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On 8/10/2020 at 2:50 PM, annio said:

Well, I connected w/ John Schoenheit et al for a bit about 3-4 years ago, and was talking with a very respected leader in S&TF who teaches/counsels on recovery from various spiritual and sexual abuses. She clearly intimated that for a good while up til rather recently(??) JAL had enough of that "helping himself" mind set that S&TF would not have anything to do with him or his ministry. Of course JAL has had serious health issues, and I pray for him, BUT just sayin... She (am protecting her anonymity), also shared the statistic that 1/4 - 1/3 of all pastors/priests have been sexually abusive of atleast one congregant (had an affair, etc, etc). Not sure of the time frame for that; maybe it has changed?? Just like Drs being in a pressured vocation and being addicted to drugs, church pastors are susceptible to the trusting put-you-on-a-pedestal young women or children, and to porn which can be a gateway to sexual abuse. Am NOT excusing the abuse, believe you me. Just saying that the way is not alone in this... Duh.

Also, I encountered an older "believer" my age about 5 years ago who often taught at an ex-way-type fellowship, who would have gladly carried on with me if he could have, and who was simultaneously "witnessing" to someone with whom, yep, he began a sexual relationship. (They finally did get married... He's a good guy in many ways, and maybe he IS changing or has been convicted in a healthy way.) I am just saying that the influence of that deceptive mind set is still alive. And as DWBH has already said, re:  the many men who participated in the culture's Help Yourself abuses, If you have NOT APOLOGIZED AND MADE AMENDS, THEN YOU ARE STILL GUILTY OF THE ABUSES.

(The following post comes from someone who has plenty of criticism for JAL.  Very specific stuff.)

I take it that they left out some things, like how they wrecked JAL's marriage with their "PERSONAL PROPHECY" nonsense.   JAL was a good salesman when he was setting up CES/STFI, but eventually they cut him loose when their BOD couldn't agree on stuff.  So, instead of adults candidly coming to some understandings, their "prophetess" spewed some false prophecies that ruined his marriage and savaged the reputations of himself and his Mrs. 

Take a tour through the CES/STFi threads for some of the background of these claims you were told. 

 

When I was in twi, I was told that lcm was chosen by ballot like how Matthias was chosen in Acts 1.   That was a well-meaning lie.  vpw selected lcm himself and announced his own successor.   In fact,  when he spoke to others, NOBODY put forth lcm's name.  Other people's names were mentioned, but never his.   The people who told me of the vote really believed that's what happened, and were nice people.  Nice people can be honestly mistaken and pass along false information.   Perhaps that's what happened with your informant from STFI.  On the other hand, they might have been someone in-the-know who lied to your face.  I only know they didn't pass along factually-correct info. 

For a brief time in the beginning, CES  had a forum and open discussions.  That didn't last- and discussions and disagreements with them were clamped down on after that.

https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/forum/86-out-of-the-way-the-offshoots/

https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/forum/68-spirit-and-truth-fellowship-international/

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9 hours ago, Stayed Too Long said:

 

It seems the only way out is for someone else to assist them. They just do not have the ability to completely do it on their own. Another person has to remove Fido from the vomit, or it will keep on eating their sickness. Equally true are humans who are being abused; someone, a website, a book must show them they are worth it, and assist get the help they so desperately need. 
 

 

I was also referring to the perpetrators who return to victimize the innocent again, and again, and again...as in the case of the leaders of some of these offshoots.  It is a seared conscience...

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3 hours ago, Rejoice said:

I was also referring to the perpetrators who return to victimize the innocent again, and again, and again...as in the case of the leaders of some of these offshoots.  It is a seared conscience...

The blurb you quoted from Stayed Too Long got my attention too.

From the perspective of victims of cult abuse, I'm not sure what STL said is absolute. I agree that because humans are social, and because we are all subject to being conned at some point in our lives, and because belonging is a primal need, I believe it naturally follows that having help is extremely beneficial. But some who want to extract themselves from the cult can become determined to leave without initial assistance from others. But ultimately, again because of our need to belong, we do need others in some kind of group to get involved with in order to survive for very long.

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