I've noticed some of the activites around here lately have been much more heated than normal - but I haven't had much time to read and take part in these kinds of threads. Too much of my energy's gone to taking care of stuff from the accident and trying to get my body back to where I can depend on it's usefulness. I say this to let you know I have no idea who Zshot may have in mind.
But - I know that Zshot's suggestion is excellent advice! Not just anger...but any negative emotion issues should be dealt with because if left alone, they can cause physical illness, or make an existing condition worse.
All the emotions we experience cause the release of hormones...and hormones turn on certain organs and turn off others. Ordinary day to day things won't result in illness because everything balances everything else out.
But negative emotions eventually take their toll on one's physical health. We usually tend to our physical bodies...we should pay just as much attention to our mental health.
Yeah, I agree with the Moshmeister...I find venting on some of these forums to be somewhat cathartic. Besides, when I log off of the GS, my mind is instantly elsewhere. This is a "compartment of my mind" that I leave as quickly as I enter. There ARE some folks who are thin skinned and take this place AND themselves far too seriously...and there are probably some who have issues with anger in their lives...anger management would be a tremendous help to those with anger problems.
Of course, anger can also be healthy at times, when it is both justified and kept under control. Most of the posts that I see here seem to indicate adequete control...I guess there's a few that are "over the top" and I sometimes wonder about that individuals mental hygeine. There are a variety of different forums here...some are of the "bunny rabbit" nature, others are a bit more caustic...let each poster get involved with what is "right" for them. If ya can't run with the big dogs, stay home on the porch.
Sometimes an argument, a debate or venting can do some good.
And the free flow of ideas should not be reserved for the “thick skinned” or exclude the “thin skinned” people.
It is fine to have great passion for an issue. It can be interesting when people have differing points of view, and passionate about that issue. This forum has rule concerning personal attacks. I believe that these types of rules are good because:
1. It makes the person making the attack seem very childish.
2. It weakens their position on the issue at hand.
3. It is not productive in resolving issues.
4. And good manners and civility do have a place in our society.
Besides, any fool can belittle someone else, and most fools usually do.
With that being said…
What I am posting about is not about a single post or posts on a single “bad” day, but a series of posts.
On forum style web sits, we only see a small part of a person. We form opinions of these people based upon what we see. And we might not ever know if are opinions are correct or not.
Based on that, from what I have seen from this person on this web site. I think that this person(s) might need some help. As I have said before. I could be wrong and I hope I am. Hopefully, this person, when he/she turns off there computer they, laugh, smile and enjoy life.
We all might have times in our lives where we might need some professional help to deal with issues. If this happens, hopefully we will find the courage to accept such help. Or considers the suggestion if they suggest that they might need help.
I don’t know it the person I am thinking about has read this thread or not. Or what the reaction might be if this person does. Hopefully, it will be a constructive response.
A friend once said to me "the best treat you can give yourself is to see a therapist." By experiance that is a true statment. A therapist can assit in resolving alot of anger,shame and fear. Who does't want to be their athentic selves. Anger,shame and fear are add-ons to who you really are and sometimes can be the dominate energy be hind your existance.
So it's up to each individual to decide weither they want to live what they were born to be or what they have become.
It took me many years to realize anger is a worthless emotion...
NOT !!!!
anger can be a very very constructive tool to motivate change in our life, somtimes it is the only means of survival in an overwhelming situation that demands action be taken.
anger is not wrong nor is stress wrong both these facets of life add a great deal of wellness and wholeness to a person.
it is ok and right to be angry .
co-dependents , cult mind sets, and children of alcohol addicted parents learn very deep that angry feeling are bad and not allowed in our society.
so they pretend and live in the illusion that injustice and pain are not to be felt.
the outcome is worse a much much more self destructive life style of denial and abuse is generated with out a vioce that can say I am hurt I am angry the self is destoyed or never allowed to live at all.
At GS we have personalities and some writers appear more "macho" or agressive than others or louder with a screaming vioce if you will!!
others who have been taught it is not ok , feel threatened by the fact somone is allowed what they themselves cant allow or "do".
We are taught to care take for another person emotion this is wrong wrong wrong! we hve been taught it is our responsiblity to control and be responsible for another reaction to our feelings and choices in life, TRUTH IS each individual is only responsible for their own emotion and another has little or NOTHING to say about how they honestly feel.
If you love somone you love them ,does the fact they may not feel the same way really make it go away?
if you feel angry you feel angry and it belongs to YOU to mix in cause and effect has little ability to change or control what only the individual can.
If you take on the responsibility in life to controll how another may feel YOU have a big problem in life, because it is truly impossible and a lie that will hurt you .
emotions are real and needed to live a great and wonderful life to be able to express and state how we honestly feel about situation allows us freedom in life.
The freedom to have genuine honest sharing of who we are.
the cult may have shut down your awareness of feeling numbness to pain is common in many types of disfunctional setting and is a learned behaviour that stifles life itself.
some are very protective of this site and that may be a genuine love thing going on .... their points are so important because they love the people involved and want to protect... that is not anger that is love .
true love is a powerful force and we express it with a urgency that frightens sometimes do we not?
control issues , bullys are addressed I think very well on GS.
being angry is ok.
disagreements are ok , if a poster has a genuine problem with how someone expresses their angry feeling like personl attacks etc. on GS pawtuckets has clearly made it known he will address the concerns.
but if a person feels a need to control how another feels I really encourage you look at why somone eles emotion or expression effects YOUR life and being so much , it should not we are allowed to be who we are and it is ok .
quote: but if a person feels a need to control how another feels I really encourage you look at why somone eles emotion or expression effects YOUR life and being so much , it should not we are allowed to be who we are and it is ok .
I can't speak for Zshot - but I don't think we (all of us here on this thread) are talking about the same thing.
When you take the anger and do something productive with it - to combat the source of the anger...that's not "anger issues"... that's a sign of good mental health.
When "I" speak of anger issues, I mean someone who lives under the infuence of anger all the time who doesn't have a healthy means of dealing with it. The anger pervades every aspect of their lives. In a sense, I guess you could say it controls them.
Such a person could easily be a wife beater, for example. Some people who consistently commit hate crimes might be another. Certainly some of the Korpse-Nazzis who screamed at us all the time over nothing - might have some anger issues too.
I'm the last one to try to control anyone but since we all (or nearly all) once were under twi influence...I consider us brothers of a sort...and I care about people here.
I hope that what I said implied no anger at all is good.. I for one support the expressions of all emotions. If you feel them... you won't die. It's what you do with that energy that makes or breaks your serenity. For me my anger was delt with through a bottle. It almost cost me my life and the lives of others. So I am in favor of feeling what you feel. Lord knows I have/had the right to be angry, but that energy was killing me and I needed to find out what to do with it.
but I think imbus and kry and I are getting there.
the wife beater or krys example of a leader who is angry is one who may have issues granted clearly.
my point is to consider the fact those being beat or yelled at by a leader does NOT get angry at the fact they are being abused as a human.
this is as much if not a more serious problem.
it is ok to say to somone NO I do not agree and have mutual respect , it is healthy and what is a given in any event..
yet some do not they use all types of measure and denials and escape to say well I just could not you know he was a leader or she.. or well most of the time he will not slap me or insult me so it is ok... type of statement...
this is also a very serious mode of thinking yet allows for a victim metality that repeats and actualy calls upon the very behaviours they seek relieve from. it is attention seeking behaviour that can controll another.
I do not get beat I do not get yelled at without somone being told it is not an accpetable behaviour and to stop and they must or eles any number of consequence will follow.
why do some endure or seek angry people in their life?
why do some people get so much more disturbed by somone eles angry feelings that they react to it themselves?
1) Everybody gets angry. It has to come out. If two angry people target each other at any time, the chances increase that one will escalate it from verbal to physical or try to bait the other into doing it first. Sometimes one has to be the "bigger person" and get the hell out of there for awhile.
2) It IS possible for persons to become "furious and angry men (persons)" Prov. 22:24 who according to the next verse can cause those around them to take on their anger trait and get a "snare to their soul".
I worked for a woman who was the first type, but not the second. She was my boss and every so often she'd ream whomever was in her path for whatever it was. But once she got it out, it was gone without a trace. She reamed me pretty good once, but overall we got along fine.
I suppose an anger management program (never been in one) will give good pointers on how to avoid (prolong) the time when anger would escalate and give the conflict a better chance to die off, but if one or both of the parties involved are the second type, people who have a chronic problem with anger everywhere they go, then resolution becomes much more difficult.
It looks like Imbus, kry and I are on the same sheet of music (so to speak).
Emotions are a very important part of our lives. Emotions can also be a very powerful in motivation. When some emotions dominate a persons thought patters and/or there lives. This person might need professional help.
(I wasn't planning on how we (me), was motivated at an emotional level while part of twi. Emotions can be manulapated.)
As MJ correctly pointed out. Each of us has sole ownership of our own emotions. And being angry in and of itself is not always a bad thing. How we handle our emotions can determine if our emotions are being used to be productive, benificial, and enjoyable or if these emotions are being destructive (to either self or others)
When and how much and what kind of damage it does varies wildly.
Anger can be one of our closest teachers if we let it.
Like using venom to combat venom.
It sounds funny, but I found that it actually helps to growl and howl and wail and sweat and pound on the ground or a drum in the hot darknes. No kidding. It'll rattle your guts and bones where you need. That's if you can find a suitable venue for it. :P--> (For example, 4 rounds in a decent native sweat lodge will embrace your angers really well).
And our anger and our sorrows go hand in hand, too, it seems.
When we find ourselves at the bottom, they become indistinguishable from each other.
So it seems useful to consider them in light of each other.
How they dance so well together.
quote:"the best treat you can give yourself is to see a therapist."
I agree. Find a good therapist. I have always been afraid of western head-sciences, and I've also carried a lot of anger about some pretty vile events in my life. But I've pretty much radically changed my mind about professional therapy lately (and am in need of some, soon, it seems). I even sense that even in all its recent advances, this is another embryonic science whose cutting edge is moving at a pretty good clip right now. And it seems there are more good affordable and effective therapists out there than before (as well as some of those "rock-stars" of therapy who have written some good books).
btw - Anyone here know any indicators of negative trends to watch for in finding one?
OK...I'm really trying to figure out what the point of this thread is.
There's been some sound opinions as to the nature of anger and how it effects us...but this post was started by Zshot with a specific complaint about "certain posters" expressing themselves in a way that Zshot describes as "overheated" and finds to be "disturbing". Zshot then goes on to "very strongly consider going to a mental health professional". Hmmm...In the old days, we used to just say they should have their "head examined". Was this an attempt to throw an insult at someone under the guise of "offering a suggestion" in order to help some poor soul?...or were you honestly making a mental hygeine diagnosis, based on what somebody posted?
MY point, is why should you give a second thought to somebody else's "anger" in some post, allowing it to "disturb" you? If I honestly believed that someone that posted here needed some kind of professional help, I would either E-mail them privately or mind my own business. I will let you in on a secret...there are certain posters here that I DO NOT READ! It's like George Carlin once said, "there's two knobs on the radio, one turns the channel and the other turns it off". It makes little sense to me, to read posts that disturb me and then make a public announcement of that fact...and I would never be so presumptuous as to actually think that I know the mental condition of anyone who posts here.
I get angry when I doubt or am afraid of somone or something can hurt me or one I love.
it is a natural course of events...
It is often when a person can not find a solid base line of "self" of what they believe or know as truth for themself and are ok with it that they may feel threatened.
the cult taught approval from the masses was important that keeping up with the status was the manner to please and be happy.
and that others appoval was very important regardless of your own genuine feelings about a subject.
this causes pressure and confusion and that is when people feel out of control and lose their temper or piece of mind.
also the whole group mentality of IM ok and I can fix you comes from the cult mind set.
when a other rebels against this set of silent rules peole do not understand and get angry. and the friends join in.
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krys
I've noticed some of the activites around here lately have been much more heated than normal - but I haven't had much time to read and take part in these kinds of threads. Too much of my energy's gone to taking care of stuff from the accident and trying to get my body back to where I can depend on it's usefulness. I say this to let you know I have no idea who Zshot may have in mind.
But - I know that Zshot's suggestion is excellent advice! Not just anger...but any negative emotion issues should be dealt with because if left alone, they can cause physical illness, or make an existing condition worse.
All the emotions we experience cause the release of hormones...and hormones turn on certain organs and turn off others. Ordinary day to day things won't result in illness because everything balances everything else out.
But negative emotions eventually take their toll on one's physical health. We usually tend to our physical bodies...we should pay just as much attention to our mental health.
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Mister P-Mosh
Sometimes arguing on the internet can be therapeutic. After I said what I said here, I felt better and now I don't care about the arguments anymore.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Yeah, I agree with the Moshmeister...I find venting on some of these forums to be somewhat cathartic. Besides, when I log off of the GS, my mind is instantly elsewhere. This is a "compartment of my mind" that I leave as quickly as I enter. There ARE some folks who are thin skinned and take this place AND themselves far too seriously...and there are probably some who have issues with anger in their lives...anger management would be a tremendous help to those with anger problems.
Of course, anger can also be healthy at times, when it is both justified and kept under control. Most of the posts that I see here seem to indicate adequete control...I guess there's a few that are "over the top" and I sometimes wonder about that individuals mental hygeine. There are a variety of different forums here...some are of the "bunny rabbit" nature, others are a bit more caustic...let each poster get involved with what is "right" for them. If ya can't run with the big dogs, stay home on the porch.
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Zshot
Both P-Mosh and UH bring up good points.
Sometimes an argument, a debate or venting can do some good.
And the free flow of ideas should not be reserved for the “thick skinned” or exclude the “thin skinned” people.
It is fine to have great passion for an issue. It can be interesting when people have differing points of view, and passionate about that issue. This forum has rule concerning personal attacks. I believe that these types of rules are good because:
1. It makes the person making the attack seem very childish.
2. It weakens their position on the issue at hand.
3. It is not productive in resolving issues.
4. And good manners and civility do have a place in our society.
Besides, any fool can belittle someone else, and most fools usually do.
With that being said…
What I am posting about is not about a single post or posts on a single “bad” day, but a series of posts.
On forum style web sits, we only see a small part of a person. We form opinions of these people based upon what we see. And we might not ever know if are opinions are correct or not.
Based on that, from what I have seen from this person on this web site. I think that this person(s) might need some help. As I have said before. I could be wrong and I hope I am. Hopefully, this person, when he/she turns off there computer they, laugh, smile and enjoy life.
We all might have times in our lives where we might need some professional help to deal with issues. If this happens, hopefully we will find the courage to accept such help. Or considers the suggestion if they suggest that they might need help.
I don’t know it the person I am thinking about has read this thread or not. Or what the reaction might be if this person does. Hopefully, it will be a constructive response.
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imbus
A friend once said to me "the best treat you can give yourself is to see a therapist." By experiance that is a true statment. A therapist can assit in resolving alot of anger,shame and fear. Who does't want to be their athentic selves. Anger,shame and fear are add-ons to who you really are and sometimes can be the dominate energy be hind your existance.
So it's up to each individual to decide weither they want to live what they were born to be or what they have become.
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mj412
It took me many years to realize anger is a worthless emotion...
NOT !!!!
anger can be a very very constructive tool to motivate change in our life, somtimes it is the only means of survival in an overwhelming situation that demands action be taken.
anger is not wrong nor is stress wrong both these facets of life add a great deal of wellness and wholeness to a person.
it is ok and right to be angry .
co-dependents , cult mind sets, and children of alcohol addicted parents learn very deep that angry feeling are bad and not allowed in our society.
so they pretend and live in the illusion that injustice and pain are not to be felt.
the outcome is worse a much much more self destructive life style of denial and abuse is generated with out a vioce that can say I am hurt I am angry the self is destoyed or never allowed to live at all.
At GS we have personalities and some writers appear more "macho" or agressive than others or louder with a screaming vioce if you will!!
others who have been taught it is not ok , feel threatened by the fact somone is allowed what they themselves cant allow or "do".
We are taught to care take for another person emotion this is wrong wrong wrong! we hve been taught it is our responsiblity to control and be responsible for another reaction to our feelings and choices in life, TRUTH IS each individual is only responsible for their own emotion and another has little or NOTHING to say about how they honestly feel.
If you love somone you love them ,does the fact they may not feel the same way really make it go away?
if you feel angry you feel angry and it belongs to YOU to mix in cause and effect has little ability to change or control what only the individual can.
If you take on the responsibility in life to controll how another may feel YOU have a big problem in life, because it is truly impossible and a lie that will hurt you .
emotions are real and needed to live a great and wonderful life to be able to express and state how we honestly feel about situation allows us freedom in life.
The freedom to have genuine honest sharing of who we are.
the cult may have shut down your awareness of feeling numbness to pain is common in many types of disfunctional setting and is a learned behaviour that stifles life itself.
some are very protective of this site and that may be a genuine love thing going on .... their points are so important because they love the people involved and want to protect... that is not anger that is love .
true love is a powerful force and we express it with a urgency that frightens sometimes do we not?
control issues , bullys are addressed I think very well on GS.
being angry is ok.
disagreements are ok , if a poster has a genuine problem with how someone expresses their angry feeling like personl attacks etc. on GS pawtuckets has clearly made it known he will address the concerns.
but if a person feels a need to control how another feels I really encourage you look at why somone eles emotion or expression effects YOUR life and being so much , it should not we are allowed to be who we are and it is ok .
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krys
I can't speak for Zshot - but I don't think we (all of us here on this thread) are talking about the same thing.
When you take the anger and do something productive with it - to combat the source of the anger...that's not "anger issues"... that's a sign of good mental health.
When "I" speak of anger issues, I mean someone who lives under the infuence of anger all the time who doesn't have a healthy means of dealing with it. The anger pervades every aspect of their lives. In a sense, I guess you could say it controls them.
Such a person could easily be a wife beater, for example. Some people who consistently commit hate crimes might be another. Certainly some of the Korpse-Nazzis who screamed at us all the time over nothing - might have some anger issues too.
I'm the last one to try to control anyone but since we all (or nearly all) once were under twi influence...I consider us brothers of a sort...and I care about people here.
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imbus
MJ412,
I hope that what I said implied no anger at all is good.. I for one support the expressions of all emotions. If you feel them... you won't die. It's what you do with that energy that makes or breaks your serenity. For me my anger was delt with through a bottle. It almost cost me my life and the lives of others. So I am in favor of feeling what you feel. Lord knows I have/had the right to be angry, but that energy was killing me and I needed to find out what to do with it.
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mj412
it is diificult to be on the same page here.
but I think imbus and kry and I are getting there.
the wife beater or krys example of a leader who is angry is one who may have issues granted clearly.
my point is to consider the fact those being beat or yelled at by a leader does NOT get angry at the fact they are being abused as a human.
this is as much if not a more serious problem.
it is ok to say to somone NO I do not agree and have mutual respect , it is healthy and what is a given in any event..
yet some do not they use all types of measure and denials and escape to say well I just could not you know he was a leader or she.. or well most of the time he will not slap me or insult me so it is ok... type of statement...
this is also a very serious mode of thinking yet allows for a victim metality that repeats and actualy calls upon the very behaviours they seek relieve from. it is attention seeking behaviour that can controll another.
I do not get beat I do not get yelled at without somone being told it is not an accpetable behaviour and to stop and they must or eles any number of consequence will follow.
why do some endure or seek angry people in their life?
why do some people get so much more disturbed by somone eles angry feelings that they react to it themselves?
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johniam
I look at anger in 2 basic ways:
1) Everybody gets angry. It has to come out. If two angry people target each other at any time, the chances increase that one will escalate it from verbal to physical or try to bait the other into doing it first. Sometimes one has to be the "bigger person" and get the hell out of there for awhile.
2) It IS possible for persons to become "furious and angry men (persons)" Prov. 22:24 who according to the next verse can cause those around them to take on their anger trait and get a "snare to their soul".
I worked for a woman who was the first type, but not the second. She was my boss and every so often she'd ream whomever was in her path for whatever it was. But once she got it out, it was gone without a trace. She reamed me pretty good once, but overall we got along fine.
I suppose an anger management program (never been in one) will give good pointers on how to avoid (prolong) the time when anger would escalate and give the conflict a better chance to die off, but if one or both of the parties involved are the second type, people who have a chronic problem with anger everywhere they go, then resolution becomes much more difficult.
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Zshot
It looks like Imbus, kry and I are on the same sheet of music (so to speak).
Emotions are a very important part of our lives. Emotions can also be a very powerful in motivation. When some emotions dominate a persons thought patters and/or there lives. This person might need professional help.
(I wasn't planning on how we (me), was motivated at an emotional level while part of twi. Emotions can be manulapated.)
As MJ correctly pointed out. Each of us has sole ownership of our own emotions. And being angry in and of itself is not always a bad thing. How we handle our emotions can determine if our emotions are being used to be productive, benificial, and enjoyable or if these emotions are being destructive (to either self or others)
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sirguessalot
A lot of good stuff on this thread.
I agree.
Anger just is when it is.
When and how much and what kind of damage it does varies wildly.
Anger can be one of our closest teachers if we let it.
Like using venom to combat venom.
It sounds funny, but I found that it actually helps to growl and howl and wail and sweat and pound on the ground or a drum in the hot darknes. No kidding. It'll rattle your guts and bones where you need. That's if you can find a suitable venue for it.
:P--> (For example, 4 rounds in a decent native sweat lodge will embrace your angers really well).
And our anger and our sorrows go hand in hand, too, it seems.
When we find ourselves at the bottom, they become indistinguishable from each other.
So it seems useful to consider them in light of each other.
How they dance so well together.
I agree. Find a good therapist. I have always been afraid of western head-sciences, and I've also carried a lot of anger about some pretty vile events in my life. But I've pretty much radically changed my mind about professional therapy lately (and am in need of some, soon, it seems). I even sense that even in all its recent advances, this is another embryonic science whose cutting edge is moving at a pretty good clip right now. And it seems there are more good affordable and effective therapists out there than before (as well as some of those "rock-stars" of therapy who have written some good books).
btw - Anyone here know any indicators of negative trends to watch for in finding one?
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GrouchoMarxJr
OK...I'm really trying to figure out what the point of this thread is.
There's been some sound opinions as to the nature of anger and how it effects us...but this post was started by Zshot with a specific complaint about "certain posters" expressing themselves in a way that Zshot describes as "overheated" and finds to be "disturbing". Zshot then goes on to "very strongly consider going to a mental health professional". Hmmm...In the old days, we used to just say they should have their "head examined". Was this an attempt to throw an insult at someone under the guise of "offering a suggestion" in order to help some poor soul?...or were you honestly making a mental hygeine diagnosis, based on what somebody posted?
MY point, is why should you give a second thought to somebody else's "anger" in some post, allowing it to "disturb" you? If I honestly believed that someone that posted here needed some kind of professional help, I would either E-mail them privately or mind my own business. I will let you in on a secret...there are certain posters here that I DO NOT READ! It's like George Carlin once said, "there's two knobs on the radio, one turns the channel and the other turns it off". It makes little sense to me, to read posts that disturb me and then make a public announcement of that fact...and I would never be so presumptuous as to actually think that I know the mental condition of anyone who posts here.
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mj412
folks who get angry have self doubt .
I get angry when I doubt or am afraid of somone or something can hurt me or one I love.
it is a natural course of events...
It is often when a person can not find a solid base line of "self" of what they believe or know as truth for themself and are ok with it that they may feel threatened.
the cult taught approval from the masses was important that keeping up with the status was the manner to please and be happy.
and that others appoval was very important regardless of your own genuine feelings about a subject.
this causes pressure and confusion and that is when people feel out of control and lose their temper or piece of mind.
also the whole group mentality of IM ok and I can fix you comes from the cult mind set.
when a other rebels against this set of silent rules peole do not understand and get angry. and the friends join in.
it is simply displacement .
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papajohn
anger is not a bad emotion as someone here has suggested. it's how we act on it thats bad.
the word says what?
be angry, but sin not.
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