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When did TWI stop teaching about healing?


Watered Garden
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When I first got involved in TWI, in 1973, prayer for healing was pretty routine. And it worked. We saw signs, miracles, and wonders. As late as 1982-83, I myself prayed for healing of a disease called sarcoidosis, sitting in the House of His Healing Presence until I knew I was healed. Later, the x-rays proved God had indeed healed me of this disease.

It was routine operating procedure to pray for someone at twig; I would even ask after a teaching if anyone had anything they needed prayer for, and have more than once placed my hands on someone's shoulders and asked God to heal them. The medical WOWs did the same thing. Healing was taught as part of our ministering to others, and we taught to go to God first. We taught III John 2, we taught "I am the Lord that healeth thee," we taught it was God's good pleasure to see us healthy.

In 1994, I was diagnosed with insulin dependent diabetes. I was soundly condemned and made to feel ashamed. Obviously I had sinned or God would not have removed His hand of protection from my life and allowed me to be scourged with this disease. This is now a very popular doctrine among non-TWI folk; either you sinned and God is punishing you, or you need to grow in faith and God is testing you. Nary a word have I heard for many many years about Satan bringing disease and sickness as in John 10:10, "the thief cometh not but for to steal and to kill and to destroy." (See "Secrets of the Vine" in the open forum).

Was there some great "revelation" given you WC in the early 1990's that stated prayer for healing was no longer necessary? I was visited in the hospital in St. Mary's by many people, most of whom were WC grads. Not a one offered to pray for me or with me, let alone minister healing. I was pretty much out there on a limb by myself.

I still feel that way quite often and wonder if I am indeed cursed by God or being scourged for some sin I can't remember (there are so many of them). Surely if God is disciplining me He would at least be nice enough to tell me what I did to deserve the excruciating pain and shame I sometime feel in my heart., not to mention that if this is of God, I don't understand why. I mean, I told my son and I tell my grandson when he was/is being disciplined where he blew it and what he needs to do the next time to be right, not wrong.

When people ask me if I understand why I am diabetic, I tell them I was born wearing the wrong set of genes. I can tell some people think this is the wrong answer.

Bottom line: When did TWI stop teaching healing?

WG

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HI WG,

I really enjoy all your posts. I believe God heals.

It doesn't matter to me whether TWI teaches it or not. The BIBLE says it.

God does heal and you've seen him heal in your life as I have in mine.

Not to sound clique - but put your believing there again.

I'm praying for you.

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I still feel that way quite often and wonder if I am indeed cursed by God or being scourged for some sin I can't remember (there are so many of them). Surely if God is disciplining me He would at least be nice enough to tell me what I did to deserve the excruciating pain and shame I sometime feel in my heart., not to mention that if this is of God, I don't understand why. I mean, I told my son and I tell my grandson when he was/is being disciplined where he blew it and what he needs to do the next time to be right, not wrong.

I put a lot of thought into this subject because I wondered why innocent children are born with horrible disease, die of cancer, or need major surgery to survive. the only logical way to look at it if you're christian is that over the centuries since creation the devil's had plenty of opportunity to introduce genetic anomalies using the environment. so, they get carried on. spontaneous mutation is usually harmful but sometimes passed into the general gene pool. no one gets punished with disease. your parents can't "believe" for a healthy child. you can't sin enough to get a genetic disease.

lcm put a lot of blame on people. there were no signs miracles and wonders following us because we were so spiritually anemic.

When people ask me if I understand why I am diabetic, I tell them I was born wearing the wrong set of genes. I can tell some people think this is the wrong answer.

Bottom line: When did TWI stop teaching healing?

WG

I can't exactly remember, but I think lcm stopped teaching it after he blamed lack of healing on our anemic believing. it was all our fault that God couldn't heal people so it would figure that there was no point in him teaching it anymore. I remember him heaping blame and acting disgusted all the time, especially after anyone died tragically.

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Outfield, thanks for the prayers! I do get along rather well, and have just started a new insulin pump. But it's frustrating as heck when people assume, let alone the people "out there" who teach, that God had anything to do with it.

Potato, I agree! I worked in a cancer hospital and my boss treated little kids with cancer. It was a heartbreaker, and more than once I told God "You got some 'splaining to do!" However, I also believe the fall of man was so great a sin as to gradually, over the centuries and millenia, poison the very earth, so that it does not produce healthy nutrients for man or beast as God originally intended it to do.

As far as "anemic believing" I think LCM did a poor job of inspiring people to experience anything other than absolute terror of being evicted from the household of God, thus bringing destruction and death upon themselves and their loved ones.

LCM seems to have been a very angry and frustrated man, who blamed others for his own shortcomings. Reminds me of the old Pogo comic where the characters says "We have met the enemy, and it is us!"

Look, everyone dies. Sometimes sooner, sometimes later. Why not comfort the survivors by preaching the hope of Christi's return, that the decedent's next awareness will be of the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ, and eternity with Him?

Oh and the genes? My dad and his older brother were diabetic, and there were a few type 2 diabetics scattered among my mother's cousins. But I actually read a commentary that to blame sickness and disease on genetic factors is sin; God is making you sick, God is scourging you and that's that. What sin did you commit to bring this upon yourself?

It almost sounds like LCM was teaching that same sort of falsehood. Did he ever catch a cold, get an upset tummy, need a medication for a chronic physical problem? (Not that I want to violate HIPPA rules here, but just wondering if the dear boy was physically perfect hissownself).

WG

Edited by Watered Garden
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Watered Garden, please do not feel alone, and please do not feel that God is punishing you. God desires that you are whole and happy. You have been healed before of a horrible disease and it can happen again.

What some people have said to you about you being deserving of this disease is most certainly all wrong. You have done nothing to deserve such pain. You are a child of God. You are righteous in His sight. If some idiots cannot see that, then they need to just shut up.

If you need someone or simply would like someone to pray for you or with you let me know. (Of course I will pray for you anyway... :) )

BTW, to the best of my knowledge the Way Corps never recieved any special revelation concerning healing at all. That was an LCM thing.

Edited by Eyesopen
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I can't really answer the question of "when?".

When I left in about 1990, it was still a big part of the twig I attended.

The twig leader always asked if anyone would like to be "ministered to" at the end of twig fellowship.

(Of course, we were a bit on the renegade side when it came to towing the company line on doctrine.)

We also had a full scale communion service at least once a year.

The concept of sickness and misfortune being the result of misdeeds is not unique to The Way.

In fact, it's not even unique to Christianity.

I have heard this same doctrine spoken by people from Asia, people from Africa and people who have exposure to the Voodoo culture of the Deep South as well as others.

If you listen for it, you can even hear references to this thinking in "popular" music.

My personal take on it is that the human mind does not like to accept that random misfortune can befall anyone.

It's a way of making sense of something that otherwise makes no sense.

I'm a bit curious, is healing still taught as part of the Advanced Class?

Then again, is there still some sort of Advanced Class being offered?

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Waysider, I remember whose twig you last attended, I think you told me awhile back, and those folks were definitely more in tune with God than with LCM.

Mr. Garden and I were discussing this over dinner at a restaurant tonight. We are going to be small group leaders for our church. If someone needs to be prayed for for healing, I don't think we're gonna stop and ask anyone's opinion other than God's.

The pastor said tonight that the miracles Jesus performed, the healings and raising people from the dead were simply to verify that He was the Messiah, the son of God. I disagree with that. I think there's more to it. I think that Jesus revealed the nature and character of God. I think if God smites and scourges His people for their imperfections, Jesus would have given Peter boils or hemorrhoids or something, just for being the bumptious, outspoken ADHD guy he was. But Jesus never caused people to be sick; he healed them. He did give some moneychangers a whuppin' that time, but that was a one time occurrence for a very good reason.

However, I am aware that the doctrine that God is in control, all things come from God, and therefore if you sick or diseased, it is God who gave you the sickness, and you should be thankful, is indeed a very popular and well received doctrine. It's unfortunate, too.

WG

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I do remember being carped on for lackluster believing - but I remember more of angry yelling about God not spitting in our direction because we were holding back our tithes and offerings - - maybe that's why they stopped teaching about healing. God stopped spitting in their direction?

Actually, when you concentrate on minutia and expand it to take up your day in 15 minute increments, you can't see the big things, can you.

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Is it Christmas yet? Merry Christmas to all and to all a big Merry!

WG, I would say, in all honesty and with no desire to denigrate anyone - I think it fell off the Waydar (get it - radar/Waydar? :biglaugh: ) due to the Way becoming rather like a broken cistern where all the water leaked out. Over time the indisputable lack of any manifested or demonstrated "power" amongst the members led to a kind of moody, gray cloud of doubt.

It's much easier to hoot and pound from the podium about how things ought to be if this or if that and if only someone could or would this or that. t's much easier to give reasons why something won't or can't happen than to look for opportunities for something to happen.

MY guesstimate - the Way just lost faith, and replaced it with their own regimented religion which no one could follow completely or perfectly. The perfect excuse.

We all need prayer, we all need support, we all need healing. We need whatever God and man can offer. Life sucks when it isn't cool, and is only cool when it doesn't suck. Unfortunately it does suck for everyone sometimes, in different ways and different times. In fact, I'm often thankful for anything good that comes down the pike in this rathole of life sometimes. I can only survive by looking for the good and the bright, wherever and whenever it shines. And it does.

LCM was perfectly fine until tested. We're all perfectly fine, as long as life's cool. When it starts to suck, which it will sooner or later, shorter or longer, for a bit or a lot - is when we find out about ourselves. You've done well, and have every reason to be proud this night! Tested and tried, you're more than present and accounted for, you're moving forward. Not everyone can say that.

Merry Christmas! Santa's on his way!!!

Edited by socks
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Thanks Socks!!! And Merry Christmas to you, too!

I certainly am not whining about my diabetes, nor blaming God, nor myself, nor even LCM. Part of my motivation is that we are going to be small group leaders through our church, and I am excited and not without trepidation. The church we attend is somewhat ambivalent about healing, not saying healing is dead, but not promoting healing either. Mr. Garden had a very honest conversation with the senior pastor once, and told him he would NEVER pray for someone to get healed "if it be Thy will."

When we attended the parent church of this church, we were in a small group, and I came to a meeting very stressed and unhappy and with a screaming headache. The group leader immediately noticed, jumped up, put his hands on my shoulders and I was prayed for there and then. And God does still answer prayer, lots of peace and no more headache! That was a few years back, but that man and his wife are our examples of small group leaders.

Of course, thinking about what kind of a Mrs. Small Group Leader I want to be called this incident to my remembrance. And then I wondered why TWI stopped doing it. I would love to see our small group grow in faith like that.

Mr. Garden is a wonderful man who holds fast to that which is good. I'm excited about this new turn of events in our lives and looking forward to the experience.

Thanks so much to all of you who have answered. I'm still working out in my mind what I want to do about my own condition. Right now, I'm in really good shape, have lost about 12 lb. and just got a new insulin pump that does everything except perk the morning coffee!

Merry Christmas to all!

WG

And of course, bless his heart, LCM never thought to look in the mirror and say "I have met the enemy and it is I." (All of us need to do that sometimes, don't we?"

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The ole Masterherbalist was intriqued, WG, by your post.

Personally health and healing was my major study for years and years and years. Researched the Bible on health, herbs, tender grasses, food, etc.

Still practicing today. Still claiming the promises.

However, I am abundantly aware that our society teaches differently. Sickness and disease just happen. You get it when you get old. Etc. The Creator built the universe and all that is in it on principle. If you work the principle, the benefits abound. If the principle is violated, the results follow. Sometimes we can't help violating the principles because we are taught all the wrong things.

Having studied under Dr. John R. Christopher, studied Dr. Walker, Bernard Jensen, Jethro Kloss, Hyppocrates, I am more convinced than ever that teaching the correct principles regarding the care and feeding of this human form helps folks to regain what they lost to sickness and disease.

Diabetes is a disease not found in underdeveloped countries. Diet appears to be the common element. The pancreas is overworked or shut down by the diet and is unable to produce the insulin needed. Dr. Christopher taught us that he found with the guidance of God, a formula which cleansed and fed the pancreas and enabled the organ to return to functionality. This, coupled with a change in diet produced optimum results.

Just a few thoughts for you. Hopefully these words will help you in some way. I would be honored to offer you more assistance, should you want to contact me.

the Masterherbalist

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Watered Garden;

Just a couple of foundational scriptures:

Psalm 139:14 "I will praise You, for I am fearfully (awesomely) and wonderfully made;

II Peter 1:3 "According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness."

I Corinthians 12:12-26 For as the body is one and hath many members and all the members of that one body, being many are one body......For the body is not one member but many; If the foot shall say......

and my personal credo scripture:

Deuteronomy 34:7 "And Moses was an hundred and twenty yeras old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated."

The human body is awesomely and wonderfully made. It is designed to house the soul and spirit. It's main job is to sustain life, at any cost.

History tells us that the Father of Medicine, Hyppocrates saw symptoms or dis-ease as "Ah, that's the body working. Let's help it". Hyppocrates looked to help the body in its effort to heal and restore itself. Modern medicine changed that philosophy to seeing the body being "sick" and a need to be acted upon to the exclusion of lifestyle and dietary changes. Thus a whole pharmaceutical industry is born and taught to today's future doctors.

So why did I quote the above scriptures?

The first scripture is to remind me that our physical form is awesome. There is nothing wrong with it. There is nothing in its design or function that was not calculated by a greater intellect than mine. The Moses reference is to remind me that everything that I have been told about aging and things you just have to accept as a part of the process cannot be true. Many of what is called age-related illnesses are actually created by lifestyle and diet. Peter states we have been given everything pertaining to life and godliness. Then the only thing lacking is my understanding. (I then claim Ephesians 1:18). Lastly I referenced Corinthians. When I was "in" the ministry learning all those keys to interpretation and the like, I read this verse and while some leadership was teaching me about the body of Christ, I was daydreaming about the analysis to the human body. When one part is in distress, it affects all parts.

So is the case with "sickness" or dis-ease. Though the diagnosis of Diabetes refers to the failing of the pancreas, the dis-ease, as you stated, correlates to the immune system.

The question then is, if the body is designed to sustain life, then why is the guardian system of the body, the immune system attacking "self"? M-m-m. There has to be something amiss. Medical experts have expressed the possibility that it is the result of an immune response after a viral infection or something related to nutrition.

It took time to "build" this response by the body. It will take time to restore the balance. Though I, by my moniker, am the herbalist, it will take a complete program. Not just herbs. Not some pills. Dr. Christopher taught me better. The moniker, by the way is my recognition of the Jehovah Rapha-THE Masterherbalist.

So the foundation that I am attempting to lay here is that your diagnosis is a symptom and it would be my desire to offer you tools to empower you to effect the healing that is yours. Every person is an individual and there is no one-size fits all program. There is some basic similarities between us humans, but each of us also carry a genetic code which brings with it the generations of weaknesses and illnesses which folks refer to as "it runs in my family". Even these issues can be worked back out of a family's lineage through care and feeding of the human body.

I saw in my Bible studies and fellowship and ministering to people the Native American Medicine Man, the Shaman, the Holy Man, Luke the Physician, etc. It takes the humbleness to ask for guidance from the Great Spirit and utilize every tool that you have been given- try and try again until you get what is rightfully yours.

I can resume this post with some of those tools and ideas or you could PM me and we could work on some ideas specifically for you. I would need a little information. As I do when doing some one on one teaching, I need the following information:

Age:

Height/Weight:

Prescription medications taken (with dosage):

Vitamins or other supplements:

Amount of exercise: Type of exercise:

Amount of water consumed daily:

Type of employment:

Average diet plan (a week is preferred):

Surgeries:

Current complaints:

Miscellaneous:

The Masterherbalist

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