A life of its own

[Outfield]

If I remember correctly from my AC -- it was explained that aspirin effects chemicals in the brain. Healing can happen instantaneous or over time.

The example of aspirin was "something as simple as aspirin can have healing effects."

Point being -- devil spirits often mess with brain chemicals and an aspirin can knock out the checmical effect.

I've dug out my old syllabus, maybe I can explain this better. But I was definitely taught this -- I think of it everytime I take an aspirin.

[Mike]

Here's the 1979 AC transcript, segment 26:

"You and I ought to become real mad at the devil. You still

tolerate him too much, because, you know, you never - you just think

he's a nice Joe or somethin', he's not gonna do all this. We Christians

are to get so mad at him that - well, I don't know how else to say it,

we ought to get just so "T'd-off" that we - any time he does anything

like that to any Christian believer, we just yell our heads off, so to

speak, at him.

"Devil spirits, at times - not at times, but - devil spirits, I've

seen 'em put out of operation, for instance, with a couple of

"aspirins". Ah, I've seen 'em put out of operation with eh, giving an

anesthetic of some kind, or a shot in their arm - whatever doctors give

at that time - just devil spirits. Because the devil spirit has to have

the freedom of operating your "telephone line", mentally, see. If I'm

gonna call ya on the phone, I guess we have to have a line of

communication. Now if somebody snips the line, I won't be able to talk

to you any further. Devil spirits are like that. You know, give a man

a shot at a certain time and the devils spirits can't operate, and . . ."

ONCE AGAIN shows that many things slipped by us unawares or were forgotten.

Edited October 14, 2007 by Mike

[GrouchoMarxJr]

doojable,

One person remembered it, to all the rest it's a brand new idea.

Maybe it would be a good idea to think about it for a while before rejecting it so quickly.

At any rate, it ONCE AGAIN shows that many things slipped by us unawares or were forgotten.

To properly extract the most benefit from what we were taught it would help TO KNOW what we were taught.

Even for those who just want to criticize what we were taught it would help TO KNOW what we were taught.

I'm fully aware of what I was taught by VP Cornfield (he was NOT a doctor)...he was a shister whose teachings should be hauled out to the place where the fires never cease...

Mike...You begin with a different assumption than I do. Wierwille's personal failings, his lying, stealing and immoral activities disqualifies him as a legitimate teacher of God's word....the guy was drunk more often than he was sober...he was a fake.

[Mike]

The good news is, if God worked so much with Dr, then THINK of how much more He can work with you!

I'm serious.

I think ONE of the reasons God worked with Dr is SIMILAR to why He worked with Saul of Tarsus. It demonstrates His great grace and mercy and power.

If God had to satisfy the standards of people He's never find anyone to get anything done.

I'm GLAD God worked with sinners in the past. It encourages me that He can work with EVEN me.

Edited October 14, 2007 by Mike

[doojable]

Here's the 1979 AC transcript, segment 26:

"You and I ought to become real mad at the devil. You still

tolerate him too much, because, you know, you never - you just think

he's a nice Joe or somethin', he's not gonna do all this. We Christians

are to get so mad at him that - well, I don't know how else to say it,

we ought to get just so "T'd-off" that we - any time he does anything

like that to any Christian believer, we just yell our heads off, so to

speak, at him.

VP sure had some double standard...

"Devil spirits, at times - not at times, but - devil spirits, I've

seen 'em put out of operation, for instance, with a couple of

"aspirins". Ah, I've seen 'em put out of operation with eh, giving an

anesthetic of some kind, or a shot in their arm - whatever doctors give

at that time - just devil spirits. Because the devil spirit has to have

the freedom of operating your "telephone line", mentally, see. If I'm

gonna call ya on the phone, I guess we have to have a line of

communication. Now if somebody snips the line, I won't be able to talk

to you any further. Devil spirits are like that. You know, give a man

a shot at a certain time and the devils spirits can't operate, and . . ."

ONCE AGAIN shows that many things slipped by us unawares or were forgotten.

At the MOST that spirit is only put out of commission temporarily. The "telephone line" is only out of commission while the drug is in effect. And that is only IF what vpw said is true.

It's still not a healing. I do see how a person could take that too far and become a substance abuser with the excuse that he's keeping the spirits at bay.

VPW couldn't even keep up with his own teachings... he proclaimed men HE ORDAINED as being born of the wrong seed. You think I'm going to trust even word of anything he said about devil spirits? If there's any truth to any of it - it's still there to be found, and not from the mouth of a hypocrit...

Here is what the Advanced Class syllabus says on page 22/ 1971 version.

(1). Keeping devil spirits out:

(a). They lodge in your mind to control your "telephone system," your internal communications.

(b). They lodge in your physical body- as diseases that have life of themselves.

From page 17 :

(11) They are the cause of mental and physical disease.

From page 19:

(2) A born-again saved believer may become afflicted with evil spirits. The spirits may affect or possess mind and/or body, but not the spirit.

OKay... so back to the subject at hand...

Edited October 14, 2007 by doojable

[Mike]

doojable,

Sometimes all a person needs is some temporary relief so he can get the Word back in mind.

[doojable]

doojable,

Sometimes all a person needs is some temporary relief so he can get the Word back in mind.

Did it work for Saul? Hmmmmm - he had David play for him. He got his "temporary relief." Temporary is just that TEMPORARY.

Get back to the topic, Mike.

[GrouchoMarxJr]

The good news is, if God worked so much with Dr, then THINK of how much more He can work with you!

I'm serious.

I think ONE of the reasons God worked with Dr is SIMILAR to why He worked with Saul of Tarsus. It demonstrates His great grace and mercy and power.

If God had to satisfy the standards of people He's never find anyone to get anything done.

I'm GLAD God worked with sinners in the past. It encourages me that He can work with EVEN me.

I say that God never worked with Wierwille (again, he was NOT a doctor)...I know that you are serious and that's very sad.

Edited October 14, 2007 by GrouchoMarxJr

[waysider]

Thanks for looking that up, MIKE.

Apparently Wierwille did, in fact, teach along those lines.

Now the question that remains is."Was he accurate in his presentation of this idea?"

You say "yes".

I say "no".

I'm ok with that.

Still, it would be the icing on the cake, so to speak, if you could substantiate this from scripture.

Yeah, I know you won't find the actual word, "aspirin" in the Bible.

I'm talking about this idea of chemicals(pharmacia) being able to elicit these effects.

[doojable]

Thanks for looking that up, MIKE.

Apparently Wierwille did, in fact, teach along those lines.

Now the question that remains is."Was he accurate in his presentation of this idea?"

You say "yes".

I say "no".

I'm ok with that.

Still, it would be the icing on the cake, so to speak, if you could substantiate this from scripture.

Yeah, I know you won't find the actual word, "aspirin" in the Bible.

I'm talking about this idea of chemicals(pharmacia) being able to elicit these effects.

If I'm not mistaken, pharmaceaia (sp?) is the Greek work for "witchcraft." It refers to the drugs used to during various pagan proceedings to make it easier for spirits to enter.

Hmmmm - use of drugs to make it easier.... now a lot of other things are fitting together...

[Mike]

doojable,

No, I meant the other Saul... who later became Paul.

But you brought up ANOTHER example that was in close proximity to the aspirin thing in the AC.

Dr taught that SOMETIMES music can drive OUT a devil. David did it for King Saul, as you just reminded me.

I forgot all about music!

***

waysider, you asked for scripture. I think it was THIS scripture (on David playing music) that Dr used to illustrate how aspirin could work similarly.

Edited October 14, 2007 by Mike

[doojable]

doojable,

No, I meant the other Saul... who later became Paul.

But you brought up ANOTHER example that was in close proximity to the aspirin thing in the AC.

Dr taught that SOMETIMES music can drive OUT a devil. David did it for King Saul, as you just reminded me.

I forgot all about music!

No Mike - that spirit was not driven out. At best it was quieted down for a bit. The music/possession cycle was repeated several times. UNTIL...Remember Saul tried to KILL David while he was playing.

I could be wrong here... I believe the first one to command a devil spirit out and have it STAY OUT was Jesus Christ. (Part of my research paper.)

Edited October 14, 2007 by doojable

[DontWorryBeHappy]

sorry i was'nt quick enough to get your answers to you before you posted your precious transcripts, mike!...........this thread is not about you setting anybody straight here!.....it's not about the difference between devil spirit possession and devil spirit oppression.......it's not about whether or not god worked with that drunken, sociopathic, narcissistic pervert you think was an apostle!........it's about whether or not vic ever taught in the advanced class,.......(which, btw he stole from b.g. leonard, including the nearly verbatim definitions of the manifestations in your precious written syllabus....... and then added whatever drunken rants to it that "father told him"!)......that people who have cancer are possessed by devil spirits of cancer!!!........check your transcripts!!!!.......did he?????

[Mike]

No Mike - that spirit was not driven out. At best it was quieted down for a bit. Remember Saul tried to KILL David while he was playing.

Ok, maybe so, but the main idea is getting relief.

Saul got releif, at least temporarily. Had he turned to God during his time of relief he may have been able to either resist the devil from re-operating and it would then leave. OR if it had left with the music, then Saul could have used the time to turn to God and resist its getting back in.

[doojable]

sorry i was'nt quick enough to get your answers to you before you posted your precious transcripts, mike!...........this thread is not about you setting anybody straight here!.....it's not about the difference between devil spirit possession and devil spirit oppression.......it's not about whether or not god worked with that drunken, sociopathic, narcissistic pervert you think was an apostle!........it's about whether or not vic ever taught in the advanced class,.......(which, btw he stole from b.g. leonard, including the nearly verbatim definitions of the manifestations in your precious written syllabus....... and then added whatever drunken rants to it that "father told him"!)......that people who have cancer are possessed by devil spirits of cancer!!!........check your transcripts!!!!.......did he?????

[Dot Matrix]

Waysider

He said if you are on meds, you should continue until it's the meds that make you sick because you no longer need them.

That is how I remember it.... take the meds until they make you sick.... Where was that Lima?

Edited October 14, 2007 by Dot Matrix

[Mike]

Don'tWorry,

I checked the transcripts for "cancer being a devil spirit" on previous similar threads. It's not there in the 1979 transcript at all. He didn't teach it at all, that cancer WAS a devil or even that cancer implies possession. It's gone by 1979. It's not in the books either.

Yes the teachings morphed. The taped ones. That's why it was important for us to see (and master) the final written forms of his teaching.

[waysider]

"Music hath charms to soothe the savage breast, to soften rocks, or to bend a knotted oak."

Wm. Congreve-----1670-1729

Excerpted from The Morning Bride -----act1/scene 1

Still, it really has little, if anything, to do with the topic of this thread which is "A life of its own".

[Mike]

Waysider

That is how I remember it.... take the meds until they make you sick.... Where was that Lima?

Yes, it was in Lima, at the racetrack, in the middle of the afternoon, an unscheduled emergency meeting. I was there.

He also added that you shouldn't stop taking the meds until BOTH until they make you sick AND your medical doctor says to stop taking them.

Edited October 14, 2007 by Mike

[DontWorryBeHappy]

new page, eh??......ok......mike.......did vic ever teach that........anything that has life of itself is spirit?........did he ever teach that "all spirit is life"?........did he ever teach that cancer is devil spirits??........did he ever teach that if a person has cancer, that person is possessed by at least one devil spirit of cancer???.........................please............what do your transcripts have to say???

[Mike]

new page, eh??......ok......mike.......did vic ever teach that........anything that has life of itself is spirit?........did he ever teach that "all spirit is life"?........did he ever teach that cancer is devil spirits??........did he ever teach that if a person has cancer, that person is possessed by at least one devil spirit of cancer???.........................please............what do your transcripts have to say???

You may have missed my partial answer a few posts above, in #42.

And for the Topic Police: the full title of this thread is "A life of its own, cancer and devil posession"

Edited October 14, 2007 by Mike

[waysider]

Wouldn't be much of a doctor if he/she let you continue taking meds that made you sick.

At least that's my opinion.

"course that doesn't really change the fact that the syllabus I have here clearly shows that Dr. Wierwille did teach that cancer is possession.

Now, if you could somehow round up all the syllabi that are not the "final" version and replace them with the one that you have---------

-Nah! --------------Still wouldn't be able to change history.

[doojable]

Wait Mike,

vpw DID teach that all spirit is life. He also taught that:

Anything alive has spirit.

Anything that has life of itself has spirit.

From page 17 :

(11) They(spirits - sic.) are the cause of mental and physical disease.

From page 19:

(2) A born-again saved believer may become afflicted with evil spirits. The spirits may affect or possess mind and/or body, but not the spirit.

Those two statements say it all.

Edited October 15, 2007 by doojable

[DontWorryBeHappy]

yeah......i did.......i'm watching the patriots game.......go pats!!.............so, there is a book called advanced class '79??........why are you "cherrypicking" your transcripts??......did vic ever teach that people who have cancer are posessed by at least one devil spirit???".......not just the glossed up and over ac '79!!!!.......did he ever teach that a person who has cancer is possessed with at least one devil spirit of cancer???...........and, btw, i never heard vic ever say that the ac'79 superceded all previous advanced classes!!.......i never heard him teach that we're responsible to track the "morphing" of his teachimgs either!........just the facts mike.....not your pi, ok??

[Goey]

Here's the 1979 AC transcript, segment 26:

"Devil spirits, at times - not at times, but - devil spirits, I've

seen 'em put out of operation, for instance, with a couple of

"aspirins". Ah, I've seen 'em put out of operation with eh, giving an

anesthetic of some kind, or a shot in their arm - whatever doctors give

at that time - just devil spirits. Because the devil spirit has to have

the freedom of operating your "telephone line", mentally, see. If I'm

gonna call ya on the phone, I guess we have to have a line of

communication. Now if somebody snips the line, I won't be able to talk

to you any further. Devil spirits are like that. You know, give a man

a shot at a certain time and the devils spirits can't operate, and . . ."

(VP Wierweille)

Fer crying out loud .......

If a devil spirit is so smart that he can manipulate or alter the complex chemicals in the brain, then counteracting relatively simple compounds such as an aspirin, anethestics, etc should be a walk in the park for any half-witted demon.

This kind of stuff most likely came from VPW's devil spirit paranoia/mania. He attempted to explain all things "bad"" in terms of direct attacks by demons. Spiritual warfare you know.

No wonder people were labeled posessed so much in TWI.

Edited October 14, 2007 by Goey