoning their minds with "Way" hate. They have enough hate of the old man nature that they have to struggle as it is to renew their minds to Christ's walk of the law of liberty. Jesus Christ was a "friend to sinners"... he did not mark and avoid them... Shame on you who do not hear the voice of charity for being so gullible as to forsake the walk of Christ for the law again. Your shame will be imposed by the very law consciousness you impose on others.
Now I have explained this and just because it does not agree with your legalistic "doctrine" you have encased in stone does not mean that I am the one who is errant.
Who shall decide which laws are still in effect?
All of the laws are embodied in the law of liberty which is simply love for God and others through the spirit and not love earned by the works of the flesh. (lest men should boast) Thankfulness of the spirit is the only power than can manifest true charity and the works and deeds of the spirit.
I will explain this again and again and if you keep going back to the law then I will consider a spiritual depletion and blinded minds which cannot believe the truth.
You need to see liberty in light of the perfection of the spirit.
The charity of the law of liberty over the law of sin and death.
For the law of liberty is what the Bible amply teaches and you have magnified a few scriptures of deeds and unclear legal jargon to simply revert back to the law.
The purpose of forgiveness of "sins" in the Church is for when people revert back to the law and have broken fellowship with God and the the perfect law of liberty.
There is a difference between works to gain righteousness and works because you are already righteous. That is the balance presented by James, and Paul and all the New Testament writers. We are not under the Mosaic Law, but we are bound by a higher law - the Law of Christ. Jesus taught it in the Semon on the Mount, James elaborated on it inhis epistle, and Paul spoke of it as well. Love fulfills the Law.
To DrWearWord,
As T-Bone said, it would help if you quoted Scripture instead of VPW-like cliche's. Looking back over your posts I noticed that you simply expounded your doctrine (most of which sounds like PFAL revisited) with NO Scriptural backup. We have all had PFAL or some version of it (most of us anyway) and that's why this discussion forum is here - we are rethinking what we were taught in order to determine if it is truly of God or not. The Scripture must be our standard, and to that end if you want to prove a point, please give "chapter and verse."
There is a difference between works to gain righteousness and works because you are already righteous. That is the balance presented by James, and Paul and all the New Testament writers. We are not under the Mosaic Law, but we are bound by a higher law - the Law of Christ. Jesus taught it in the Semon on the Mount, James elaborated on it inhis epistle, and Paul spoke of it as well. Love fulfills the Law.
To DrWearWord,
As T-Bone said, it would help if you quoted Scripture instead of VPW-like cliche's. Looking back over your posts I noticed that you simply expounded your doctrine (most of which sounds like PFAL revisited) with NO Scriptural backup. We have all had PFAL or some version of it (most of us anyway) and that's why this discussion forum is here - we are rethinking what we were taught in order to determine if it is truly of God or not. The Scripture must be our standard, and to that end if you want to prove a point, please give "chapter and verse."
I can quote scriptures but it has been a breath of fresh air to not have go into as much detail as I have had to in other forums.
Also when you see others heading to walk into the path of train you simply save them and yank them out of the way, BECAUSE YOU LOVE....
You know I can back up my doctrine scripturally for we all are exceedingly proficient in the words of the word.
My usage of certain words should bring to mind the doctrines that I use to back up my position.
Nothing can lay law at the feet of the spirit for it has already been judged (past tense) and it is a new birth of "incorruptible" seed.
As you can see I have had the trust in the spirit of the true God to go further than Doctor did with liberty..
Furthermore his own occasions for the flesh could not darkens his own spirit.
Only his renewed mind fellowship with God.
For law is the occasion of the flesh.
Do not let liberty and the liberty of others lead you back to the law.
For law is the only occasion of the flesh there is left, for the spirit cannot sin.
Now see who's doctrines have been turned upside right.
These strings that have bound us are the strings of the laws.
Who accuses those of the very thing they themselves do? This is a doctrinal discussion of God not the price of tea in China.
My, you have a very short attention span...or maybe a little problem comprehending sentences that are not written in TWI-speak [commonly referred to as plain English]…It looks like a one sided discussion on this thread – you preach and rant….someone challenges you on a point…you preach, rant, accuse and insult.
...I have many students on the internet and I will tell you I am ashamed to bring them here because they understand the law of liberty more then the lot of you. Those who never knew Wierwille.
Until you get into fellowship with the true God I will not even link them to you...
.
I'm not surprised you have many students on the Internet. There's a sucker born every minute. Heck, I used to believe VPW was the man of God for the universe a long time ago – that image is forever soiled of course by seeing what he was really like when I was in the Corps. There's a vast difference between his Christian façade that was paraded around for the public and his actual character that schemed and connived to feed his sexual perversions. But alas, I speak a foreign language to someone poisoned by pride and arrogance.
...Until you get into fellowship with the true God I will not even link them to you.
I don't want anyone poisoning their minds with "Way" hate. They have enough hate of the old man nature that they have to struggle as it is to renew their minds to Christ's walk of the law of liberty... .
I hate to burst your bubble – but your poisonous doctrine is showing. Better not let any of your students come to GSC – we wouldn't want them to see that mean-spirited two-faced "charity of the law of liberty" of their teacher, now would we.
My, you have a very short attention span...or maybe a little problem comprehending sentences that are not written in TWI-speak [commonly referred to as plain English]…It looks like a one sided discussion on this thread – you preach and rant….someone challenges you on a point…you preach, rant, accuse and insult.
I'm not surprised you have many students on the Internet. There's a sucker born every minute. Heck, I used to believe VPW was the man of God for the universe a long time ago – that image is forever soiled of course by seeing what he was really like when I was in the Corps. There's a vast difference between his Christian façade that was paraded around for the public and his actual character that schemed and connived to feed his sexual perversions. But alas, I speak a foreign language to someone poisoned by pride and arrogance.
I hate to burst your bubble – but your poisonous doctrine is showing. Better not let any of your students come to GSC – we wouldn't want them to see that mean-spirited two-faced "charity of the law of liberty" of their teacher, now would we.
Now this is in response to YOUR post not only my own... You have simply just disagreed and not given one shred of logic other than it is your opinion. You know what they say about opinions...
PROVE TO ME THAT WE ARE STILL UNDER THE LAW "BIBLICALLY..."
Or "shut your damned mouth." As VP aptly once said. :)
My students are still walking along their own way from the hell that "out in the world Christianity" has subjected them to...
I do not have to apologize for or defend the truth it is error and lies that makes your files thick...
I just dust my feet off and walk on it is you who is holding others to standards that you yourself do not adhere to..
For ALL were judged sinful under the law...
And the natural man cannot please God...
Do we have to go back to PFAL and sit, stand walk?
Acts 21:14
And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will [law] of the Lord be done.
Comment: We cannot serve two masters, law and the law of liberty...
We first received the image of God conditionally..
Then unconditionally.
1Pe 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible [conditional] seed, but of incorruptible [unconditional seed], by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1Co 15:54
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
The law was weak because no law can produce righteousness. The Galatians were trying to get righteousness by performance of the law (their own righteousness, not the righteousness of God through faith). The law was slavery in the sense that no amount of obedience would produce righteousness and it only provided temporary atonement. We were freed from this slavery. That is the liberty. Paul goes on to say that that doesn’t mean freedom to sin.
The law was weak because no law can produce righteousness. The Galatians were trying to get righteousness by performance of the law (their own righteousness, not the righteousness of God through faith). The law was slavery in the sense that no amount of obedience would produce righteousness and it only provided temporary atonement. We were freed from this slavery. That is the liberty. Paul goes on to say that that doesn’t mean freedom to sin.
Romans 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Comment: People are still seeking the righteousness of God in the flesh and not the spirit.
For it is law that brings knowledge of sin that feeds condemnation that leads to the sins of the flesh..
For the flesh can still sin but the flesh is not who the person identifies with but the person is identified with the spirit in God's eyes.
The natural man cannot please God and the person of the spirit cannot displease God...
2Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust [law/flesh].
Now this is in response to YOUR post not only my own... You have simply just disagreed and not given one shred of logic other than it is your opinion. You know what they say about opinions...
PROVE TO ME THAT WE ARE STILL UNDER THE LAW "BIBLICALLY..."
Or "shut your damned mouth." As VP aptly once said. :)
My students are still walking along their own way from the hell that "out in the world Christianity" has subjected them to...
I do not have to apologize for or defend the truth it is error and lies that makes your files thick...
I just dust my feet off and walk on it is you who is holding others to standards that you yourself do not adhere to..
For ALL were judged sinful under the law...
And the natural man cannot please God...
Do we have to go back to PFAL and sit, stand walk?
...
Yo, pay attention! I haven't been arguing with you about the law – didn't you read my post # 29?
You can go back to PFAL – it sure is a step backwards. Your posts read like one who has fully mastered PFAL gobbledygook. There's no hope of having a normal conversation here – not when PFAL incoherency is on the loose. You know...that might be a lot of your problem - using PFAL to interpret the Bible.
"I have no friends when it comes to God's word..."
Hmm…yes that's quite obvious by your posts…That's okay…my Lord Jesus was known as the friend of sinners. I'd rather have Him as a friend anyway.
We first received the image of God conditionally..
Then unconditionally.
1Pe 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible [conditional] seed, but of incorruptible [unconditional seed], by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever...
.
Confusing theology, to say the least…equating man's physical body with the image of God. Rather than reviewing PFAL nonsense – try reading a systematic theology by a real scholar. I don't think VPW's PFAL book would fare too well in the real world – being how he plagiarized just about everything in it and did an excellent job of twisting Scripture to push erroneous doctrines. His book only goes over big in select circles where people have turned their brain off and sedated their conscience.
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TheEvan
Read it more carefully. The law of liberty is not contrasted with the law of Moses, it is contrasted with the 'law of sin in my members, ie, the law of sin & death.
All of us are free and in bondage, we simply choose our freedom & our bondage:
To say one is 'free' or walks in liberty is, in itself, meaningless. Your choices give your liberty meaning.
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WordWolf
That would have been an issue if the word "homologeo" appeared in that passage.
I was speaking of the difference between the CONCEPTS.
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T-Bone
I have to disagree with you on the image of God being lost – Genesis 9 clearly indicates it's still there after the fall of man:
Genesis 9: 4-7 NIV
4 "But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. 5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man.
6 "Whoever sheds the blood of man,
by man shall his blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made man.
7 As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it."
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WordWolf
WordWolf replies in boldface.
I'd like to take this opportunity to address an error concerning our liberty in Christ, and how badly-mangled
the Bible's teaching on this was when we were learning.
vpw said-right in pfal- that if you love God and you love your neighbor,
"YOU CAN DO AS YOU FOOL WELL PLEASE."
I submit that the point of this was to de-emphasize loving God and loving your neighbor,
since that's the only way you can do what vpw REALLY wanted to teach,
"YOU CAN DO AS YOU FOOL WELL PLEASE."
Let's see what Jesus said on the subject, shall we?
KJV.
Luke 10:25-27.
"25And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself."
Here we see the first part of what we said-"love God, and love your neighbor as yourself."
Now let's see the SECOND part-when Jesus gives an example of what that means.
Luke 10:28-37.
"28And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
29But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
30And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
36Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise."
Jesus gave an example of loving your neighbor-funny how he specified it was about NEIGHBOR,
and not LOVE.
The priest and the Levite in Jesus' example, I suspect, offered a prayer for the man who was beaten and robbed.
They offered the standard twi level of compassion.
"Give them The Word, pray for them, but if they have a physical need, tell them to suck it up and make
sure they attend pfal on time."
Then the priest and Levite proceeded to "do as they full well pleased."
The Samaritan-a fellow of questionable religious knowledge (unlike the priest and Levite)- was the example
Jesus used- a man who didn't consider the personal cost to himself (although he obviously could afford
what he did without impoverishing himself) but instead took compassionate ACTION to him.
He spent his own TIME and his own MONEY, and had no expectation of receiving any favours in return.
Jesus at no point advocated "doing as you fool well please", unlike vpw.
=======
Ok, let's suppose we can blow off Jesus' words, like we learned in twi, and only focus on the Epistles.
"They're addressed to us! We can follow THEM and blow off the 'previous administration'!"
In Romans 14, we see specifics "that have your name on them", as vpw said.
Romans 14:13-21.
"13Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
16Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
17For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak."
We have liberty in Christ, but if we think "do as you fool well please" is what it means, we don't UNDERSTAND
the liberty we have in Christ. If our freedom allows us to put a stumblingblock in front of a brother in Christ,
we are not to use that freedom. A free Christian is FREER TO DO GOOD, but NOT FREER TO DO EVIL,
or to do that which God says not to do. A Christian CAN do these things, but a Christian IS NOT to do these
things. Out of love, he voluntarily limits his freedom.
Is this bondage? Is this legalism?
Is this being "a wimpy Christian who lives by the law?"
NO.
This is doing what God said to do.
Even our liberty to eat foods offered to idols has limitations.
I Corinthians 8:1-13.
1Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
2And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
3But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
4As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
7Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
8But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
9But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
10For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
11And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
12But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
13Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend."
So, out of love for God and brethren, we are to use our freedom to FREELY CHOOSE to limit our actions,
to help our brethren.
So, can we at least make fun of "wimpy Christians", and turn aside? If we have to limit ourselves,
can we just leave them alone after that? After all, someone once claimed
"Weakness always brings down strength."
Sadly for the "macho" Christian, NO.
Romans 15:1-3.
"1We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
2Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.
3For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me."
One may contrast that with the explanation of what to do when our brethren are
offended back in pfal. vpw himself spoke to the effect of DISREGARDING those offended.
After all, he said, if one person didn't like my tie, another might not like my vest,
and at that rate, "pretty soon we'd get down to bare facts."
It sounds soooo CLEVER, but if I had to choose between SOUNDING CLEVER
and SPEAKING GOD'S WORD, I shall continue to be clumsy and awkward,
and speak the words of God.
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Jeaniam
Galatians contasts the law of liberty with the law of Moses, culminating with Gal. 4:30-5:1 &7--'Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not childfren of the bondwoman, but of the free. Stand fast therefor in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage (the law of Moses). For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.'
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markomalley
(highlighting above is mine)
Jean,
That is something that really ticks me off with TWI (and some former TWI) people...when you add something to scripture.
τῇ ἐλευθερίᾳ ἡμᾶς Χριστὸς ἠλευθέρωσεν στήκετε οὖν καὶ μὴ πάλιν ζυγῷ δουλείας ἐνέχεσθε
I don't see anywhere in the above that has (the law of Moses) written in it. So why do you insert it? Shoot, the context of the verse is not even talking about the Mosaic law, it's talking about circumcision...in light of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael (who all pre-dated Moses by a year or two).
Frankly, as to the subject of the "law of liberty," the phrase is used exactly twice in the Bible. James 1:25 and 2:12. If you check the context of those two verses out, it doesn't say what (as I recall) we were taught in TWI. It talks about the importance of the corporal works of mercy (see Jas 2:2 - 2:6, 2:16, etc.), and, in essence, the need to obey all of the decalogue (see Jas 2:10). Galatians talks in large part about the same points...the importance of interior conversion, as opposed to mere exterior compliance (spirit vs. mere flesh). But neither give authority to Christians to go and do whatever they want. Nowhere are we relieved of requirement to act in accord with the decalogue. In fact, we have to live toward our neighbors with a higher standard.
In this regard, I love James 2:13 For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy; yet mercy triumphs over judgment. When I read this, I remember all those times that we were told not to feed the poor, but just give them the Word. I thank God for His mercy toward me, for all those times when I was in TWI and I could have helped somebody...
Sorry if I sound harsh, but it's just something that irks me when I see it happen. The venom is aimed at the general habit...not at you as a person. So please don't take it like I'm yelling at you. I'm not. I'm yelling at the habit (which all of us have been guilty of).
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DrWearWord
Homologeo
To say the same thing in you heart that you speak.
But not to just speak of liberty but to allow others to walk in it.
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DrWearWord
The spirit was lost by the ruling kingdoms of the world but God revealed his way of faith to those who believed.
This is why we have the faith of Jesus Christ.
Without this faith there can be no liberty.
Christ is "The Way" (to God) because he walked in liberty.
The "way of holiness" is the law of liberty and faith...
By faith Abraham... Faith is the red thread of Christ.
It is not what is on the surface but the meaning we derive from the checks and balances... We do not only look at where a word has been used before but the "context" also...
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T-Bone
It might help if you would provide scriptural evidence for your assertion. What you’re saying still does not convince me that man lost the image of God. Your reply is confusing. Matter of fact, your rhetoric sounds like bits and pieces of a typical VPW sermon – instead of specifically addressing my point, you plug in a VPW-like phrase with spiritual sounding terms and double-talk your way to a totally different point.
I really don’t mean to offend
– just thought I’d point out something about GSC. This is a DISCUSSION forum – not anyone’s personal pulpit. You sound like you’re preaching – I came here to discuss. I’m giving you the benefit of a doubt that you mean well – but it comes across as insulting when you don’t talk WITH people but talk AT them. It would be easier for me to understand your thinking if there was real communication happening on this thread…Anyway…we could start over again 
- if you’re game you can try a direct reply to my post # 29 where I say Genesis 9: 4-7 indicates man still has the image of God.
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T-Bone
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DrWearWord
Who accuses those of the very thing they themselves do? This is a doctrinal discussion of God not the price of tea in China.
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DrWearWord
Word Wolf you can have the law of sin and death and see where "charity" leads you and I will take the law of liberty and see where charity leads me.
For what the law could not do in that is was weak and "wimpy"...
:)
Are you saying we are NOT free from the law and man is justified by the deeds of the law once again?
The law of liberty and the law of sin and death are diametrically opposed. You can't have it both ways... Do animals make laws? Only the "law of liberty" can save the world.
I have many students on the internet and I will tell you I am ashamed to bring them here because they understand the law of liberty more then the lot of you. Those who never knew Wierwille.
Until you get into fellowship with the true God I will not even link them to you.
I don't want anyone poisoning their minds with "Way" hate. They have enough hate of the old man nature that they have to struggle as it is to renew their minds to Christ's walk of the law of liberty. Jesus Christ was a "friend to sinners"... he did not mark and avoid them... Shame on you who do not hear the voice of charity for being so gullible as to forsake the walk of Christ for the law again. Your shame will be imposed by the very law consciousness you impose on others.
Now I have explained this and just because it does not agree with your legalistic "doctrine" you have encased in stone does not mean that I am the one who is errant.
Who shall decide which laws are still in effect?
All of the laws are embodied in the law of liberty which is simply love for God and others through the spirit and not love earned by the works of the flesh. (lest men should boast) Thankfulness of the spirit is the only power than can manifest true charity and the works and deeds of the spirit.
I will explain this again and again and if you keep going back to the law then I will consider a spiritual depletion and blinded minds which cannot believe the truth.
You need to see liberty in light of the perfection of the spirit.
The charity of the law of liberty over the law of sin and death.
For the law of liberty is what the Bible amply teaches and you have magnified a few scriptures of deeds and unclear legal jargon to simply revert back to the law.
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DrWearWord
The purpose of forgiveness of "sins" in the Church is for when people revert back to the law and have broken fellowship with God and the the perfect law of liberty.
For how can perfection sin?
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Mark Clarke
There is a difference between works to gain righteousness and works because you are already righteous. That is the balance presented by James, and Paul and all the New Testament writers. We are not under the Mosaic Law, but we are bound by a higher law - the Law of Christ. Jesus taught it in the Semon on the Mount, James elaborated on it inhis epistle, and Paul spoke of it as well. Love fulfills the Law.
To DrWearWord,
As T-Bone said, it would help if you quoted Scripture instead of VPW-like cliche's. Looking back over your posts I noticed that you simply expounded your doctrine (most of which sounds like PFAL revisited) with NO Scriptural backup. We have all had PFAL or some version of it (most of us anyway) and that's why this discussion forum is here - we are rethinking what we were taught in order to determine if it is truly of God or not. The Scripture must be our standard, and to that end if you want to prove a point, please give "chapter and verse."
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DrWearWord
Luke 8:30
And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils [laws] were entered into him.
Comment: For to use law to cast out devils is using the prince of devils to cast out sin.
These sins only return in "legions".
Jesus used forgiveness (the law of liberty) instead of law to cast out sins.
Father forgive them for they know not what they do...
It was this very law of boastful men/women and condemnation that brought the ministry of "The Way" down...
And the ministry will not rise and expand again until the law of liberty is reestablished in the church.
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DrWearWord
I can quote scriptures but it has been a breath of fresh air to not have go into as much detail as I have had to in other forums.
Also when you see others heading to walk into the path of train you simply save them and yank them out of the way, BECAUSE YOU LOVE....
You know I can back up my doctrine scripturally for we all are exceedingly proficient in the words of the word.
My usage of certain words should bring to mind the doctrines that I use to back up my position.
Nothing can lay law at the feet of the spirit for it has already been judged (past tense) and it is a new birth of "incorruptible" seed.
As you can see I have had the trust in the spirit of the true God to go further than Doctor did with liberty..
Furthermore his own occasions for the flesh could not darkens his own spirit.
Only his renewed mind fellowship with God.
For law is the occasion of the flesh.
Do not let liberty and the liberty of others lead you back to the law.
For law is the only occasion of the flesh there is left, for the spirit cannot sin.
Now see who's doctrines have been turned upside right.
These strings that have bound us are the strings of the laws.
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T-Bone
My, you have a very short attention span...or maybe a little problem comprehending sentences that are not written in TWI-speak [commonly referred to as plain English]…It looks like a one sided discussion on this thread – you preach and rant….someone challenges you on a point…you preach, rant, accuse and insult.
I'm not surprised you have many students on the Internet. There's a sucker born every minute. Heck, I used to believe VPW was the man of God for the universe a long time ago – that image is forever soiled of course by seeing what he was really like when I was in the Corps. There's a vast difference between his Christian façade that was paraded around for the public and his actual character that schemed and connived to feed his sexual perversions. But alas, I speak a foreign language to someone poisoned by pride and arrogance.
I hate to burst your bubble – but your poisonous doctrine is showing. Better not let any of your students come to GSC – we wouldn't want them to see that mean-spirited two-faced "charity of the law of liberty" of their teacher, now would we.
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DrWearWord
Now this is in response to YOUR post not only my own... You have simply just disagreed and not given one shred of logic other than it is your opinion. You know what they say about opinions...
PROVE TO ME THAT WE ARE STILL UNDER THE LAW "BIBLICALLY..."
Or "shut your damned mouth." As VP aptly once said. :)
My students are still walking along their own way from the hell that "out in the world Christianity" has subjected them to...
I do not have to apologize for or defend the truth it is error and lies that makes your files thick...
I just dust my feet off and walk on it is you who is holding others to standards that you yourself do not adhere to..
For ALL were judged sinful under the law...
And the natural man cannot please God...
Do we have to go back to PFAL and sit, stand walk?
Acts 21:14
And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will [law] of the Lord be done.
Comment: We cannot serve two masters, law and the law of liberty...
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DrWearWord
"I have no friends when it comes to God's word..."
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DrWearWord
We first received the image of God conditionally..
Then unconditionally.
1Pe 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible [conditional] seed, but of incorruptible [unconditional seed], by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1Co 15:54
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
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another spot
The law was weak because no law can produce righteousness. The Galatians were trying to get righteousness by performance of the law (their own righteousness, not the righteousness of God through faith). The law was slavery in the sense that no amount of obedience would produce righteousness and it only provided temporary atonement. We were freed from this slavery. That is the liberty. Paul goes on to say that that doesn’t mean freedom to sin.
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DrWearWord
Romans 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Comment: People are still seeking the righteousness of God in the flesh and not the spirit.
For it is law that brings knowledge of sin that feeds condemnation that leads to the sins of the flesh..
For the flesh can still sin but the flesh is not who the person identifies with but the person is identified with the spirit in God's eyes.
The natural man cannot please God and the person of the spirit cannot displease God...
2Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust [law/flesh].
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T-Bone
Yo, pay attention! I haven't been arguing with you about the law – didn't you read my post # 29?
You can go back to PFAL – it sure is a step backwards. Your posts read like one who has fully mastered PFAL gobbledygook. There's no hope of having a normal conversation here – not when PFAL incoherency is on the loose.
You know...that might be a lot of your problem - using PFAL to interpret the Bible. 
Hmm…yes that's quite obvious by your posts…That's okay…my Lord Jesus was known as the friend of sinners. I'd rather have Him as a friend anyway.
Confusing theology, to say the least…equating man's physical body with the image of God. Rather than reviewing PFAL nonsense – try reading a systematic theology by a real scholar. I don't think VPW's PFAL book would fare too well in the real world – being how he plagiarized just about everything in it and did an excellent job of twisting Scripture to push erroneous doctrines. His book only goes over big in select circles where people have turned their brain off and sedated their conscience.
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markomalley
You know T-Bone, I wonder if he has the same IP address as our old friend Mike?
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