Funny, I was looking at that very thread a few hours ago.
One poster had some comments I thought were worth repeating, in particular:
(snip)
I am sorry your hearts are once again hurt and your wounds are again opened. As we approach a new year I pray that this is the last time such hurt and pain is again reintroduced into your lives. As awful as I feel right now I know that I can not even come close to how these women are feeling. I hope that posters will consider the effects of their words on these women in the future. We have all of this information archived in the greasespot I just don't see why we need to continually reintroduce it into their lives each month they deal with it everyday I'm sure as it is.
That poster had read some credible witness testimony on the thread, and concluded that trying to excuse
vpw- or suggest he didn't do anything- was hurting them, which he didn't want.
I learned a long time ago to assume nothing in this life.
I wish people would stop guessing the motives of others.
I wish people would stop assuming.
it is unreliable and a far cry from truth.
MY motive is not to defend anyone or thing but truth in matters.
When I go to the store I say rag magazines that state the famous movie star just had an alien baby or some such nonesense.
the fact is it is herald as a true story if you believe the writer and the magazine.
FACT
So you have a PUBLIC internet forum with no checks or balances other than the police who display their powers in a fight over the pecking order on the thread.
and you have juicy story that is wow wee worth many hits on a thread and full of comments.
no one knows who this person is or the motive they have to gain attention on this forum.
so you assume it must be gospel truth and defend THAT?
come on .
ok for those not so invested in the excitement of all what this forum may mean to their life it is nothing more than the magazine on the rack at the store about the alien babys.
exciting fun and juicy read , not much more to it really.
and this is what you spend you finger pointing day defending?
it is the other side of the story.
it is just another story.
is it the truth? is it ? how do YOU know that? you assume every writer on the public forum of the world wide web speaks all about what is true and no other motive could be possible such as attention or a funny to watch the people roar as they read it?
if that is what your reality comes down to: than I would say integrity has completely lost its place in this community.
and that is why it is so easily dismissed as nonesense and fun and games on the internet that is the real shame in all of this.
Because i think people could be helped out of the mess twi made for some by a community that is healthy and honest , but that is not an automatic in life and certainly not on the internet is it?
it takes truth to do that and facts that can be undisputed, and until that happens it is what it is.
to defend what you defend as truth is for those not consumed by this forum just as silly as reading a rag magazine and believing it to be true as well.
We can say or type anyting we darn well want in America does that make it truth for you?
that is exactly why I feel this can be dismissed as stupid internet games, it comes down to who is who on greasespt and who you chose to believe is telling the one and only truth.
just like twi. if your referring to the wendy book well it says she wrote a book about abusive cults... nothing about the crimes of any particular person .
to engage in sex with a minister under false pretense and trickery is a different ball of wax than rape. that happens to many everyday and it is a sad lesson learned.
and yes I do believe that is were the courts and law of america draws a line.
Dear Jeff I have never stated that anyone was lying ,that is pure fiction, fabrication on your part, and a gross misrepresentation of my viewpoint which by the way is against the rules here. Contrary to your fabricated version I have consistently presented the facts as they are. We have words ,I say this is what happened ,we have others that say a different thing that happened, those are the facts. What one chooses to believe ,how one feeeels are not, they are emotions which could be based on a variety of reasons. I'm not looking for pats on the back for being Dr. Phil of GreaseSpot, I'm looking for the factual truth . And that is at present it is undocumentable ,that may change fine with me either way, but until it does I won't make a guess as to guilt.
Dear TWI leadership abuse victims,
I can really, really relate to how TWI leadership beat people down and wore them out through verbal bullying and a core dishonesty being brought into manifestation.
I think that many of you can relate to someone who simultaneously claims to not stating anyone was lying while claiming someone is fabricating and distorting. In my universe and most folks whose sky is blue these two things are the same.
White Dove will call your claims of abuse undocumentable, but rest assured, us Greasespotters have seen this abuse before in TWI or our splinter groups and many of us are willing to take these shots. Speaking for myself I like taking these illogical and abusive shots because here at the Greasespot they are written down for all to see.
We will not suffer your experiences to be called undocumentable without firing back.
that is exactly why I feel this can be dismissed as stupid internet games, it comes down to who is who on greasespt and who you chose to believe is telling the one and only truth.
just like twi. if your referring to the wendy book well it says she wrote a book about abusive cults... nothing about the crimes of any particular person .
to engage in sex with a minister under false pretense and trickery is a different ball of wax than rape. that happens to many everyday and it is a sad lesson learned.
and yes I do believe that is were the courts and law of america draws a line.
In the courts of America in rape cases the victims have to be willing to suffer being discredited by the defense attorneys. For those whose actions and words seek to turn the Greasespot into an adversarial forum similar to the courts, I feel no hesitation by simply replying f-ck off!
I hope these victims will find peace in spite of the ones who buy the blame and incriminate the victim mentality.
The Lord hasmany rules when it comes to how sex is to played in life.
The criminal law of america has rules on what would be considered illegal or "rape".
no one has ever brought forth charges against LCM or VPW other than a civil suit that never went to trial.
many woman may have been flirted with and some may have even had sex with men they now realize wow what a fool I was and what a mistake.
that doesnt make it a crime.
wrong maybe not a crime tho. sin maybe depending on if you believe it to be so.
the way it is read here is that many scores hundred of victims got raped and never told anyone never filed charges never had an oppurtunity to even tell a soul untill decades after the man died and the internet forum was made where in they can use anonymous names etc...no checks no accountability and tell their story .
ok for one I do not even see that many stating rape, sex maybe regrettable sex maybe not rape and the numbers really do not confim "many" and one has to battle for that information on this site. soooo
if a dirty old man tries to touch your booby 30 years later come on down and tell your story.
If you had sex with a person thinking you were gonna get more praise or power or something from twi and now regret it come on here and tell your story.
some here understand and wants to hear every detail over and over and over andover again .
If you think this is about "some old guy touching your boobies", you have really, and I do mean REALLY, missed the point. How would you feel if someone, whom your daughter trusted, slipped some GHB into her drink and then had sex with her while she was incapacitated? Do you place that in the same category? For that matter, simply providing a minor with alcohol is a crime in Ohio. The legal drinking age in Ohio is 21. HQ is in Ohio. Wierwille lived in Ohio almost his entire life. Transporting someone across state lines for these sorts of activities is a federal crime. It's covered by The Mann Act. Bullying subordinates into sexual activity is sexual harassment. It's against the law. Using an office of authority for these types of purposes in Simony. It's an egregious breach of professional trust. Not only have many, many people come forth here on GSC to bear testimony, some of them are well known and their names have appeared here. And these are just the sexually oriented debacles that took place. There is much more. Things like threatening people with physical violence while brandishing firearms, plagiarism, misappropriation of funds that were intended for ministry work-----and the list goes on.
No, this is hardly about "some old guy touching your boobies 30 years ago".
The thing is thess threads are about certain poster pecking one another over who is right or wrong.
in all of these pages i read one account in which waysider posted from another thread from a valerie and that is the only reference to any violation , hardly "countless victims coming forward rather it is one or two posters who get excited about what another poster has said... yet theses testimonies of "rape" and all what waysider describes are not forth coming and the reason given they are not is because "they are attacked"
oh come on.
if the other side needs to be told and you so feel the need to let it be known for the safety of harm from a dead man then why why is it often one poster saying it happened we have testimonies from other people somwhere on this board oh yes countless rapes .
where?
oh yeah the burden comes down to the seeker to weed through all theses fights and anonymous names with stories to tell... hmmm
why not document the facts with clarity ?
and IF it is so above board why not put those testimonies in a thread to be read clearly and understood.
hmmm?
no it is once again certain posters saying it happened to this nameless faceless unaccount person and it must be the truth because they said it on a open public internet forum.
i do not but YOU do the math and for some one who does not have a vested interest in cat fights and harming another poster on a personal base after YEARS of the same discussion it is more than difficult to see clearly it is impossible,
What does sexual conduct tell us about the degree of integrity and spiritual authority of TWI leadership, past and present?
Then go here and click on "marsha".
Rumors have circulated for years that V. P. Wierwille was a sexual predator. Marsha tells her story.
Then go here and click on "Donna".
Donna adds her memories of how Wierwille abused her, too.
Then go here and click on "Kristen's Story".
Kristen's Story offers her recollections of VP Wierwille's advances toward her.
Then go here and click on "Schoenheit's Paper on Adultery".
"Schoenheit's Paper on Adultery" - Way leaders once ordered followers to have nothing to do with this Bible research paper. Many Way leaders, including author John Schoenheit (who was on staff with TWI's Research Department at the time), were fired because they had read it. Why was it so disturbing?
so everyone guilty of sexual misconduct( would this include any and all sexual misdeeds performed by all? WOW now that would be one guilty butch of folks would it not?
still isnt rape.
adultrey is wrong John S has written a paper on what the bible says about having sex with a person your not married to and also admited to being involved in the practice in his own marriage.....not rape again.
people abuse power and one another yep true in so many aspects of life common in fact !
not rape.
whee are the accusasions of rape ?
i will tell you this i have guys hit on me every single day, say sexual type conversation etc...to me metion my looks and even been trapped in rooms by a few.
men tend to do that to pretty women.
not nice yet a part of life.
even a supervisor who could get me unemployed and played the card a few times.
I say loud and clear not interested NO STOP get away.
my choice I guess.
I believe in misconduct it does take two and it takes a willingness of character to say no .
those unwilling to pay the cost may regret the outcome or just be unhappy with the reward! so they may complain .
I could lose a co-worker possibly a job but I do not and iM not afraid either.
young and foolish is one thing older and wiser is another .....
Yes it is wrong sexual misconduct happens but it does happen alot everywhere and most often only goes as far as the people involved allow it.
One of the worst things that happened to me, while associated with the Way, was I was raped by a Region Coordinator who visited our "Way home" after his teaching. We had a glass of wine and the three of us "Way home girls" went to sleep in our respective rooms. As I laid in my bed asleep, he climbed on top of me, and with my face down, I woke to him being already in progress. I tried to protest, but he put his hand over my mouth and told me, "You are blessing a man of God by taking care of my needs." I surrendered and experience what I later found to be an out-of-body experience. It was as if I was watching some woman that looked like me being pummeled by a man she hadn't accepted into her bed.
*********************************************
Glass of wine, out-of-body experience------------
Sounds an awful lot like like GHB.
(Which, at that time, was an OTC drug if I'm not mistaken.)
no names no charges no police no not that because she loved the way so much?
not blaming a victim but can this happen to any girl at any time by any one?
90percent of sexual abuse is done by a family member or close friend.
these issues are not exclusive to the way ministry but what is weird is it is thrity years after the man died and refusal to give names (do you assume VPW was the region Leader she speaks of? doubt it ya know he never went by that title.
so at the time she was afraid how about now at this writing why not name names?
could it be fear of a slander charge ? or making false accusations which is a crime?
nah not that just a nameless face less accusation . How do I know if it is true or not? that is the problem we do not.
one can file a report with the police at any time , wether the DA choses to prosecute is up to evidence yet even years after a crime such as sexual abuse additional victims come forward from previous years this is how the catholic church got sued by so many.
but no one it is vpw she names in fact she names no one . and he still has never been charged nor LCM. nor this "region leader" .
Well Dove, there are your first hand accounts ... Thank you waysider for posting that link
:) I had forgotten some of the horror. Well worth the re read to remind myself just how despicable this filthy pervert was.
Yep sounds like another side of the story.
I was not mature of a woman of God bla bla bla. He let me go back to the thefront of the motorcoach (relife) and the other 7th Corps girl went in there with him and she stayed all night.. EEUU..
What does sexual conduct tell us about the degree of integrity and spiritual authority of TWI leadership, past and present?
Then go here and click on "marsha".
Rumors have circulated for years that V. P. Wierwille was a sexual predator. Marsha tells her story.
Then go here and click on "Donna".
Donna adds her memories of how Wierwille abused her, too.
Then go here and click on "Kristen's Story".
Kristen's Story offers her recollections of VP Wierwille's advances toward her.
Then go here and click on "Schoenheit's Paper on Adultery".
"Schoenheit's Paper on Adultery" - Way leaders once ordered followers to have nothing to do with this Bible research paper. Many Way leaders, including author John Schoenheit (who was on staff with TWI's Research Department at the time), were fired because they had read it. Why was it so disturbing?
Get the picture?
I agree with pond I get the picture all right, Lets see what it says, 3 records of sexual conduct claimed not documented.
and this from your post
I was not mature of a woman of God bla bla bla. He let me go back to the thefront of the motorcoach (relife) and the other 7th Corps girl went in there with him and she stayed all night.. EEUU..
I think I said some were satisfied with the arangement. By the way I love your new math 1+1+1= 3 No wait it's 100dreds.
"not blaming a victim but can this happen to any girl at any time by any one?"
Suppose that "anyone" was your daughter.
/quote]
this i know for a fact my kids would have knocked their lightsout really quick.
they have self respect. Not to say that danger isnt out there but so is prosecution and justice which rely on truth and honesty and integrity to survive. As a victim of a horrible crime my own self while in the way the reason I was marked was because he went to jail and I pressed charges and it was a mess and he was a leader. No so sorry you rabid internet drooling for a tidbit to talk about I aint saying dates names or anything but I aint a victim and I do not blame the way that I didnt know evil people prey on innocent women they didnt know I didnt know what I do now, anymore than they knew he was the type he was.
they just didnt want people to know to focus on the drama of it all and I was very very hurt I was marked but in hind sight it was for the best because the "believers" would have taken sides etc... and I was so very hurt at the time.
I did go back almost ten years later and found out with eyes to see and ears to hear the real issues I had with twi .
Your gonna see men who abuse women who abuse in groups of people ANY groups of people the best I can hope for is the courage to take them out of commission and if twi couldnt help the law did.
I believe a girl has to have self respect and morals and christian values to be safe or guy for that matter.
these folks who use the internet to entertain their lust for sexual talk in a thread and refuse to prosecute or even metion names really are cowards and It allows everyone to stay stuck in victim mode and relish in the drama and often times sick glory of it all.
and it is all shrouded with a mystery isnt it? maybe what I just told you is the truth maybe not I do not need to tell it to "get healed" . The lord Jesus christ brings me peace and comfort in my life AND I have no fear none today is a day to rejoice I know HIM the KING of KINGS nt to spin tales on the internet .
As a victim of a horrible crime my own self while in the way the reason I was marked was because he went to jail and I pressed charges and it was a mess and he was a leader. No so sorry you rabid internet drooling for a tidbit to talk about I aint saying dates names or anything but I aint a victim and I do not blame the way that I didnt know evil people prey on innocent women they didnt know I didnt know what I do now, anymore than they knew he was the type he was.
Uhhh - slight "apparent" contradiction here Pond - you ain't "saying dates or names or anything" (above) - but if names are not mentioned then they "are cowards....and stuck in victim mode...." (below) I'm not gonna get in the thick of this thread - but uhhh - hmmmm
these folks who use the internet to entertain their lust for sexual talk in a thread and refuse to prosecute or even metion names really are cowards and It allows everyone to stay stuck in victim mode and relish in the drama and often times sick glory of it all.
Im not aksing anyone to believe me. And I am not calling for justice I saw justice . Im NOT here to tell a story I did tell those who could DO something about the problem . not for kicks on the internet.
or maybe I just made the whole thing up for kicks on the internet and THAT is the impact these types of forums .
Am I a coward when it comes to posting on the internet ?
you bet i do not post details of my life here or anywhere on the net.
IM still trying to figure out why some would come up with these testimonys I do not care to guess . to vent in a micky mouse name is fun I guess and Lord knows plenty on this site live to read them.
Peace and comfort maybe pond, but not a whole lot of compassion or understanding it would seem. Wouldn`t Jesus bring that as well for the victims? Wasn`t he kind to the woman that the folks wanted to stone, to those who were hurting?
The women you just blasted with such contempt ..those who you disgustingly accused of telling their stories for entertainment ... how would Jesus have treated them? How did he feel about the people the religious leaders of his day mistreated?? Sorry, I just don`t see much Jesus like in what you wrote at all. I see a hardness and meanness in your accusations directed at people who did nothing more than finally stood up to tell their stories. I see you attempting to justify that hardness....
As I see it, these people let us see who and what VPW really was. They told their stories when asked, and it set a lot of us free from the false doctrines that he taught, the lies that we tried to live. Frankly??? They are heroes in my book!
Yup, they told what happened to them, and even if you don`t get it or understand why they did it.... I praise God they did... It served a valid purpose and was a part of the healing post twi. I appreciate finally knowing the truth, and thank each of them for their courage in spite of creepy cruel people calling into question their veracity, their motives, their character...etc. for if they had remained silent, most of us would still be trying to live a lie...enslaved for a life time.
Dove, you were a different guy back then...I`d forgotten.
Entertainment? No, I don`t view the thread being discussed as entertaining at all. Sickening, disgusting, upsetting that the men (and women) whom we loved, trusted, supported, prayed for, sent our money to, who claimed to represent God and be able to teach us all of the answers to life and Godliness.... did this to our innocent young brothers and sisters. We were young, vulnerable, and looking for answers, we were the ages my kiddos are now. It is inexcusable, it is deeply disturbing.
Did you read the accounts? Yeah, I`d call him a rapist and a sexual predator and worse, because he used the leverage of promising God`s healing from torment and suffering to seduce, and when that failed, and the intimidation of the mog didn`t work... there was always the mystery drink offered.
Entertaining?? No, I really cannot imagine anything less funny :(
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rascal
I assume that YOUR interaction WITH people here at gs where YOU said what your actual experience was in twi was true and factual. I think you are playing word games because you don`tlike being remind
potato
actually, for the record, the claims have been documented. methinks you should go back and read the federal rules of evidence again. at this point, in a court of law, the documented testimony of vpw
waysider
Pure fabrication ,never stated such what I said was I'm not by the way seeing many here posting. You seem to be claiming guilt exactly how many rapes did you witness? I thought so you read an opinion
WordWolf
Funny, I was looking at that very thread a few hours ago.
One poster had some comments I thought were worth repeating, in particular:
That poster had read some credible witness testimony on the thread, and concluded that trying to excuse
vpw- or suggest he didn't do anything- was hurting them, which he didn't want.
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waysider
There was reference made to Wendy Ford.
HERE is a link to her book.
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pond
I learned a long time ago to assume nothing in this life.
I wish people would stop guessing the motives of others.
I wish people would stop assuming.
it is unreliable and a far cry from truth.
MY motive is not to defend anyone or thing but truth in matters.
When I go to the store I say rag magazines that state the famous movie star just had an alien baby or some such nonesense.
the fact is it is herald as a true story if you believe the writer and the magazine.
FACT
So you have a PUBLIC internet forum with no checks or balances other than the police who display their powers in a fight over the pecking order on the thread.
and you have juicy story that is wow wee worth many hits on a thread and full of comments.
no one knows who this person is or the motive they have to gain attention on this forum.
so you assume it must be gospel truth and defend THAT?
come on .
ok for those not so invested in the excitement of all what this forum may mean to their life it is nothing more than the magazine on the rack at the store about the alien babys.
exciting fun and juicy read , not much more to it really.
and this is what you spend you finger pointing day defending?
it is the other side of the story.
it is just another story.
is it the truth? is it ? how do YOU know that? you assume every writer on the public forum of the world wide web speaks all about what is true and no other motive could be possible such as attention or a funny to watch the people roar as they read it?
if that is what your reality comes down to: than I would say integrity has completely lost its place in this community.
and that is why it is so easily dismissed as nonesense and fun and games on the internet that is the real shame in all of this.
Because i think people could be helped out of the mess twi made for some by a community that is healthy and honest , but that is not an automatic in life and certainly not on the internet is it?
it takes truth to do that and facts that can be undisputed, and until that happens it is what it is.
to defend what you defend as truth is for those not consumed by this forum just as silly as reading a rag magazine and believing it to be true as well.
We can say or type anyting we darn well want in America does that make it truth for you?
good luck with that.
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waysider
"no one knows who this person is or the motive they have to gain attention on this forum."
Did you even bother to read the thread, Pond?
Not everyone who posted did so anonymously.
But since you put it that way, do we know who WD is or his motives for gaining attention on this thread?
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pond
that is exactly why I feel this can be dismissed as stupid internet games, it comes down to who is who on greasespt and who you chose to believe is telling the one and only truth.
just like twi. if your referring to the wendy book well it says she wrote a book about abusive cults... nothing about the crimes of any particular person .
to engage in sex with a minister under false pretense and trickery is a different ball of wax than rape. that happens to many everyday and it is a sad lesson learned.
and yes I do believe that is were the courts and law of america draws a line.
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waysider
No, that is not what I was referring to.
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JeffSjo
Dear TWI leadership abuse victims,
I can really, really relate to how TWI leadership beat people down and wore them out through verbal bullying and a core dishonesty being brought into manifestation.
I think that many of you can relate to someone who simultaneously claims to not stating anyone was lying while claiming someone is fabricating and distorting. In my universe and most folks whose sky is blue these two things are the same.
White Dove will call your claims of abuse undocumentable, but rest assured, us Greasespotters have seen this abuse before in TWI or our splinter groups and many of us are willing to take these shots. Speaking for myself I like taking these illogical and abusive shots because here at the Greasespot they are written down for all to see.
We will not suffer your experiences to be called undocumentable without firing back.
PEACE
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JeffSjo
In the courts of America in rape cases the victims have to be willing to suffer being discredited by the defense attorneys. For those whose actions and words seek to turn the Greasespot into an adversarial forum similar to the courts, I feel no hesitation by simply replying f-ck off!
I hope these victims will find peace in spite of the ones who buy the blame and incriminate the victim mentality.
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pond
Rape is not having sex with a person.
The Lord hasmany rules when it comes to how sex is to played in life.
The criminal law of america has rules on what would be considered illegal or "rape".
no one has ever brought forth charges against LCM or VPW other than a civil suit that never went to trial.
many woman may have been flirted with and some may have even had sex with men they now realize wow what a fool I was and what a mistake.
that doesnt make it a crime.
wrong maybe not a crime tho. sin maybe depending on if you believe it to be so.
the way it is read here is that many scores hundred of victims got raped and never told anyone never filed charges never had an oppurtunity to even tell a soul untill decades after the man died and the internet forum was made where in they can use anonymous names etc...no checks no accountability and tell their story .
ok for one I do not even see that many stating rape, sex maybe regrettable sex maybe not rape and the numbers really do not confim "many" and one has to battle for that information on this site. soooo
if a dirty old man tries to touch your booby 30 years later come on down and tell your story.
If you had sex with a person thinking you were gonna get more praise or power or something from twi and now regret it come on here and tell your story.
some here understand and wants to hear every detail over and over and over andover again .
it is their side!
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waysider
Pond
If you think this is about "some old guy touching your boobies", you have really, and I do mean REALLY, missed the point. How would you feel if someone, whom your daughter trusted, slipped some GHB into her drink and then had sex with her while she was incapacitated? Do you place that in the same category? For that matter, simply providing a minor with alcohol is a crime in Ohio. The legal drinking age in Ohio is 21. HQ is in Ohio. Wierwille lived in Ohio almost his entire life. Transporting someone across state lines for these sorts of activities is a federal crime. It's covered by The Mann Act. Bullying subordinates into sexual activity is sexual harassment. It's against the law. Using an office of authority for these types of purposes in Simony. It's an egregious breach of professional trust. Not only have many, many people come forth here on GSC to bear testimony, some of them are well known and their names have appeared here. And these are just the sexually oriented debacles that took place. There is much more. Things like threatening people with physical violence while brandishing firearms, plagiarism, misappropriation of funds that were intended for ministry work-----and the list goes on.
No, this is hardly about "some old guy touching your boobies 30 years ago".
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pond
The thing is thess threads are about certain poster pecking one another over who is right or wrong.
in all of these pages i read one account in which waysider posted from another thread from a valerie and that is the only reference to any violation , hardly "countless victims coming forward rather it is one or two posters who get excited about what another poster has said... yet theses testimonies of "rape" and all what waysider describes are not forth coming and the reason given they are not is because "they are attacked"
oh come on.
if the other side needs to be told and you so feel the need to let it be known for the safety of harm from a dead man then why why is it often one poster saying it happened we have testimonies from other people somwhere on this board oh yes countless rapes .
where?
oh yeah the burden comes down to the seeker to weed through all theses fights and anonymous names with stories to tell... hmmm
why not document the facts with clarity ?
and IF it is so above board why not put those testimonies in a thread to be read clearly and understood.
hmmm?
no it is once again certain posters saying it happened to this nameless faceless unaccount person and it must be the truth because they said it on a open public internet forum.
i do not but YOU do the math and for some one who does not have a vested interest in cat fights and harming another poster on a personal base after YEARS of the same discussion it is more than difficult to see clearly it is impossible,
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waysider
First click on this link
http://www.abouttheway.org/
Then go here and click on "sexual conduct".
What does sexual conduct tell us about the degree of integrity and spiritual authority of TWI leadership, past and present?
Then go here and click on "marsha".
Rumors have circulated for years that V. P. Wierwille was a sexual predator. Marsha tells her story.
Then go here and click on "Donna".
Donna adds her memories of how Wierwille abused her, too.
Then go here and click on "Kristen's Story".
Kristen's Story offers her recollections of VP Wierwille's advances toward her.
Then go here and click on "Schoenheit's Paper on Adultery".
"Schoenheit's Paper on Adultery" - Way leaders once ordered followers to have nothing to do with this Bible research paper. Many Way leaders, including author John Schoenheit (who was on staff with TWI's Research Department at the time), were fired because they had read it. Why was it so disturbing?
Get the picture?
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pond
sexual conduct , abuse, adultrey
words that do not define "rape".
so everyone guilty of sexual misconduct( would this include any and all sexual misdeeds performed by all? WOW now that would be one guilty butch of folks would it not?
still isnt rape.
adultrey is wrong John S has written a paper on what the bible says about having sex with a person your not married to and also admited to being involved in the practice in his own marriage.....not rape again.
people abuse power and one another yep true in so many aspects of life common in fact !
not rape.
whee are the accusasions of rape ?
i will tell you this i have guys hit on me every single day, say sexual type conversation etc...to me metion my looks and even been trapped in rooms by a few.
men tend to do that to pretty women.
not nice yet a part of life.
even a supervisor who could get me unemployed and played the card a few times.
I say loud and clear not interested NO STOP get away.
my choice I guess.
I believe in misconduct it does take two and it takes a willingness of character to say no .
those unwilling to pay the cost may regret the outcome or just be unhappy with the reward! so they may complain .
I could lose a co-worker possibly a job but I do not and iM not afraid either.
young and foolish is one thing older and wiser is another .....
Yes it is wrong sexual misconduct happens but it does happen alot everywhere and most often only goes as far as the people involved allow it.
it isnt rape
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waysider
Perhaps you missed this:
One of the worst things that happened to me, while associated with the Way, was I was raped by a Region Coordinator who visited our "Way home" after his teaching. We had a glass of wine and the three of us "Way home girls" went to sleep in our respective rooms. As I laid in my bed asleep, he climbed on top of me, and with my face down, I woke to him being already in progress. I tried to protest, but he put his hand over my mouth and told me, "You are blessing a man of God by taking care of my needs." I surrendered and experience what I later found to be an out-of-body experience. It was as if I was watching some woman that looked like me being pummeled by a man she hadn't accepted into her bed.
*********************************************
Glass of wine, out-of-body experience------------
Sounds an awful lot like like GHB.
(Which, at that time, was an OTC drug if I'm not mistaken.)
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pond
Sounda bad?
no names no charges no police no not that because she loved the way so much?
not blaming a victim but can this happen to any girl at any time by any one?
90percent of sexual abuse is done by a family member or close friend.
these issues are not exclusive to the way ministry but what is weird is it is thrity years after the man died and refusal to give names (do you assume VPW was the region Leader she speaks of? doubt it ya know he never went by that title.
so at the time she was afraid how about now at this writing why not name names?
could it be fear of a slander charge ? or making false accusations which is a crime?
nah not that just a nameless face less accusation . How do I know if it is true or not? that is the problem we do not.
one can file a report with the police at any time , wether the DA choses to prosecute is up to evidence yet even years after a crime such as sexual abuse additional victims come forward from previous years this is how the catholic church got sued by so many.
but no one it is vpw she names in fact she names no one . and he still has never been charged nor LCM. nor this "region leader" .
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waysider
"not blaming a victim but can this happen to any girl at any time by any one?"
Suppose that "anyone" was your daughter.
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WhiteDove
Yep sounds like another side of the story.
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WhiteDove
I agree with pond I get the picture all right, Lets see what it says, 3 records of sexual conduct claimed not documented.
and this from your post
I think I said some were satisfied with the arangement. By the way I love your new math 1+1+1= 3 No wait it's 100dreds.
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pond
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RumRunner
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pond
Im not aksing anyone to believe me. And I am not calling for justice I saw justice . Im NOT here to tell a story I did tell those who could DO something about the problem . not for kicks on the internet.
or maybe I just made the whole thing up for kicks on the internet and THAT is the impact these types of forums .
Am I a coward when it comes to posting on the internet ?
you bet i do not post details of my life here or anywhere on the net.
IM still trying to figure out why some would come up with these testimonys I do not care to guess . to vent in a micky mouse name is fun I guess and Lord knows plenty on this site live to read them.
fun times .
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rascal
Peace and comfort maybe pond, but not a whole lot of compassion or understanding it would seem. Wouldn`t Jesus bring that as well for the victims? Wasn`t he kind to the woman that the folks wanted to stone, to those who were hurting?
The women you just blasted with such contempt ..those who you disgustingly accused of telling their stories for entertainment ... how would Jesus have treated them? How did he feel about the people the religious leaders of his day mistreated?? Sorry, I just don`t see much Jesus like in what you wrote at all. I see a hardness and meanness in your accusations directed at people who did nothing more than finally stood up to tell their stories. I see you attempting to justify that hardness....
As I see it, these people let us see who and what VPW really was. They told their stories when asked, and it set a lot of us free from the false doctrines that he taught, the lies that we tried to live. Frankly??? They are heroes in my book!
Yup, they told what happened to them, and even if you don`t get it or understand why they did it.... I praise God they did... It served a valid purpose and was a part of the healing post twi. I appreciate finally knowing the truth, and thank each of them for their courage in spite of creepy cruel people calling into question their veracity, their motives, their character...etc. for if they had remained silent, most of us would still be trying to live a lie...enslaved for a life time.
Dove, you were a different guy back then...I`d forgotten.
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pond
false doctrines is one discussion.
Callin somone a Rapist and a sexual preditor is something eles isnt it Rascal?
What I said is I do not know anyones motives but this forum is for the entertainment of the readers and the posters is it not?
it claims to tell the other story and it does a story with very little verifiable truth to it.
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rascal
Entertainment? No, I don`t view the thread being discussed as entertaining at all. Sickening, disgusting, upsetting that the men (and women) whom we loved, trusted, supported, prayed for, sent our money to, who claimed to represent God and be able to teach us all of the answers to life and Godliness.... did this to our innocent young brothers and sisters. We were young, vulnerable, and looking for answers, we were the ages my kiddos are now. It is inexcusable, it is deeply disturbing.
Did you read the accounts? Yeah, I`d call him a rapist and a sexual predator and worse, because he used the leverage of promising God`s healing from torment and suffering to seduce, and when that failed, and the intimidation of the mog didn`t work... there was always the mystery drink offered.
Entertaining?? No, I really cannot imagine anything less funny :(
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