I was told I don't appreciate my husband (now ex) enough. my ex is a pathological liar.
I was told not to report a domestic violence event that injured one of my kids. it was a clergyman who said it. he was obligated by state law to report it himself because a minor child was endangered, but he was more concerned with how the ministry looked.
twi didn't destroy my marriage. my marriage was a wreck and a farce. twi just kept me in it 15 years longer than I should have been, and made the aftermath devastating because of years of indoctrination that I was to serve the bastard who treated me like a dog.
Wierwille came of age in rural America during The Great Depression.
I personally think a lot of his attitudes and practices regarding women and marriage were gleaned from his personal experiences during his formative years, not from any study of the scriptures or some supposed Divine connection.
And, since he was the lead dog in the TWI pack, the other simply fell in step.
I saw many bad marriages in TWI. I also saw many good marriages where it seemed the two seemed compatible and loving toward one another.
I never got any good advice from any leaders in my first disaster called marriage. My ex-husband was a closet drug user. I found out 3 years in to our marriage. We received counseling as such:
Branch Coord: I don't want to hear any of the dirty details. You two need to read "Heirs Together in the Grace of Life" from the Red Book. Then focus on that.
There was no follow-up. It was crap. We really needed to deal with issues, not cover them up with Bible verses and pretend we were honoring each other. My nature is not submissive, so it was especially hard when my "head" was being a screw up.
I don't believe someone is the head of the marriage. I honestly don't care even if the Bible says that a man is to be the head. If two people decide the dynamics of their own relationship and both are happy with that, then that's what really counts.
In my current marriage, we are equals who honor each other's opinion and make decisions together. We are honest with each other too, even if it is uncomfortable. I respect my husband much more when he can feel free to be honest with a situation.
For instance, we had a situation recently where he made a decision on a service for our home. He made a one-year contract with that service which meant we would receive that service every month. I didn't think we needed it once a month even though we get a discount that way. I thought we could have the service 3-4 times a year and I didn't remember us having a one-year contract. My husband said "You might not remember, but I told you about this when I first called about the service. We discussed having a contract back then." Because I know my mind is forgetful, I accept that even though I hate admitting I am becoming forgetful. Some people would say OK and back off instead of making waves and then carry resentment or a grudge about that subject which would cause future arguements.
All those physically and verbally abusive marriages in The Way were disgraceful because it was done in the name of God. That is truly a cult when the religious leaders think they have the authority to say what should happen within another family. It is a sick lie that leaders think they have.
Believe me there are books upon books on Christian Marriage out there. Many of them are in the Trinity point of view, yet many contain a lot of great stuff.
CES also, has done some good things on marriage, and they, CES, get tapes from a ministry in California, I just don't have that ministries name, but some decent folks...
Anyway, what I keep on hearing and reading with the Head of the Household thing is really pretty common sense. Yes, you are the Head of the Household, its like an umbrella, and yes, you do have the final say....and yet, in practice, that priviledge doesn't come up often. The context, rights, responsibility, priviledge, all those labels, one side balances the other, priviledge and responsibility...and my spelling sucks...
in being the head of the household, your best friend, you wife is you greatest asset, your best source of opinion, her views, her feelings, the marriage is really from your point of view, all about her, so its never a good idea to cut off her feelings about issues...women perceive situations in very dramatic fashion, they know stuff, stuff that just goes in our man brain and right out again...
Here is something or a way to think about it and its from Men are from mars, women from venus...men do not listen very well, its an acquired skill...men for the most part, are problem solvers, men get with men and the thinking/problem solving hat goes on...lets get to a solution....that hat, the problem solving hat is not how women for the most part are...women like to talk and they want us to listen, listen, just listen, not us with our problem hat on, and ready to "solve" something...they come home from work and want to talk about their day, and they want us to merely listen...and again, something else, they dont' express themselves the same way, it is not linear...they may say the same thing over and over, out of what we men think is random or without order....and its really a difference, how they communicate...well, I do not want to sound like I know it all, gona break this off...yes, I have heard all sorts of opinions about the author of Men from mars, women from venus...yet, the guy has some interesting things to say about communication....and if you want, well, you get my advice anyway...its more about communication than the need to make decisions about the household...
I think what really makes a marriage work... and this is just based on my own experience.. I can not give you chapter and verse. but
When you and you mate are friends first and formost... by friends I mean you genuinely enjoy spending time together... doing mundane things and fun things... You each have things that you enjoy doing on your own and do them mostly on your own.
You respect each others opinions. and you treat each other kindly at all times(yes we all have fights and yell at each other but if you are calling each other vile names that is not good)
You treat each other like equals and value each others opinion.
The last part of the equation is physical attraction. you have to find each other exciting. This is last on my list because in reality and I am sure I have the numbers a bit wrong but in reality the sexual part of your marriage is about 10%. Yes I know when you first are together the numbers are a bit different but over your lifetime I would say 10%.
BTW I have been married 27 years now... and we met and married while in teh WAY.
The ministry totally messed that up, for many people and if you think the attitude to leave your spouse for teh word wasn't around from the early days of twi you would be wrong. I saw it happen to others myself.
Our HFC had a history of interfering in marriages, though we didn't know that until we left and compared notes the first few years with others who had left the same fellowship. At the time, we couldn't quite believe it was happening. We were pretty naive and it would never have occurred to either of us to do that to someone else.
Hubby and I meshed together well in temperament and decisions. The head of household arrangement was not really how either of us saw marriage modeled by our parents. Decisions, discussions, all seemed organic and not a power play so the heavy emphasis on Head of Household in the nineties seemed...odd, not really important. I was a grown woman, I didn't need to be treated like a 12 yr old.
After you've discussed something a dozen times and looked at different decisions it is hard to remember who really said 'let's do this.'
We were blessed to both come from families where the parents had good marriages.
I wanted to leave TWI about two yars before my husband did but I didn't want to leave without him because i saw so many divorces and ugly custody battles in our area and I didn't want that.
It's sad--there was no real reason outside of TWi ugliness for our lives to be so stressful back then. I think about how miserable we felt back then, and so many things were just fine--jobs, home, kids. Finances were not horrible like they'd been when the twins were born. But our involvement with TWI just sucked fun, money, time, interferred with family and friends. Ahh the Abundant Life!
That brings up another issue... depending on when you were in and who was leadership where you were at, some folks were mostly left alone and some were completely interfered with.
If you were at HQ didn't matter your life was interfered with no matter when you were involved with TWI
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potato
I was given very bad advice from leadership.
I was told I don't appreciate my husband (now ex) enough. my ex is a pathological liar.
I was told not to report a domestic violence event that injured one of my kids. it was a clergyman who said it. he was obligated by state law to report it himself because a minor child was endangered, but he was more concerned with how the ministry looked.
twi didn't destroy my marriage. my marriage was a wreck and a farce. twi just kept me in it 15 years longer than I should have been, and made the aftermath devastating because of years of indoctrination that I was to serve the bastard who treated me like a dog.
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waysider
Wierwille came of age in rural America during The Great Depression.
I personally think a lot of his attitudes and practices regarding women and marriage were gleaned from his personal experiences during his formative years, not from any study of the scriptures or some supposed Divine connection.
And, since he was the lead dog in the TWI pack, the other simply fell in step.
Just my opinion.
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Twinky
I like you, Copes, you sound like you have a good head on your shoulders.
Treat your wife with loving respect and your marriage will stay intact.
Never let ANYONE interfere with your marriage. The marriage is between you and your wife - not you, your wife and your twig leader.
Any man who doesn't take his wife's advice, concerns and counsel into account ignores his most valuable supporter. Such a man doesn't deserve a wife.
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Nottawayfer
I saw many bad marriages in TWI. I also saw many good marriages where it seemed the two seemed compatible and loving toward one another.
I never got any good advice from any leaders in my first disaster called marriage. My ex-husband was a closet drug user. I found out 3 years in to our marriage. We received counseling as such:
Branch Coord: I don't want to hear any of the dirty details. You two need to read "Heirs Together in the Grace of Life" from the Red Book. Then focus on that.
There was no follow-up. It was crap. We really needed to deal with issues, not cover them up with Bible verses and pretend we were honoring each other. My nature is not submissive, so it was especially hard when my "head" was being a screw up.
I don't believe someone is the head of the marriage. I honestly don't care even if the Bible says that a man is to be the head. If two people decide the dynamics of their own relationship and both are happy with that, then that's what really counts.
In my current marriage, we are equals who honor each other's opinion and make decisions together. We are honest with each other too, even if it is uncomfortable. I respect my husband much more when he can feel free to be honest with a situation.
For instance, we had a situation recently where he made a decision on a service for our home. He made a one-year contract with that service which meant we would receive that service every month. I didn't think we needed it once a month even though we get a discount that way. I thought we could have the service 3-4 times a year and I didn't remember us having a one-year contract. My husband said "You might not remember, but I told you about this when I first called about the service. We discussed having a contract back then." Because I know my mind is forgetful, I accept that even though I hate admitting I am becoming forgetful. Some people would say OK and back off instead of making waves and then carry resentment or a grudge about that subject which would cause future arguements.
All those physically and verbally abusive marriages in The Way were disgraceful because it was done in the name of God. That is truly a cult when the religious leaders think they have the authority to say what should happen within another family. It is a sick lie that leaders think they have.
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dmiller
No.
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mchud11
Copenhagen;
Believe me there are books upon books on Christian Marriage out there. Many of them are in the Trinity point of view, yet many contain a lot of great stuff.
CES also, has done some good things on marriage, and they, CES, get tapes from a ministry in California, I just don't have that ministries name, but some decent folks...
Anyway, what I keep on hearing and reading with the Head of the Household thing is really pretty common sense. Yes, you are the Head of the Household, its like an umbrella, and yes, you do have the final say....and yet, in practice, that priviledge doesn't come up often. The context, rights, responsibility, priviledge, all those labels, one side balances the other, priviledge and responsibility...and my spelling sucks...
in being the head of the household, your best friend, you wife is you greatest asset, your best source of opinion, her views, her feelings, the marriage is really from your point of view, all about her, so its never a good idea to cut off her feelings about issues...women perceive situations in very dramatic fashion, they know stuff, stuff that just goes in our man brain and right out again...
Here is something or a way to think about it and its from Men are from mars, women from venus...men do not listen very well, its an acquired skill...men for the most part, are problem solvers, men get with men and the thinking/problem solving hat goes on...lets get to a solution....that hat, the problem solving hat is not how women for the most part are...women like to talk and they want us to listen, listen, just listen, not us with our problem hat on, and ready to "solve" something...they come home from work and want to talk about their day, and they want us to merely listen...and again, something else, they dont' express themselves the same way, it is not linear...they may say the same thing over and over, out of what we men think is random or without order....and its really a difference, how they communicate...well, I do not want to sound like I know it all, gona break this off...yes, I have heard all sorts of opinions about the author of Men from mars, women from venus...yet, the guy has some interesting things to say about communication....and if you want, well, you get my advice anyway...its more about communication than the need to make decisions about the household...
have a good one...
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leafytwiglet
I think what really makes a marriage work... and this is just based on my own experience.. I can not give you chapter and verse. but
When you and you mate are friends first and formost... by friends I mean you genuinely enjoy spending time together... doing mundane things and fun things... You each have things that you enjoy doing on your own and do them mostly on your own.
You respect each others opinions. and you treat each other kindly at all times(yes we all have fights and yell at each other but if you are calling each other vile names that is not good)
You treat each other like equals and value each others opinion.
The last part of the equation is physical attraction. you have to find each other exciting. This is last on my list because in reality and I am sure I have the numbers a bit wrong but in reality the sexual part of your marriage is about 10%. Yes I know when you first are together the numbers are a bit different but over your lifetime I would say 10%.
BTW I have been married 27 years now... and we met and married while in teh WAY.
The ministry totally messed that up, for many people and if you think the attitude to leave your spouse for teh word wasn't around from the early days of twi you would be wrong. I saw it happen to others myself.
Edited for clarity .
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Twinky
Advice? No
Interference? YES!!!
***
Women are not doormats.
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Bramble
No good advice at all.
Our HFC had a history of interfering in marriages, though we didn't know that until we left and compared notes the first few years with others who had left the same fellowship. At the time, we couldn't quite believe it was happening. We were pretty naive and it would never have occurred to either of us to do that to someone else.
Hubby and I meshed together well in temperament and decisions. The head of household arrangement was not really how either of us saw marriage modeled by our parents. Decisions, discussions, all seemed organic and not a power play so the heavy emphasis on Head of Household in the nineties seemed...odd, not really important. I was a grown woman, I didn't need to be treated like a 12 yr old.
After you've discussed something a dozen times and looked at different decisions it is hard to remember who really said 'let's do this.'
We were blessed to both come from families where the parents had good marriages.
I wanted to leave TWI about two yars before my husband did but I didn't want to leave without him because i saw so many divorces and ugly custody battles in our area and I didn't want that.
It's sad--there was no real reason outside of TWi ugliness for our lives to be so stressful back then. I think about how miserable we felt back then, and so many things were just fine--jobs, home, kids. Finances were not horrible like they'd been when the twins were born. But our involvement with TWI just sucked fun, money, time, interferred with family and friends. Ahh the Abundant Life!
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leafytwiglet
That brings up another issue... depending on when you were in and who was leadership where you were at, some folks were mostly left alone and some were completely interfered with.
If you were at HQ didn't matter your life was interfered with no matter when you were involved with TWI
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