I'm sorry you had such a bad experience last time you engaged in this topic on this forum. I accept that you mean no offense, but simply want to offer another perspective – your perspective. Likewise, please accept that disagreements with your perspective are not offered to offend.
"Concerning the verses in Matthew about gathering in His name.....looking at the context I believe that this particular passage is referencing church discipline. It is not directly related to fellowship with other Christians."
Though the verses referenced are concerning church discipline, they most certainly relate to fellowship with other Christians. Though the immediate context concerns serious discipline in the church, there is nothing in the immediate context or the remote context to indicate that these verses are not true wherever believers are gathered in his name. If anything, there is the truth that where any one of us walk in his name, he is there. But one does not a church make, & we are talking about Jesus being among us when we are gathered in his name. I hope you don't argue the truth of that. If so, I guess we just disagree. You went on for quite a while about that, but if you don't disagree that Jesus is among we who gather in his name, I don't see why to continue that argument.
I am not sure exactly what you are trying to say here. Those verses in Matthew are speaking of church discipline. We agree!! What other meaning are you trying to extrapolate from them? Isn't it a paraphrase from Deut. for requirements when accusing someone? Jesus did quote from Duet. more than any other book. Matt. 18 is speaking to authority from the Lord to remove someone from the church. He is with them when they gather in His name. Gather in His name for what? What is the context? Church discipline. For who? People tasked with the responsibility of church discipline.
I really don't see how you can declare it is referencing fellowship in another way? Because the immediate or remote context doesn't contradict what you are saying? It sounds nice......but these verses are speaking to a very serious matter. Not fellowship among the saints, but the authority from the Lord to remove a saint from the church.
We may be talking about Jesus being among us when we are gathered in His name, but those verses are speaking to specifics for a purpose.
Ironic that it is specific to church discipline....which would imply structure....authority ....intimate knowledge of another persons life and sin.....it would mean congregation of some kind. . . . accountability. I don't think they were going to pull someone off the street and remove them from their church.
Maybe that is just a simplistic understanding.
There are specific promises Jesus gave us to be with us always even until the end. To dwell within us!! There are numerous examples of that and they are beautiful.....many wonderful promises. Enough, so that we can take each one and learn from it. Learn about church discipline and learn about fellowship among the saints.....
Jesus had to expound on the ten commandments as specific as they were, because the immediate or remote context didn't say anything about hating .... just murder. Maybe you could hate your brother as long as you didn't kill him....maybe lust after someone in your heart as long as you didn't commit adultery.....the ten commandments didn't contradict that. I really don't think we can read into scripture.
VP used this verse to support the idea that there must be three people minimum to have a twig(church).Look where that got us.
"Why not just say "I don't like church". Because, although you present yourself as just SIMPLY offering another perspective, that statement presents the author as presenting, not a simple perspective, but a simpleton one. It seems to me by your post that you think that the author does that, but I disagree. He is not as narrow-minded as you think.
"Well, yes, but the difference is.....the author made up his pastor and church.....he took the nastiest caricature he could create.......the book is fiction. The author took stereotyping quite seriously. It may have been loosely autobiographical....but it is one mans opinion based on an experience with an abusive church."
Again, he is of a broader mind than your perspective allows you to perceive.
"The book doesn't really give us a viable alternative IMO."
Sorry, but the working of the Body of Christ IS viable.
"We should be sharing others burdens and journey. We should be walking along side others. But, does that wandering…"
I must not be understanding what you're saying here. Are you really saying that sharing other's burdens and journey and walking along side others is wandering???
"…replace the need for a church home?" I don't read the need for a church home anywhere in the bible. Believers in community as the family of God as they follow Jesus – does that need to even be compared to a church home?
Do you have in your church institution "consistent fellowship,"and "a close Christian family?"
If so, great. Again, the author would be blessed at that. His point is that the church structure within which you enjoy that does not foster the consistency of that fellowship.
I guess I wasn't clear.....I wasn't speaking about the author here.....I was speaking about people who use the scriptures and personal opinion to dismiss the model we have for church. It is like saying we don't need to go to church because we are the church or, if we have a few gathered in His name as we roll on down the road it is the same thing. If you read Acts....they were continually in the Temple....several Epistles are written to specific churches.....the first seven chapters of revelation are written to seven specific churches. Jesus Himself was devout and went to Temple. There has always been a model and example for us to follow of corporate gathering and worship by the saints. A church home. But, you know, if people don't like the model we have adopted....they don't like it.To each his own.
For me....I used to think God kept me out of church because it wasn't good for me ......until one day it dawned on me.....it probably wasn't me He was protecting from some church...but, them from me! :)
I am done here though.....I had enough of this topic last summer. Enjoy the book.
I am not sure exactly what you are trying to say here. Those verses in Matthew are speaking of church discipline. We agree!! What other meaning are you trying to extrapolate from them? Isn't it a paraphrase from Deut. for requirements when accusing someone?
Simply put that Jesus is in the midst of those gathered in his name, period. That doesn't become the truth only in church discipline context. It IS the truth that Jesus was applying to church discipline because it is the truth.
Just as an aside, extrapolation is not necessarily a bad thing. That's exactly what Jesus was doing to Deut., else you would be stoning people instead of throwing them out of your churches. On the other hand, to indicate that Jesus is not in the midst of those who gather in his name UNLESS the context is church discipline is not justified IMO.
Jesus had to expound on the ten commandments as specific as they were, because the immediate or remote context didn't say anything about hating .... just murder. ... I really don't think we can read into scripture.
I would just like to add that this book is talking about Jesus leading and people following - the Body of Christ in action, something that wasn't available in the temple model (yes, now we are the temple something that will burst the old wineskin temple model).
The Body of Christ in action is something that wasn't available either in the Way Tree church model that Jethro advised Moses to adopt. When I first got involved with The Way:
There was no Way Tree: We fellowshipped daily from house to house, and we fellowshipped in churches with steeples on top. Although there were basically fellowships that met in certain homes, the homes many times changed, & people often went to fellowship wherever they wanted to. And when we weren't doing that, we were, nevertheless together doing all kinds of things together, daily. Joints and bands ministering growth to the body in love Ephesians calls it - all coming from the head, Christ. It is not the impossible dream unless you stifle it with a structure.
There was no WOW program: God really did tell people where to go to move the Word, & they really did go, & the Word really did move.
There was no $ to HQ: We took care of each other. It worked; there was no lack.
There was no Way Corps: Jesus did a wonderful job of organizing everything, signs, miracles, and wonders following as we followed him.
It is not a fairy tale written by a guy with a bad experience in an abusive church.
IT REALLY, REALLY WORKS! It is the Body of Christ. It is the Word. It is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
Then the Way Corps came into town, & told us we weren't following the Way Tree, cut up all those beautiful family lines of ministering that Jesus had put together, told us who we had to go to for teaching and ministering.
That was only the beginning of the road down.
A Church Model? Absolutely! Straight out of Moses and Jethro. Somehow, I don't think a temple model would have been any better. God doesn't dwell in temples made with hands. Neither does his real temple, the Body of Christ.
Bride: "Where two or three are gathered....there I will be in their midst." Not questioning your intent here, Bride, but, just pointing out that there is a lot in that ellipsis (...). Jesus is not in the midst of those who gather any more than you are the Bride of anyolewho. You are the brideOFJC, just as Jesus is in the midst of those who are gathered IN HIS NAME. Just because people started going to buildings with steeples that became known as THE church of the Lord Jesus Christ doesn't mean it was the church of the Lord Jesus Christ any more than people who gather in homes (because that's the way the 1st century church gathered) are necessarily gathering in his name. The early believers achieved the reality of Jesus in their lives because they followed him, not because they followed principles such as the church in the home. No "church," mega church or church in the home, or any combination of those, pretenting to the name "The Church" attains justifiably that name - that we should listen to the Holy Spirit to lead us to the place where we belong. Those who truly trust in the Holy Spirit accept His truth that we are already placed in the Body where it pleases Him. Any other "trust" in the Lord is misplaced. We should just trust that God is placing us in fellowship with others who are likewise believing the truth of the present reality of the One Body - accessing by believing the grace wherein we stand. "Believing" God to place us, when he already has, precludes his sufficiency and replaces his sufficiency with an institutional requirement to access his grace.
Sufficient in Him,
Tom
The reality of having the Lord Jesus Christ in your life and thus His teachings being manifested in your life is what constitutes you as a true member of the Church. As I said before, though a group of people may meet in a building with a steeple or even in the home, if they are not His Disciple, then they are none of His in all reality. "Though I give my body to be burned..." Same idea. One can go through the show and still not be the real McCoy.
I'm wondering if anyone who has read this book, if they also happened to read one of Frank Viola's OLDER books such as "Rethinking the Wineskins" (now out of print). Just wondering if they are pretty similar?
Granted I think there is much to today's "church organization" structures that can hinder the body, but I also think the pendulum can be swung too far the other way.
Simply put that Jesus is in the midst of those gathered in his name, period. That doesn't become the truth only in church discipline context. It IS the truth that Jesus was applying to church discipline because it is the truth.
Really?
So, people who handle snakes and meet in Jesus name......He is in the midst of that? People who roll on the floor, froth at the mouth, and are slain in the spirit meet in His name....He is with them in this? Benny Hinn.....he and his throngs who meet in Jesus name. The Lord is there celebrating that ? When Fred Phelps gathers his congregation in Jesus name.....Jesus is there? I really don't believe Jesus has much to do with any of those things.
Anyone can invoke the name of Jesus. As Bride so wonderfully pointed out.....it doesn't make it genuine.
Tom, I love that you use phrases like "The body of Christ in action"or " Believers in community as the family of God as they follow Jesus." You have just described a Christian church .... a Christian ministry, a persecuted church. I don't believe these are vague concepts or ideas, but what lives in our Christian churches right now. :) After all....this is where Christians come together!
I didn't say that. I didn't mean that. I suspect you know that.
Simply put that Jesus is in the midst of those gathered in his name, period. That doesn't become the truth only in church discipline context. It IS the truth that Jesus was applying to church discipline because it is the truth.
That is what you wrote...if you meant something else......my mistake. I simply am pointing out that what you wrote is not true. Anyone can meet in Jesus name....I really am not trying to play gotcha Tom....but you have to understand....there is a much deeper truth in these chapters.
Jesus starts off with the humility of a child that all true believers must have....and then moves to the lost and found parables.....of which the verse in question is directly related . GOD'S ultimate goal is redemptive and restorative.
Taking verse 16 out of the direct context of the parable of the lost sheep is missing the point....see where He moves next with forgiving 70 X 7, the debtor situation with the servants......and then closes with forgiveness.
Taking that one verse and applying it to something it isn't being applied to may cause us to miss the whole point. It is not about fellowship among believers......but it is about God's huge forgiveness and our lack of understanding of it. About our lack of humility.
It runs so deep. Don't even try to take it and make it fit elsewhere...because where it is and what it reveals about God's nature is so vast and beautiful......it doesn't need another context.
Simply put that Jesus is in the midst of those gathered in his name, period. That doesn't become the truth only in church discipline context. It IS the truth that Jesus was applying to church discipline because it is the truth.
That is what you wrote...if you meant something else......my mistake. I simply am pointing out that what you wrote is not true. Anyone can meet in Jesus name....I really am not trying to play gotcha Tom....but you have to understand....there is a much deeper truth in these chapters.
Jesus starts off with the humility of a child that all true believers must have....and then moves to the lost and found parables.....of which the verse in question is directly related . GOD'S ultimate goal is redemptive and restorative.
Taking verse 16 out of the direct context of the parable of the lost sheep is missing the point....see where He moves next with forgiving 70 X 7, the debtor situation with the servants......and then closes with forgiveness.
Taking that one verse and applying it to something it isn't being applied to may cause us to miss the whole point. It is not about fellowship among believers......but it is about God's huge forgiveness and our lack of understanding of it. About our lack of humility.
It runs so deep. Don't even try to take it and make it fit elsewhere...because where it is and what it reveals about God's nature is so vast and beautiful......it doesn't need another context.
“I simply am pointing out that what you wrote is not true. Anyone can meet in Jesus name....”
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
These many are SAYING to the Lord that they are doing this or that in his name, but they are not really; really, they are working iniquity. Obviously, I am not talking about people who are just SAYING that they are gathering in the name of Jesus, but those who really are.
If you are saying that Jesus is NOT among those who gather in his name, then I don’t know what to say in response – enjoy whatever community you feel among those you gather with in whomever’s or whatever’s name you are gathering?
But, on the other hand, if you believe that when you gather with others in his name, he is in your midst, then it is the truth that he is in the midst of those who gather in his name – whether you are, at the time, kicking people out of your church or not. It is either the truth that he is in the midst of his followers, or it is not.
I don’t argue the depth of Jesus’ application of that truth in Matthew. Quite frankly, that is off topic. He still is in the midst of those who follow him.
Nevertheless, the vastness and beauty of his application of that truth in Matthew is no less vast or beautiful in its application in or outside an institution. THAT’s on topic. That Jesus is in the midst of those gathering in his name is true wherever true followers gather.
But, if you insist that is only true in the context of Matthew (despite the fact that I feel sorry for your community when you gather that he is not there), and that it doesn’t need another context, I can only say, then don’t add an institutional context requirement. All your possible inferences aside, Jesus didn’t add that requirement, I don’t, & the book never did.
Maybe it is only the institutional environment that is your perspective that limits your perspective of the sufficiency of the Body to operate without it.
I’m an English teacher. I teach my students that anything added to their text that is not necessary, detracts. We are sufficient in him. Institutions, made by the hands of man, well you get the idea – or not.
Thankful for everything Jesus is doing in your life,
"I simply am pointing out that what you wrote is not true. Anyone can meet in Jesus name...."
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
These many are SAYING to the Lord that they are doing this or that in his name, but they are not really; really, they are working iniquity. Obviously, I am not talking about people who are just SAYING that they are gathering in the name of Jesus, but those who really are.
If you are saying that Jesus is NOT among those who gather in his name, then I don't know what to say in response – enjoy whatever community you feel among those you gather with in whomever's or whatever's name you are gathering?
But, on the other hand, if you believe that when you gather with others in his name, he is in your midst, then it is the truth that he is in the midst of those who gather in his name – whether you are, at the time, kicking people out of your church or not. It is either the truth that he is in the midst of his followers, or it is not.
I don't argue the depth of Jesus' application of that truth in Matthew. Quite frankly, that is off topic. He still is in the midst of those who follow him.
Nevertheless, the vastness and beauty of his application of that truth in Matthew is no less vast or beautiful in its application in or outside an institution. THAT's on topic. That Jesus is in the midst of those gathering in his name is true wherever true followers gather.
But, if you insist that is only true in the context of Matthew (despite the fact that I feel sorry for your community when you gather that he is not there), and that it doesn't need another context, I can only say, then don't add an institutional context requirement. All your possible inferences aside, Jesus didn't add that requirement, I don't, & the book never did.
Maybe it is only the institutional environment that is your perspective that limits your perspective of the sufficiency of the Body to operate without it.
I'm an English teacher. I teach my students that anything added to their text that is not necessary, detracts. We are sufficient in him. Institutions, made by the hands of man, well you get the idea – or not.
Thankful for everything Jesus is doing in your life,
Tom
I will have few bumper stickers made and mail them to you......you seem fond of bumper sticker Christianity.
Even with my limited perspective, apparently created by the institutional environment I obviously must immerse myself in.....and the pity inducing state of my spiritual welfare and that of my "community".......because I don't take a stand alone verse and attach some vague metaphysical meaning to it which it was never meant to have........and the zig-zag.... yet razor sharp line of topic boundry which I have somehow crossed by trying to take make the point that..... the depth of this section of scripture actually reveals God's magnanimous nature in forgiveness.....even with all that against me.....I can discern that this conversation is a complete waste of my time. (How is that for a run-on sentence teach?)
Ill assume the best of intentions on your part. Thanks for trying. And thank you for sharing the context of Jesus' presence in Matthew. It really is quite beautiful.
Newlife, you asked for comments after posters read the book. Well, I am about 1/2 way through the audio book, & must say that I am pleasantly surprised that the book; although, I expected to enjoy it, has far surpassed my expectations.
One surprise was that I saw that TWI incorporated was sooo just another church. The parallels were impossible to escape, the identity easily seen. It was very freeing in an ultimate sort of way.
Another pleasant surprise was the emphasis on following Jesus & the consequent reality of community & family.
Yo, Sunesis, if you are reading this, get the book; you'll love it.
Newlife, thanks so much for the recommendation. I really appreciate it.
Tom
Well, I finished the book. Not much to add to what I said above, except when I said, "One surprise was that I saw that TWI incorporated was sooo just another church," I hadn't read the comments on the previous page yet about TWI being or not being a church.
Also, someone on page 1 said that they never wanted the book to end. I can agree. I was sorry when I came to the end of it that there was no more. Of course, there is more - the emergence of the truths that it contains in our lives:).
Tom, especially appreciated your posts. It is the way it was meant to be I believe. "The Church" is suppose to be on the move....people involved with people, sharing, giving, etc. and everyone following Christ and doing and going where he directs.
Amazed Tom about how TWI was in the beginning....interesting how it went down.
I hope everyone that reads the book enjoys the "freedom". I did.......
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geisha779
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Tom
Simply put that Jesus is in the midst of those gathered in his name, period. That doesn't become the truth only in church discipline context. It IS the truth that Jesus was applying to church discipline because it is the truth.
Just as an aside, extrapolation is not necessarily a bad thing. That's exactly what Jesus was doing to Deut., else you would be stoning people instead of throwing them out of your churches. On the other hand, to indicate that Jesus is not in the midst of those who gather in his name UNLESS the context is church discipline is not justified IMO.
Jesus is expounding; I'm reading into - pschaw.
Apparently not :)
Thanks.
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Tom
I would just like to add that this book is talking about Jesus leading and people following - the Body of Christ in action, something that wasn't available in the temple model (yes, now we are the temple something that will burst the old wineskin temple model).
The Body of Christ in action is something that wasn't available either in the Way Tree church model that Jethro advised Moses to adopt. When I first got involved with The Way:
There was no Way Tree: We fellowshipped daily from house to house, and we fellowshipped in churches with steeples on top. Although there were basically fellowships that met in certain homes, the homes many times changed, & people often went to fellowship wherever they wanted to. And when we weren't doing that, we were, nevertheless together doing all kinds of things together, daily. Joints and bands ministering growth to the body in love Ephesians calls it - all coming from the head, Christ. It is not the impossible dream unless you stifle it with a structure.
There was no WOW program: God really did tell people where to go to move the Word, & they really did go, & the Word really did move.
There was no $ to HQ: We took care of each other. It worked; there was no lack.
There was no Way Corps: Jesus did a wonderful job of organizing everything, signs, miracles, and wonders following as we followed him.
It is not a fairy tale written by a guy with a bad experience in an abusive church.
IT REALLY, REALLY WORKS! It is the Body of Christ. It is the Word. It is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
Then the Way Corps came into town, & told us we weren't following the Way Tree, cut up all those beautiful family lines of ministering that Jesus had put together, told us who we had to go to for teaching and ministering.
That was only the beginning of the road down.
A Church Model? Absolutely! Straight out of Moses and Jethro. Somehow, I don't think a temple model would have been any better. God doesn't dwell in temples made with hands. Neither does his real temple, the Body of Christ.
Tom
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brideofjc
The reality of having the Lord Jesus Christ in your life and thus His teachings being manifested in your life is what constitutes you as a true member of the Church. As I said before, though a group of people may meet in a building with a steeple or even in the home, if they are not His Disciple, then they are none of His in all reality. "Though I give my body to be burned..." Same idea. One can go through the show and still not be the real McCoy.
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Tom
:) , Amen, sister.
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TrustAndObey
I'm wondering if anyone who has read this book, if they also happened to read one of Frank Viola's OLDER books such as "Rethinking the Wineskins" (now out of print). Just wondering if they are pretty similar?
Granted I think there is much to today's "church organization" structures that can hinder the body, but I also think the pendulum can be swung too far the other way.
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geisha779
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Tom
I didn't say that. I didn't mean that. I suspect you know that.
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geisha779
Simply put that Jesus is in the midst of those gathered in his name, period. That doesn't become the truth only in church discipline context. It IS the truth that Jesus was applying to church discipline because it is the truth.
That is what you wrote...if you meant something else......my mistake. I simply am pointing out that what you wrote is not true. Anyone can meet in Jesus name....I really am not trying to play gotcha Tom....but you have to understand....there is a much deeper truth in these chapters.
Jesus starts off with the humility of a child that all true believers must have....and then moves to the lost and found parables.....of which the verse in question is directly related . GOD'S ultimate goal is redemptive and restorative.
Taking verse 16 out of the direct context of the parable of the lost sheep is missing the point....see where He moves next with forgiving 70 X 7, the debtor situation with the servants......and then closes with forgiveness.
Taking that one verse and applying it to something it isn't being applied to may cause us to miss the whole point. It is not about fellowship among believers......but it is about God's huge forgiveness and our lack of understanding of it. About our lack of humility.
It runs so deep. Don't even try to take it and make it fit elsewhere...because where it is and what it reveals about God's nature is so vast and beautiful......it doesn't need another context.
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Tom
“I simply am pointing out that what you wrote is not true. Anyone can meet in Jesus name....”
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
These many are SAYING to the Lord that they are doing this or that in his name, but they are not really; really, they are working iniquity. Obviously, I am not talking about people who are just SAYING that they are gathering in the name of Jesus, but those who really are.
If you are saying that Jesus is NOT among those who gather in his name, then I don’t know what to say in response – enjoy whatever community you feel among those you gather with in whomever’s or whatever’s name you are gathering?
But, on the other hand, if you believe that when you gather with others in his name, he is in your midst, then it is the truth that he is in the midst of those who gather in his name – whether you are, at the time, kicking people out of your church or not. It is either the truth that he is in the midst of his followers, or it is not.
I don’t argue the depth of Jesus’ application of that truth in Matthew. Quite frankly, that is off topic. He still is in the midst of those who follow him.
Nevertheless, the vastness and beauty of his application of that truth in Matthew is no less vast or beautiful in its application in or outside an institution. THAT’s on topic. That Jesus is in the midst of those gathering in his name is true wherever true followers gather.
But, if you insist that is only true in the context of Matthew (despite the fact that I feel sorry for your community when you gather that he is not there), and that it doesn’t need another context, I can only say, then don’t add an institutional context requirement. All your possible inferences aside, Jesus didn’t add that requirement, I don’t, & the book never did.
Maybe it is only the institutional environment that is your perspective that limits your perspective of the sufficiency of the Body to operate without it.
I’m an English teacher. I teach my students that anything added to their text that is not necessary, detracts. We are sufficient in him. Institutions, made by the hands of man, well you get the idea – or not.
Thankful for everything Jesus is doing in your life,
Tom
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geisha779
I will have few bumper stickers made and mail them to you......you seem fond of bumper sticker Christianity.
Even with my limited perspective, apparently created by the institutional environment I obviously must immerse myself in.....and the pity inducing state of my spiritual welfare and that of my "community".......because I don't take a stand alone verse and attach some vague metaphysical meaning to it which it was never meant to have........and the zig-zag.... yet razor sharp line of topic boundry which I have somehow crossed by trying to take make the point that..... the depth of this section of scripture actually reveals God's magnanimous nature in forgiveness.....even with all that against me.....I can discern that this conversation is a complete waste of my time. (How is that for a run-on sentence teach?)
Well you get the idea - or not.
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Tom
Unnecessarily insulting, all God's magnanimous forgiving nature notwithstanding, apparently. Self-denigrating, actually.
Ill assume the best of intentions on your part. Thanks for trying. And thank you for sharing the context of Jesus' presence in Matthew. It really is quite beautiful.
Have a blessed New Year.
Tom
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Well, I finished the book. Not much to add to what I said above, except when I said, "One surprise was that I saw that TWI incorporated was sooo just another church," I hadn't read the comments on the previous page yet about TWI being or not being a church.
Also, someone on page 1 said that they never wanted the book to end. I can agree. I was sorry when I came to the end of it that there was no more. Of course, there is more - the emergence of the truths that it contains in our lives:).
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newlife
Thanks for all of your comments on the Book......
Tom, especially appreciated your posts. It is the way it was meant to be I believe. "The Church" is suppose to be on the move....people involved with people, sharing, giving, etc. and everyone following Christ and doing and going where he directs.
Amazed Tom about how TWI was in the beginning....interesting how it went down.
I hope everyone that reads the book enjoys the "freedom". I did.......
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Ham
he gets no argument from me. He does whatever he wants to..
lately the "whatever" has been a little vague..
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