STL: I moved this out of doctrinal. Please do not do this again. Doctrinal is specifically set up so believers can discuss their beliefs without this kind of intrusion. A lot of Christians come to this site to explore their faith, and we want them to have a safe space to do so. We (unbelievers) have our space. Give them theirs.
STL the antidote is very simple: go to confession, be very sorry for the sin and you have a clean slate.
I think the greatest hardship was experienced by our Lord Jesus Christ, who paid the ultimate price.
Let me ask you this. Let’s assume you are a father, or mother, you have children, and have instructed them they must clean their room everyday. You further demand that if they fail to do so they will be punished by having to sleep in the cold basement with no blankets forever. And this punishment will be passed down to their linage, also for eternity. Does this seem fair to all their children? But because you are loving, you throw in a caveat, that if they write you a letter asking you to forgive them every time they fail to clean their room, they will be absolved of their transgression, and can get back into the comfort of their bedroom.
This goes on for the rest of their lives of your entire linage.
Suppose a couple live in ABC-land. Then they decide to move to another country, XYZ-land. They live in XYZ for a while and have children there. Their children are XYZ-ers by birth. And so also will their children be. And so on. The family consolidates its interest in being citizens of XYZ. Later children may never know anything about their ancestors' original citizenship of ABC.
In many countries nowadays, citizenship / nationality rights can be passed down one or two generations. The first children, and maybe the grandchildren, may have a legal right to claim citizenship in ABC-land. (Such rights don't usually go down beyond grandchildren.) After that, legal rights to return to ABC as citizens by birthright is lost.
Now suppose that ABC-land is a generous country that is willing to accept anyone who wants to live there, regardless of background or original associations. All the wannabe new citizens have to do is swear an oath of allegiance. And that's it!
*********
Now, suppose that XYZ-land is not a country but a way of life. A life of criminality, of dependency on benefits, of some other socially reprehensible set of actions. Maybe illiteracy, not seeing the benefit of learning to read and write properly.
This can tend to be taught to children: their parents may teach them to truant school, steal, rob, be violent to get what they want. They may feel that they are "getting something" by depending on state benefits (often coupled with a life of petty criminality), or end up with an attitude of "entitlement" to things they have not worked for. Such families may become socially ostracised, thus deepening the attitude of whatever started such a lifestyle anyway. It's "normal," or even expected, to get sent to prison for periods.
This is the "sins of the fathers" coming home for generations of later children.
And again, it can be cancelled, broken away from. It takes a change of mentality, thinking patterns, and a willingness, a desire, for something different. A new life can be chosen.
*********
Your life now is a result of choices taken by your parents - and their parents. It's not your fault, or your good, that you live in the country you live in, in the circumstances that you live in. You live in a rich country, with educational and healthcare facilities? Great, your good fortune; enjoy it, but you didn't earn it. You live in a poor country, where education is expensive and healthcare is expensive or hardly accessible at all? Too bad, your mis-fortune; but again, that wasn't your fault.
I agree that people can be born into a cast system and live that way their entire life. Due to time and place they may, or not, be able to change their lot in life. The system might allow mobility or not, but that all ends at death. If one is a king or pauper it doesn’t matter after drawing their last breath.
But, when it comes to eternal life, much happens at death. You go to heaven or hell.
Let’s assume for argument that to be saved, Alluh must be your god. If you do not acknowledge Alluh, at death you will go to hell. That is all well and good if you have the opportunity to hear of him and choose to adher to his laws. But what about the people who have never even heard of Alluh, or choose not to believe in him?
Perhaps they believe the name of Jesus will get them saved, that he died on the cross, and was risen from the dead on the 3rd day, but have never heard of Alluh. Should hell be their final place of residence?
Should the Christian warrior who died for his faith be denied 72 virgins? How could that be fair?
Because the Christian woman does not keep her entire body and face covered for life, and walks around without the escort of a related man, should she be cast into hell? Because Christians do not allow their 10 year old daughter to be married to a 60 year old man, should they be driven into hell?
As you can see whatever your cast in life, it ends at death. But believing in, and following the will of Alluh, brings great opportunity or consequences at death. You can have 72 women hanging off your arms or burn in hell. You can have hundreds of young girls for eternity or rot in hell.
You better make the correct choice and pray to Alluh 5 times a day or suffer hell. Just saying.
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oldiesman
STL the antidote is very simple: go to confession, be very sorry for the sin and you have a clean slate.
I think the greatest hardship was experienced by our Lord Jesus Christ, who paid the ultimate price.
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modcat5
STL: I moved this out of doctrinal. Please do not do this again. Doctrinal is specifically set up so believers can discuss their beliefs without this kind of intrusion. A lot of Christians come to this site to explore their faith, and we want them to have a safe space to do so. We (unbelievers) have our space. Give them theirs.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
[Hey, I thought we said no politics!]
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Stayed Too Long
Let me ask you this. Let’s assume you are a father, or mother, you have children, and have instructed them they must clean their room everyday. You further demand that if they fail to do so they will be punished by having to sleep in the cold basement with no blankets forever. And this punishment will be passed down to their linage, also for eternity. Does this seem fair to all their children? But because you are loving, you throw in a caveat, that if they write you a letter asking you to forgive them every time they fail to clean their room, they will be absolved of their transgression, and can get back into the comfort of their bedroom.
This goes on for the rest of their lives of your entire linage.
Does thhis make sense?
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Twinky
The following makes more sense to me.
Suppose a couple live in ABC-land. Then they decide to move to another country, XYZ-land. They live in XYZ for a while and have children there. Their children are XYZ-ers by birth. And so also will their children be. And so on. The family consolidates its interest in being citizens of XYZ. Later children may never know anything about their ancestors' original citizenship of ABC.
In many countries nowadays, citizenship / nationality rights can be passed down one or two generations. The first children, and maybe the grandchildren, may have a legal right to claim citizenship in ABC-land. (Such rights don't usually go down beyond grandchildren.) After that, legal rights to return to ABC as citizens by birthright is lost.
Now suppose that ABC-land is a generous country that is willing to accept anyone who wants to live there, regardless of background or original associations. All the wannabe new citizens have to do is swear an oath of allegiance. And that's it!
*********
Now, suppose that XYZ-land is not a country but a way of life. A life of criminality, of dependency on benefits, of some other socially reprehensible set of actions. Maybe illiteracy, not seeing the benefit of learning to read and write properly.
This can tend to be taught to children: their parents may teach them to truant school, steal, rob, be violent to get what they want. They may feel that they are "getting something" by depending on state benefits (often coupled with a life of petty criminality), or end up with an attitude of "entitlement" to things they have not worked for. Such families may become socially ostracised, thus deepening the attitude of whatever started such a lifestyle anyway. It's "normal," or even expected, to get sent to prison for periods.
This is the "sins of the fathers" coming home for generations of later children.
And again, it can be cancelled, broken away from. It takes a change of mentality, thinking patterns, and a willingness, a desire, for something different. A new life can be chosen.
*********
Your life now is a result of choices taken by your parents - and their parents. It's not your fault, or your good, that you live in the country you live in, in the circumstances that you live in. You live in a rich country, with educational and healthcare facilities? Great, your good fortune; enjoy it, but you didn't earn it. You live in a poor country, where education is expensive and healthcare is expensive or hardly accessible at all? Too bad, your mis-fortune; but again, that wasn't your fault.
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Stayed Too Long
I agree that people can be born into a cast system and live that way their entire life. Due to time and place they may, or not, be able to change their lot in life. The system might allow mobility or not, but that all ends at death. If one is a king or pauper it doesn’t matter after drawing their last breath.
But, when it comes to eternal life, much happens at death. You go to heaven or hell.
Let’s assume for argument that to be saved, Alluh must be your god. If you do not acknowledge Alluh, at death you will go to hell. That is all well and good if you have the opportunity to hear of him and choose to adher to his laws. But what about the people who have never even heard of Alluh, or choose not to believe in him?
Perhaps they believe the name of Jesus will get them saved, that he died on the cross, and was risen from the dead on the 3rd day, but have never heard of Alluh. Should hell be their final place of residence?
Should the Christian warrior who died for his faith be denied 72 virgins? How could that be fair?
Because the Christian woman does not keep her entire body and face covered for life, and walks around without the escort of a related man, should she be cast into hell? Because Christians do not allow their 10 year old daughter to be married to a 60 year old man, should they be driven into hell?
As you can see whatever your cast in life, it ends at death. But believing in, and following the will of Alluh, brings great opportunity or consequences at death. You can have 72 women hanging off your arms or burn in hell. You can have hundreds of young girls for eternity or rot in hell.
You better make the correct choice and pray to Alluh 5 times a day or suffer hell. Just saying.
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