Welcome, Soul Searcher. Enjoy looking around the Cafe. You'll find a variety of views represented here. Some still harbor Way-like views, and others will run a mile.
I have to say, I met some of the best, most decent people ever, at TWI. There were a lot of good folks who genuinely wanted to do good for God. They were enthusiastic - for God. For the most part, I haven't found that level of commitment in churches or in other Christians. It's my guess that most of those decent people have been run off, banned, or left of their own accord. Alternatively, they have been lured and corrupted to fit with the general ethos of TWI.
On the other hand, I also met some of the meanest, most uncompassionate, legalistic b@$tards ever. So full of rules, all done with a smile, because it's God's will, doncha know? Bent on curtailing anything spontaneous, wherever it emanated from.
As for high-ranking leadership, there are horror stories abounding here.
But it's safe to say, there are a lot of horror stories in mainstream churches too, about some of the evil things that leadership did there - eg, pedophilia and child abuse by RC priests.
How has your friend's marriage turned out? Are she and her husband still together? If so...do they actually trust each other?
I have to say, I met some of the best, most decent people ever, at TWI. There were a lot of good folks who genuinely wanted to do good for God. They were enthusiastic - for God. For the most part, I haven't found that level of commitment in churches or in other Christians. It's my guess that most of those decent people have been run off, banned, or left of their own accord. Alternatively, they have been lured and corrupted to fit with the general ethos of TWI.
I can tell from reading the posts in this forum that there were many good people who were misled, to some degree or another, by the Way ministry. I don't judge them. As you said, most of the people who were (or still are) in TWI are nice people with great hearts for God.
How has your friend's marriage turned out? Are she and her husband still together? If so...do they actually trust each other?
My friend's marriage is on the rocks and will probably end soon. Her husband is still in TWI and probably will be for life. Ironically, TWI probably kept them together for many years. He would often manipulate her with quotes from scripture (wives submit to your husbands, etc.) or condemn her if she threatened to leave (you'll lose your eternal rewards, etc.). Now that she's quit TWI she can step back and see how badly she was treated by both hubby and TWI.
Your friend will need a lot of time and patience. It's no easy thing, losing the ministry, church, what-have-you, that has been such a big part of one's life. Losing a husband, who has been another big part of one's life. Losing a significant part of one's own thinking ability, crushed beneath the weight of legalism.
It may help to point her to the Cafe, where she will see that what has happened to her is part of a pattern of behavior towards women. It may not help.
Be a friend, if she will let you. Even if she won't. Expect erratic behavior. Be very patient, very kind, very gentle.
Your friend will need a lot of time and patience. It's no easy thing, losing the ministry, church, what-have-you, that has been such a big part of one's life.
Boy, you said it! She steadfastly clings to certain ideas like the Bible interprets itself, mathematical presicion, everything fits like a hand in a glove, etc. I don't know how true some of that is, so I don't push it.
One "discussion" we had recently had to do with the accuracy of the four gospels. She says it is perfect: authored (breathed) by God and God is perfect, therefore the text must be perfect. I say it's authored by God, written by men, and the hands of men are not perfect. Even if it was recorded perfectly by divine inspiration, it's been translated many times and the originals are not available. Remember the "telephone" game when you were a kid? (I think that's what is was called.) Somebody whispers a simple message into the ear of the 1st person, who then whispers it into the ear of the 2nd person, etc. By the time the message comes out of the other end, it's mangled.
Losing a husband, who has been another big part of one's life.
The husband, she can and will do without. TWI's teachings, on the other hand...
It may help to point her to the Cafe, where she will see that what has happened to her is part of a pattern of behavior towards women. It may not help.
She knows about GS but considers many of you to be negative, angry and bitter. I send her threads from the forum that I think would enlighten her. She reads them but I don't know how much she absorbs.
Be a friend, if she will let you. Even if she won't. Expect erratic behavior. Be very patient, very kind, very gentle.
Thanks, Twinky. Our frienship is solid but I try not to badger her too much with my opinions. I'm trying to be as patient, kind and gentle as I can. :)
She knows about GS but considers many of you to be negative, angry and bitter. I send her threads from the forum that I think would enlighten her. She reads them but I don't know how much she absorbs.
To be sure, some here are negative, angry and bitter, about the whole of their TWI experience. A good many of us are not. But we do take negative, angry views of TWI's abuse of people. (And it certainly has been abuse!)
But heck, God has negative, angry views about abuse of people! And just ask her how many times, Rev (?:P) Craig Martindale expressed negative, angry views about so many people. I heard more abuse, slander, foul language, anger from that man than I've ever heard before. Foaming at the mouth in his so-called "spiritual anger." If she's been in 20 years, she's seen plenty of that.
Part of her difficulty may be that she has suppressed genuine emotions, concerns, and questions for so very long. And these have been replaced by fear of doing the wrong thing, asking the wrong question, and not doing exactly what has been "suggested" to her. Women were systematically put down and their confidence eroded - they are supposed to "submit" to just about anything. Waybrain takes a lot to overcome. To start with, right now what she's been taught is her her "security blanket" and for a while she might become even more Waybrained as she does her best to hang onto whatever she thinks she knows. How quickly she overcomes this may depend on why exactly she left. It seems to have been of her own accord, but something was the last straw.
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WordWolf
Welcome.
Besides a variety of flavors of non-Christian, we have Christians of a pretty wide
variety who post here from time to time. You'll find your beliefs are probably already
represented here.
Then again, that really doesn't matter. Posting here with manners and kindness count
for a lot more around here than one's creed, convictions or beliefs.
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Twinky
Welcome, Soul Searcher. Enjoy looking around the Cafe. You'll find a variety of views represented here. Some still harbor Way-like views, and others will run a mile.
I have to say, I met some of the best, most decent people ever, at TWI. There were a lot of good folks who genuinely wanted to do good for God. They were enthusiastic - for God. For the most part, I haven't found that level of commitment in churches or in other Christians. It's my guess that most of those decent people have been run off, banned, or left of their own accord. Alternatively, they have been lured and corrupted to fit with the general ethos of TWI.
On the other hand, I also met some of the meanest, most uncompassionate, legalistic b@$tards ever. So full of rules, all done with a smile, because it's God's will, doncha know? Bent on curtailing anything spontaneous, wherever it emanated from.
As for high-ranking leadership, there are horror stories abounding here.
But it's safe to say, there are a lot of horror stories in mainstream churches too, about some of the evil things that leadership did there - eg, pedophilia and child abuse by RC priests.
How has your friend's marriage turned out? Are she and her husband still together? If so...do they actually trust each other?
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soul searcher
I can tell from reading the posts in this forum that there were many good people who were misled, to some degree or another, by the Way ministry. I don't judge them. As you said, most of the people who were (or still are) in TWI are nice people with great hearts for God.
My friend's marriage is on the rocks and will probably end soon. Her husband is still in TWI and probably will be for life. Ironically, TWI probably kept them together for many years. He would often manipulate her with quotes from scripture (wives submit to your husbands, etc.) or condemn her if she threatened to leave (you'll lose your eternal rewards, etc.). Now that she's quit TWI she can step back and see how badly she was treated by both hubby and TWI.
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Twinky
Your friend will need a lot of time and patience. It's no easy thing, losing the ministry, church, what-have-you, that has been such a big part of one's life. Losing a husband, who has been another big part of one's life. Losing a significant part of one's own thinking ability, crushed beneath the weight of legalism.
It may help to point her to the Cafe, where she will see that what has happened to her is part of a pattern of behavior towards women. It may not help.
Be a friend, if she will let you. Even if she won't. Expect erratic behavior. Be very patient, very kind, very gentle.
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cheranne
Good Idea to have a Q and A for (Non Members,I am sure they have loads of questions)
Bring It.
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soul searcher
Boy, you said it! She steadfastly clings to certain ideas like the Bible interprets itself, mathematical presicion, everything fits like a hand in a glove, etc. I don't know how true some of that is, so I don't push it.
One "discussion" we had recently had to do with the accuracy of the four gospels. She says it is perfect: authored (breathed) by God and God is perfect, therefore the text must be perfect. I say it's authored by God, written by men, and the hands of men are not perfect. Even if it was recorded perfectly by divine inspiration, it's been translated many times and the originals are not available. Remember the "telephone" game when you were a kid? (I think that's what is was called.) Somebody whispers a simple message into the ear of the 1st person, who then whispers it into the ear of the 2nd person, etc. By the time the message comes out of the other end, it's mangled.
The husband, she can and will do without. TWI's teachings, on the other hand...
She knows about GS but considers many of you to be negative, angry and bitter. I send her threads from the forum that I think would enlighten her. She reads them but I don't know how much she absorbs.
Thanks, Twinky. Our frienship is solid but I try not to badger her too much with my opinions. I'm trying to be as patient, kind and gentle as I can. :)
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Twinky
To be sure, some here are negative, angry and bitter, about the whole of their TWI experience. A good many of us are not. But we do take negative, angry views of TWI's abuse of people. (And it certainly has been abuse!)
But heck, God has negative, angry views about abuse of people! And just ask her how many times, Rev (?:P) Craig Martindale expressed negative, angry views about so many people. I heard more abuse, slander, foul language, anger from that man than I've ever heard before. Foaming at the mouth in his so-called "spiritual anger." If she's been in 20 years, she's seen plenty of that.
Part of her difficulty may be that she has suppressed genuine emotions, concerns, and questions for so very long. And these have been replaced by fear of doing the wrong thing, asking the wrong question, and not doing exactly what has been "suggested" to her. Women were systematically put down and their confidence eroded - they are supposed to "submit" to just about anything. Waybrain takes a lot to overcome. To start with, right now what she's been taught is her her "security blanket" and for a while she might become even more Waybrained as she does her best to hang onto whatever she thinks she knows. How quickly she overcomes this may depend on why exactly she left. It seems to have been of her own accord, but something was the last straw.
PM me if you like.
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