Adam & Eve

[Danny]

I do believe death to man happened because of the forbidden

fruit.

But I have a hard time reconciling there was no death.

Leaves fall off trees they die.

[Danny]

I have to think Seasons.

Winter Spring Summer Fall

Natural course of the sun.

Moon tides current in the ocean.

I can not see no death.

If you make a broad past with thinking death to man = death in every thing else.

Maybe if you do this then you will surely die like other things die.

[Larry N Moore]

I have to think Seasons.

Winter Spring Summer Fall

Natural course of the sun.

Moon tides current in the ocean.

I can not see no death.

If you make a broad past with thinking death to man = death in every thing else.

Maybe if you do this then you will surely die like other things die.

Ecclesiastes 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: 2 A time to be born, and a time to die . . .

Only some form of intervention -- whether it be via man or God -- can change the course of time's natural influence on God's creation.

Job 7:1 Is there not an appointed time to man upon earth?

Edited July 21, 2007 by Larry N Moore

[templelady]

Leaves fall off tress--seasons

Plants were created to be food--Plants ore living organisms but they are not animals--they lack brains--they lack the ability to think--they cannot choose what to do--they are in no way on the same level as humans/ animals

What makes you think that there were seasons in the Garden??

[Danny]

Why shouldn't I think there wasn't.

God made the Sun the Moon they both do there jobs.

rotate. the result is seasons.

I can go in to a long scintific deal and show no other way.

So animals have brains an can't die?

Personally Tempelady I can't read no death.

Very plainly it says to man Adam. yes to you the day you eat but where to animals.

Just give me the verse and show me I think you are reading further

than it says.

Just because a dog might be mans best friend he is a dog.

Sure there was seasons why not or give me a verse why you would think not.

The garden was work that is what said for them to do.

All them animals that God put there had to eat something.

I don't think Cains deal was the first of it's kind because he said after his punishment from God

he had to have a mark so someone would not kill him.

God told Adam death Well how would he know what that was if it wasn't happening.

Sure the old bear ate the sheep.

Adam knew what it meant just had to look all around him.

My dog understands I am his master. he won't bite me.

But you might not just wall up to him he will bite you.

Adam was the master of the garden.

[templelady]

Why shouldn't I think there wasn't.

God made the Sun the Moon they both do there jobs.

rotate. the result is seasons.

I can go in to a long scintific deal and show no other way.

So animals have brains an can't die?

Personally Tempelady I can't read no death.

Very plainly it says to man Adam. yes to you the day you eat but where to animals.

Just give me the verse and show me I think you are reading further

than it says.

Just because a dog might be mans best friend he is a dog.

Sure there was seasons why not or give me a verse why you would think not.

The garden was work that is what said for them to do.

All them animals that God put there had to eat something.

I don't think Cains deal was the first of it's kind because he said after his punishment from God

he had to have a mark so someone would not kill him.

God told Adam death Well how would he know what that was if it wasn't happening.

Sure the old bear ate the sheep.

Adam knew what it meant just had to look all around him.

My dog understands I am his master. he won't bite me.

But you might not just wall up to him he will bite you.

Adam was the master of the garden.

If there were seasons that means that there was winter right???

So since Adam and Eve were NAKED (no clothes AT ALL) I take it that in the winter Adam was permanently "shrunk" (if you know what I mean <_< ) and Eve was permanently "at attention" ???

The problem here seems to be the entire concept of the Garden and earth as we now know it.

The Garden was PERFECT. No death, no disease, no need to eat meat, no climate changes, no snow, no rain (rain doesn't occur until the flood, before that the earth was covered by a mist periodically to provide moisture --think dew). No need for clothes, a gentle pruning of branches on the fruit trees, a training of vines up a rock face or tree--that was all that was needed.

Eden was Paradise-we cannpt even begin, except in the smallest of ways, to comprehend all that meant-

Think of it this way--when you get to heaven and then Paradise is restored on earth--do you think God will allow you to "kill" any other things of His creation?? Do you think there will be rains and freezing cold or broiling heat? Do you think that the pets you had here on earth, who IMO will be with us again, will die, or fight with each other and maim each other??

That is what Eden was, not a chuck of earth that was somehow transformed into a "fairy land", but the total planet now called earth -- Paradise--the Paradise that will be restored.

[Danny]

Templeladay

Thanks for letting me discuss with you my thinking

Look do you drive car. Yes

Well what is the main thing that powers it? Gas

Where did that come from? Oil

Oh from deposits of dead animls and trees and things like that. yes

WoW how did that happen?

And When? Lots on this subject to show lots of death.

As far as the seasons.

God in the days made earth-firmament made the sun for the day and moon for the night.

How does that happen easy - the earth rotates around the sun on a axis which causes seasons.

Let me tell you where I live we had this winter 2 days that was below frezing for more than 2 hours.

I think where you live many days of cold.

Yes it can get very hot here.

I have been to places where it stays nice almost all year.

If I judge the garden only by where I live I could understand.

Another thing we have to put in the mix Satan is the prince of the power of the air.

That happen before the garden.

I can understand your thinking. I don't nesessary see it in the bible.

I think there was plenty of death before the fall. Just to man there was no death.

Does it say the first time it rained was with The Big Boat.

The power of susjestion is a big thing.

How do I form what I think and you.

Did someone tell you the first time it rained was with Noah.

It sounded good but is it true.

If it's true then show me.

I know I'm sort of that way.

Please I'm not picking on you or trying to mock you

I love discussing things. Maybe I'm just a nut that needs to be cracked.

Or just nuts.

Help me out.

If you can deal with my spelling and subject matter jumping then we can play.

Edited July 22, 2007 by Danny

[Danny]

I'm not God you knew that but see what I'm trying to say.

At my house, i have 3 gardens in my back yard.

A rose garden. A vegetable garden. a flower garden that wraps around a pool.

Yes nice big back yard filled up with things.

See God had this place called the garden of Eden.

It wasn't Earth It was a place.

On my property I have a front yard 2 side yards one bigger than the other.

And a back yard and the house of course.

God could of said earth. If you make Eden earth you have a problem.

God said he made whales and all kind of creatures and said fill the earth.

I don't have a whale in my back yard. Just like Eden maybe not every thing was there.

Maybe so.

Eden could of been 1 square mile or 10 or 100 or 1000.

It doesn't say so I can't guess.

It was not the whole earth.

Just like my back yard as nice as it is it's not Eden.

And as nice as Eden was it wasn't the whole earth.

He drove them out of the garden. Then where did they go if it was the whole earth?

Its very tricky if we or I want to get rid of wrong doctrine.

See they went out of the great place. Plenty of animals eating animals. Death

Why does he say subdue the earth?

Why not yall go have a good time make lots of kids and baby whales.

Multiply.

If we read into what is said we make a mess or I do.

Apples don't grow here. But they grow like crazy other places.

Just like the rest of the earth. Some things some place not others.

I can live with the garden being prefect.

But he put the devil out and guess what he had the earth.

Have you ever seen them big pliers they use to crack nuts?

Go ahead take you best shot.

Edited July 22, 2007 by Danny

[year2027]

God first

Beloved all

God loves you my dear friends

I like to add a few pennies

why would God tell Adam the day you eat you will die if Adam had not understood death to a degree?

there are many kinds of death as there are many kinds of life

just because something does not have life like we do does not make it void of life

we have flesh life just to live again as spirit life a kind that can not die

what if air lives as air to die by entering us to have part of it the air live again as part of us and the other part cast out as a new kind of air

just because we can not see how something thinks it does not mean it does not have knowledge

take air it knows how to be air - air knows the many places to go to be changed - and these places helps air clean it self or get out bad parts

like treess clean out smoke from fires while other parts are wash away by rain

air becomes new so air lives - dies - and lives again

everything moves from stage to stage

while we only see a few stanges seed planted - growth - birth - growth - death - birth - changed to never die

but we are from dust

there wasted to make dust - dust growing has a plant - the plant making fruit - our mother and dad eating the fruit- the fruit inside our mother and father making what will be needed to plant the seed - the seed being planted - growth - birth - growth - death - birth - changed to never die

you see stages are endless

because life is a never endless circle of life until all life because anew circle of spirit

so yes there was death before the fall just only cell death the smallest degree of death

because if not life would of stop and Adam and Eve would of had no air to breath and no nails on their toes

but what we call death is just a new stage of life and what we call life is just a stage of death until we changed to the point death loses its power over us

sin brings spiritual death or no way to end the cycle of death but Christ brings life with death a way to end the cycle of death

flesh is just a cycle of patters without hope but spirit is cycle of patters of hope

one is a circle of death for all things and the other is a circle of life for all things

just adding a few pennies

thank you

with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy

[Danny]

Thanks Roy

[Danny]

Just for the heck of it I read the bible again

to make sure I have all my nuts in the right place.

In Gen 1;14 The lights are for signs and seasons for days and years.

Guess what they had winter.

Maybe no snow in south Fl.

But lots in Buffalo N.Y.

Gen 2:5 God had not caused it to rain upon the earth and there was no man to till the ground.

He God knew about the rain deal next verse it says a mist from the ground coming up.

Tilling can be lots of work.

Verse 8 God planted a garden Eastward in Eden.

Well if it is eastward it's not where they are or westward.

It was a special place not every where.

Leaves room for all the rest of the earth to have a bear fest.

Verse 10 A river must of been lots of water to have a river.

Not like one of those little misters they have in some gardens

a small shot of water that's it.

River with 4 heads at that.

Gen 7:4 Says it will rain for 40 days.

He god could of said it will rain for the fist time.

He doesn't so we can't know it was the first or 100.

I have found myself thinking something because I was led

to believe it. I sometimes didn't weigh it out in steps and

made a error by not applying logic. I made my own religion.

[year2027]

God first

Beloved Danny

God loves you my dear friend

you are welcome

I love the way you think about rain

thank you

with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy