Hi there Chas! I'll try to answer your questions on home schooling.
The why for us was 1.grade school kids were being arrested for selling drugs, yikes. 2.There is a huge percentage of high school grads in this city that can't read or write. 3.Our kidlet's way of learning would have not worked with the puplic school's way of teaching. 4.At this time when we got her hearing tested she could only hear 50% in one ear and 25% in the other. She has since had her hearing restored due to answer to prayer.
As far as picking curriculum, that's the hard part, because there are soooo many out there. We pick and choose, some years I just make one up. Sometimes like last year we bought Switched on Schoolhouse. It was on the puter, and even schedualled and graded the work. you have to figure out what your kid and you will like.
The kid loves home schooling, but she's never been to public school. But she has many friends that go to public school, and of course home school friends. I ask her every summer if she wants to go to public school in the fall. And she always says NO WAY!
Regrets, only when I have to grade her papers. Basically it's become just another part of our lives.
The first thing I would do is try to find out if there are any home schooling groups where you live. We have several here in Austin. Hook up with them and pick their brains. (eewww ;)-->)
Also every state has different laws aboout home schooling. Here in Texas the law sees each home schooling family as a private school and must teach 5 basic subjects. The nice part is you can teach it how ever you like. (we watch the History Channel a lot).
Also check out you library. More and more of them are keeping books about home schooling.
Hope this is somewhat helpful. I would give you some web sites, but I'd have to find that note first. Love to Learn is one of my favorites. And Elijah Company. Both have websites and will send you a catalogue if you ask.
I home school my kids chas... Been doing it for 10 years....I have watched the majority of the kids around us growing into intelligent..well balanced successfull individuals.
Colleges here in Tenn have begun to PREFER homeschoolers sighting that they are generally better prepared scholastically and more mature upon their arrival.
The last few years the national geography and spelling bee winners have been dominated by homeschoolers.
Our kids do well with their regular studies and then are free to persue other interests....drama..karate...athletics..scouting to name a few..most of our kids would be bored silly in a class room...most would rather work hard and get the work done so that they are free to perue other studies that interest them.
When I look at the fine upstanding adults these kids are developing into (not just mine) compared with the many trouble makers I know from the public schools ....the differences are significant enough to make it all worth while.
My children were mostly home schooled. We mainly did it because the two oldest didn't seem to be learning anything in public school.
Four of my six never went to public school.
For some weird reason, when most people express a negative opinion about home schooling, they point to the supposed "lack of socialization", which is a myth IMHO.
Another thing: if you home school, do things at the pace that works best for you and your kids. Who says that what the local school curriculum says a 9 year-old should know is really what your child needs to know? One of the great benefits is flexibility, don't get tied down to the same schedule as the local schools if that's not what you want to do.
That being said, if your going to home school, it's a COMMITTMENT. While there's nothing that says that you have to be hitting the books from 8 - 3 every day, or that you can't take a day off, there has to be consistancy, it can't just be something that you do "when you have time".
My ex-wife did most of the teaching of the kids since she was home and I worked outside the home. It went well for quite a few years, but problems in our marriage and with TWI leadership caused her to neglect her teaching after a while. One of the things that I would do upon coming home from work was to ask the kids about what they learned, to give them a chance to "release" and to reinforce the lessons. I would come home at 6:00 in the evening to discover that their mom had slept in until noon and no school work had been done...day after day. In my situation, I regret having started the home schooling, although in principle I think it's a good idea if you can stick with it day after day.
which provides legal advice and representation to members for a reasonable annual retainer (it used to be $100)
In many areas even local school districts are unaware of the law and will insist on sending "observers" or truant officers into your home, even though it's illegal in most jurisdictions. School districts will pass regulations that they say are legal but are not. In some areas nosey neighbors will sic the cops or child protective services on you if they see your kids home on a school day. I know of people who kept HSLDA's phone number right by the phone...they'd hand the phone to the cop or social worker before letting them in the house.
What kind of schooling did you get? Public or home schooling?
Thought so. ... And yet all you folks turned out to be rather smart individuals, hmmm?
I keep hearing this kind of debate time and again between the public schoolers and home schoolers and, beyond the valid points raised by those who home school their children about the actual flaws residing in the public schools, I see many times where public schools in as a whole being portrayed as a losing situation that benefits no one, or as a kind of 'statist' attempt to take away parental control of their kids, or as some part of some Commie/one-world-government/end times scenario.
And its especially interesting in that many of the parents and others who b*tch about the quality of public schools are usually the staunchest opponents of increased funding for those schools, particularly when it involves *raising taxes* ((GASP)) by a couple of pennies per thousand $ of proerty taxes or some other such miniscule amount! (Classic case of this is Alabama, whose public schools are a laughing stock as compared to the rest of the country, a lot of it due to the state house refusing to provide ample funding, because they are so *scared* to raise the already LOW state taxes.)
There are still some public schools that do very well in the quality of their instruction/control of discipline. And usually those are the ones who get a good amount of funding and their teachers are paid *well*. Some folks yammer on about 'throwing good money after bad' in their ignorant dismissal of the need for increased funding by the taxpayers. I know that spending money itself isn't enough, but its a lot better than cutting the necessary funding to the bone, especially when we have politicians who call for the dismantling of the U.S. Dept. of Education.
Oh by the way, here's another point we all might want to consider. European and Japanese public schools, which have a lot MORE of 'gummint' involvement in their operations as a whole, are by and large, a lot BETTER in quality in their cirriculum and discipline. And compare very favorably to not only private schools, but also many home schools as well.
???
I'm sorry, but could someone explain the discrepancy between this fact and the 'public schools = statist and godless failures' formula?
Garth, do you have children? I'm not asking this to say that if you don't, your points aren't valid. But the answer does help to put a frame of reference on your comments.
I knew that this question was gonna come up, altho' I'm glad that you aren't using this for the purpose for the brush-off of "Since you don't have children, you can't say" song-and-dance.
No, Steve, I don't have children. And my frame of reference is based on talking to parents, and teachers from both sides of the aisle, as well as hearing all kinds of tirades about/against public schools ranging from parents having a lot of frustration with inept and abusive teachers/administrators in those schools, to Libertarian-leaning, anti-NEA, Neil Boortz wannabees squawking about 'gummint' schools "brainwashing our children to goosestep to the State", to public schools being somehow associated with the end times in preparing the kids for The One World Government with all the athiest and New Age anti-Christian programs, to ... yadayadayada.
So I hope you excuse my George Aar-like skepticism voiced here.
Actually, contrary to what might first appear, I for one am glad that home schooling is doing as well as it is, as for one thing, it is (or should be) giving the public schools the kick in the a** that it needs to deal with its very real problems that is leading parents to pull their kids out of public schools like they are. And I am also dead set against whatever public school teachers and administrators taking legal action against home schools in general, simply because they are providing effective competition to public education. Now if the parents/home schoolers *aren't* doing their jobs in educating the kids, then yes, legal action should be taken.
My concern is that public education, as a whole, is in danger of being blamed in such a wholesale way, and dismantled as a result. I know that there are some who believe that public education should not be done by the government, be it because of some ((cough)) 'interpretation' of the Constitution, or because of some paranoid fear of 'they are taking my parental rights away from me!', or for some other mickey mouse reasoning.
I disagree. I am for public education. For good, quality, disciplined, tax paid public education. Along with the same quality and disciplined private and home schooled education.
I think that vouchers would also give public schools a much-needed kick in the but.
Cindy! is a school teacher, and she recently came out of the Chicago Public School system, and into another.
When her kids were in CPS schools, she would much rather have home-schooled them, but for us it really wasn't an option.
Now in the suburbs, the schools are much better, and are meeting our children's needs much better. Although we do still consider home schooling at times.
In 1991 our eldest son was in public school (He started schooling in Scotland, though in 1991 we transferred Stateside and he started in a local public school here). He was having a lot of troubles at the bus stop, on the bus and during school with hazing from other children. He had a speech impediment from a hearing disorder (too much sonigrams as a fetus). Anyway we complained to the school, but they did not care about fights and bullying on the bus. My wife began following the bus and taking pictures of the bullying behaviors, but when presented with the photos the local school board suggested that we dis-enroll the child if he could not stand up for himself better.
At the time, we knew nothing about Homeschooling. Other than the fact that my grand-parents had taught grammar school to the neighborhood children during the first 2 decades of the 1900’s, and they used a single book to teach out of (? McGruffy Reader ? I think). While my family-line has been in America since the 1790s my siblings and I were the first to receive a government funded education. It is my understanding that the idea of a public educational system was an experiment.
At the same time, we were seeing Slick Willy’s effects on the public school system. Locally they stripped our library of books which referenced nucleus family life, or married male-female couples. In favour of Single-parent homes and “alternative lifestyle” homes.
There was a local newspaper article about the ‘new’ safe-sex program that was starting at the second grade. Since Hillary insisted that the curriculum be “alternative” Friendly, it had to include safe-sex techniques for lesbians and gays as well as heteros.
These changes seemed to Bonnie and myself as a bit too much for children in the second grade. So we decided to try Homeschooling ourselves. We did not know anyone who did it. We did not know any Homeschool Groups. We did know that the Mennonites and Amish do it, so we asked around, and found the Mennonite curriculums.
We started using CLE (Christian Light Education) which comes from the same school-system as does ‘Rod and Staff’, in 1992-ish.
We buy each grade-level once, and re-use each on the rest of the siblings. Daniel was turning 16 when we returned stateside this last time. He was finishing the 9th grade curriculum and we wanted an outside opinion of his educational level and what areas he truly needed to work on. I took him to the local community college and asked that he be tested accordingly. They give him an entrance exam, and accepted him into college that day. The counselor seemed most urgent that Daniel NOT attend the local public High-school, saying that attending such would only be wasting those years. Apparently many if not most of the High-school graduates they receive still need a great deal of remedial work, so the college would rather accept a child who has honestly completed the 8th or 9th grade. And just avoid wasting those years in a high-school.
“*And did you feel you had a choice?”
I don’t know. There are certainly many many choices today though.
”*How did you choose a course of study (or whatever it may be called) for your child(ren)?”
We looked at a sample. We liked it. They even offered a ‘teaching certificate’ course to my wife, that she could take while Daniel was taking his first courses. Bonnie did and she now has a ‘teaching certificate’. At our next duty-station (Bremerton Washington), as our next child was starting public school, the school board even offered my wife a job as a teacher. Based on the CLE ‘Teaching certificate’. Which took Bonnie about 6 weeks to complete.
Courses? We do not pay the extra fee for CLE to maintain records. We went through the course-work available and basically just left out the religious doctrinal stuff. We purchased most everything else they offer for their basic curriculum.
“*How did you children adapt to it? How do they cope with it now?”
Wonderfully.
Even when we have had to Home-school our foster children, they have done very well with it. Our current foster-children are a sibling group, they had accumulated so much truancy in their previous placement that the school system was not recommending that they be advanced to the next higher grade-levels. We Homeschooled them over the summer, and the local school agreed to enroll them in the next higher grade-levels. We continued to work through curriculum at home on the weekends, and again the following summer. The beginning of their second school year in our home, they each tested ‘at grade-level’ or above. They are again attending public school and we are no longer Homeschooling them.
“*Do you have any regrets or anything you would change about homeschooling?”
No. It is really getter better and better. People feel the need to question Homeschoolers as much now as they did a decade ago. There are support groups, science fairs, legal-aid groups and even curriculum fairs.
Garth...yeah, I went through both private AND Huntsville city schools...and the city schools SUCKED...the teachers were indifferent...the administrators were a number one a-- holes and bullies...damn right I wouldn`t subject my kids to those punks.
As a matter of fact if one of em EVER tried with one of my kids what they did to me...they would certainly think they had run into a buzz saw.
Not to mention the kids at school nowadays with drugs and guns...and yeah even here in rural tennessee...about the time I was to enter my oldest in school...a student carried a gun to our county school and killed two students a teacher and injured another.....
Garth...maybe the poor quality of my public education plus the lack of guidance by parents is what made me vulnerable to a cult at 17...
My parents sucked my school sucked...maybe I am trying to do a little better for my children.
My resolve was formed when not one but TWO different teachers on seperate occasions, from said school system strongly exhorted us to consider homeschooling if we could not afford a private school for our daughter.....
When the teachers themselves are in despair over what they are not able to teach...(do mainly at that time to the time spent with a small problem element of children) ...it`s time to sit up and take notice.
Garth, you're sure doing a lot of projecting on the home schoolers here.
Public school: Money is not the problem. Funding goes up, scores go down. In nearly every school district in the nation.
The problem is more down at the roots: disintegration of our culture, and more to the point, the family.
I know there is a separatist back-to-the-woods evil gummit not gonna git me element out there who is home schooling. I've not run into any, though. We are the president of a local Christian homeschooling organization. We have 325+ families, representing over 1000 kids.
Is this movement a threat to public education? You bet it is. What to do? i'm not sure about that. But I AM sure about how to handle my kids.
I waiting for somebody to allege 'lack of socialization' as the big bugaboo of homeschoolers so I can explode that myth...
Nother thing Garth...even those who can afford private school in our area have gone with homeschooling due to the superior education quality and the oportunity to instill valuable morals and character.
In our local group there ar a couple of doctors families...several attornys families...a 2nd grade public school teacher (former) a nurse.. a retired pair of millionairs...you get the picture...it`s not just the nuts on the fringes chosing this option (though there are those too) ....it is mainly folks who do not want to sacrifice their children while awaiting a broken system to fix itself....
Maybe if you had kids, you might understand just how precious that little one is and how seriously we take our responsibility to raise that child in the most beneficial manner to THEM...to best enable THEM to succede in this world... not put them in school because that is what is best for the *system*
Many in our group entered their children in school with the mindset of helping fix the problems....guess what?? the system doesn`t WANT to be fixed nor do the teachers apreciate a parents concerns.
My kids went to public school and I taught in a public school. I went through school in the NYC school system and I had an excellent education....of course I graduated in 1959 from HS.
I had crowded classrooms and science classes with no labs....BUT every class was orderly...few discipline problems, at least those that lasted....any classroom will probably have 1 or 2 in a year.
The culture is not the same now. People are not the same now. We are much too diverse to "get along" and agree on all important issues. I think that a public education across the country as a whole will have to have totally minimal standards if we depend on Washington for money etc.
Japan and European countries have cultures which generally respect adults and authority - so government schools will work there because the kids know the score. Also, in terms of numbers...let's get real! How many kids does England put through school compared to US?
I believe it is grossly unfair to hold major cities to the identical standards of rural scools...they don't have identical resources!
Knowing what I know now, I would have seriously considered home schooling my own children IF I had all the facts then. If I were to raise children today there would be no contest...they would be home schooled "from birth".
Evan, money goes up, scores go down, ehh? You sound like an Alabama politician running for office trying to appeal to the 'We don't need no educational reform' crowd. Remember, I've lived in that state for many a year, and the appalling *lack* of care, quality, etc in the public system there is largely *because* of the pathetic lack of funds in many a system. I mean, when you have teachers paying for the students school supplies out of their own already meager paychecks in many of the poorer counties in that state, ... please spare me some unsubstantiated 'study' that says otherwise.
Rascal,
You know why I asked "What kind of schooling did you get? Public or home schooling? Thought so. ... And yet all you folks turned out to be rather smart individuals, hmmm?"? It was because I thought that, apparently either because of, or in spite of, the public education you got, you turned out to be a pretty smart individual.
Apparently your experience of the school system wasn't so rosy. Ok, point taken. But, for one thing, you can't use that to say "Gee, I was so dumb because of my sucky public school experience, that I got sucked up into some cult". (Sorry, but I don't go for the 'we were too dumb and brainless' reasoning for getting involved with TWI either, but that is another thread)
I went to Huntsville High (public school) and it was pretty good and had a good number of quality teachers, and it had its twits as well. And from what I hear nowadays, its still a good school overall. There are schools in northern Madison county that are even better, as my brother sends his daughter to one. And it too is well funded by the people in that district, again shooting down the money up, scores down 'formula'. -->
So maybe all this shows that it isn't the 'system' that is broke wholesale, but that there are areas that seriously needs to be fixed. And sorry but I don't go for this lie that 'the system doesn't want to be fixed', as part of that system includes teachers, a good number of them who do care and are fighting not only various pig headed administrators, but also a good many parents who are also part of the problem, who don't instill within their kids morals and ethics and learning that they live in a world with other people, but expect the educational 'system' to instill it for them, ranging from starting their days with prayer to teaching them not to bully other students or get into fights or other disciplinary problems, much of what should have been done by the parents to begin with. (And I know you don't fit into this description)
quote:My resolve was formed when not one but TWO different teachers on seperate occasions, from said school system strongly exhorted us to consider homeschooling if we could not afford a private school for our daughter.....
Well, for every teacher that says that, I'd be willing to bet you even $money$ that there are at least 2-3 who are more resolved to solve the problems and provide a good education for your kids. Cindy! here on Greasespot is one such individual I wager.
So its up to *everybody*; parents, teachers, administrators, students, and taxpayers, to make the 'system' work.
And no, I don't have to be a parent to know this, as this is (or should be) basic knowledge to all concerned. And it does concern us all.
Garth it is no lie...and I am offended that you would say this of me.
It is a mistake for you to think that you know how parents are treated if you do not have a child in the system...the system does NOT want to be fixed....just try to have any imput with the teachers and administrators today. They are arrogant and condecending...they will not listen and you are treated as a problem.... they are very offended if you offer suggestion and you are branded a trouble maker.
You would not believe the garbage that my sisters and friends have been dealing with in the last year or so....
I have had friends who have tried....trust me.
Tell ya another thing Garth....many folks don`t want their kids on ritalin (sp?) well if your kid is in the system it is just too bad...I saw in the news a couple of years back where a child in tenn was removed from the parents custody because of their refusal to put their son on it...sound far fetched?? It`s true...
I went to Grissom Garth...It was horrible...the asst principle was a horrendous liar and the principle was in later years dismissed from the school system for a variety of wierd behaviors...I remember the anger I felt at being at the mercy of these amoral creeps...
Yeah I DO think that crappy schools and inatentive uninvolved parents played an enormous role in my vulnerability as a teen...
As much as I respect you Garth, I do not think that you are well informed enough on this subject to be able to make an accurate judgement.
And as much as I respect you Rascal, you know nothing about the why's or wherefor's of why I say what I say. No, you don't, offended or not.
If it were a case of me speaking *JUST* from my own experience, then yeah, you have a valid point to make about me not having children to talk about the public school system and its effects on kids, parents, etc. BUT, what I'm saying is a result of (like I mentioned earlier) conversations with folks from BOTH sides of the aisle. So your 'you're not a parent, so you don't know' argument doesn't work here. No, it doesn't.
I know of one lady who is a VERY conciencious public school teacher who teaches high school, and you would definitely find your match in her if she heard your wholesale condemnation of 'the system does not want to be fixed' rountine, and she could easily shoot down a lot of what you are saying about it. Not of your personal experiences, but of your wholesale application of that to the whole system.
I've heard about Grissom, and I concur with you there. That school had (has?) a horrible reputation for its sucky quality of education. But that does not represent the whole school system, any more than Huntsville High does.
quote: It is a mistake for you to think that you know how parents are treated if you do not have a child in the system...the system does NOT want to be fixed....just try to have any imput with the teachers and administrators today. They are arrogant and condecending...they will not listen and you are treated as a problem.... they are very offended if you offer suggestion and you are branded a trouble maker.
And I've heard equally incredible acounts of teachers having the same kinds of problems with some parents. ... And the thing about all this? Is that your accounts, AND their accounts, are *both* true.
Sorry, but I will not throw out wholesale the value that our public education system can be (and still is!) for this country as a whole. It does need to be fixed, and the anal retentive jerks who do not want it fixed should be given the Donald Trump treatment: "You're fired!" And this can happen when enough parents, teachers, citizens, et al put up enough fire to their butts (home schooling being but one way of doing this) to force the change.
Garth Hon, my responsibility is to my children...not to let them be an experiment in a broken system.... hoping that all of the stars and planets will aligne to give them access to a good school with good teachers ...free from bullies ... drugs and guns... hoping that they aren`t unduly influenced by kids with no morals or character...
The proof to me is that everywhere I go...I am complimented extravigantly on the conduct of the children.
Their manners ... the respect they display...the care exhibited for Family and friends..their intellegence...They excell in every area that they choose to participate in...be it karate ..theatre .. sports.. they are several levels above their grade in reading and math skills...
It is that way with so many of the children of the home school families I know...
I am sorry that public school is in the mess it is, truly I am....but I adamantly refuse to sacrafice mine on the alter of trying to fix a broken system....nor will I abdicate my responsibility to them on the chance that I MIGHT get them into a decent school system ..or possibly get lucky and get some of those rare gems of teachers.... I know that they are out there.
It isn`t even the teachers fault...it`s the undisciplined kids....the drugs...the guns...the bullies ...the rampant sex ...even in the rural schools....Get this...the *cool* thing these days in our local school is for these teenaged girls to have *mixed* babies...they all meet at the local strip mall to parade their little darlings around...some of em are only THIRTEEN!!! This is not the environment I chose for my kids to be in....I like my kids being around other kids that chose to persue goals and live their lives with good character and morals.....
See my kids take karate with public school kids...we KNOW what it is like....they have told me that they are thankfull that we care enough to take the time to give them the best we can.
It isn`t easy, trust me..It`d be a whole lot easier to send em off for 9 hours a day... There are many many things that make it worth while and more important to us than trying to fix something that won`t acknowledge it`s even broke.
Garth, I`d also like to reiterate...it was not one but two seperate Huntsville City school teachers who strongly exhorted us to home school our children...the teachers IN the system themselves! Up to that point I had never even considered the possibility.
That was what opened my eyes to the need to go the extra mile for my kiddoes. This was not a decision undertaken lightly.
quote:just try to have any imput with the teachers and administrators today. They are arrogant and condecending...they will not listen and you are treated as a problem.... they are very offended if you offer suggestion and you are branded a trouble maker.
I can only speak about my own experience, but it echoes rascal's. I went to school in one of the best public school systems in CT, probably one of the best in the country at that time. My father was a teacher there. I loved it! I took advantage of a lot of interesting courses and many gifted teachers. I have always loved learning, and still do.
I returned to CT with 2 daughters. I moved back mostly because of the good education I knew they would get. It was a very expensive place to live as a single parent. Many times over the next several years, I would wonder if it was worth it.
Kid #1 had some minor problems adjusting to the divorce and the new surroundings. She was picked on at school. The teacher was not interceding, and when I spoke to her, she didn't sound like she would. I volunteered to do a program for her class one day, and when I got there, she wasn't there. The kids were alone. I must have gotten at least ten minutes into my program before she showed up. She spun her absence to me afterwards, saying she had "just gone next door to the other classroom for a minute." Uh huh.
Over the years, I had mentioned in parent-teacher conferences that kid #1 had trouble with reading, especially if she had to transfer a test answer to a separate sheet of paper (you know, color in the little bubbles?). No one did anything (now I know I should have insisted that the administration test her). We spent long hours at home, making the dull facts on the page come alive so that she could retain the information. It was clear that she knew the info cold, but could still nearly flunk the test at the end of the week. In high school, she went herself to the guidance office, and someone did look at her. They said, "You're right, you do have some specific learning disabilities; but you've learned to compensate for them so well, we aren't going to do anything about it!"
When it was time to plan for college, she knew she wanted to major in interior design -- had her portfolio reviewed at a college so she knew what she needed. But her guidance counselor AND principal laughed at her enthusiasm over one school we had visited, and told her she should go to another school they had selected -- one that didn't even HAVE her major! I went into the guidance office, and read that guy the riot act.
Daughter #1 did great in the college of her choice, making the Who's Who of Junior Colleges by recommendation of faculty and peers. She went on to transfer to a very good 4-year school and got her degree. AND, she loves to read.
This is already too long, so I won't go into daughter #2 and my son, but suffice to say that as long as they were not bothering anyone, things were fine, they got educations that would clearly make them able to succeed at college. But if they needed any extra effort made on their behalf, this most well-endowed public school couldn't be bothered. And attempts by me to ask for help were often met with resistance, and I had to go above the head of the person who should have responded to get things done. In the case of my son, I was actually lied to, more than once.
I have no problems with people who prefer home schooling, as long as they do it well and it works for their kid. I have considered it more than once.
Perhaps there is one thing that I now realize that perhaps you might be mistaking me on:
And thats I'm not telling you where to send your kids. I never mentioned that, nor do I even try to persuade you to do that in a round about way. If I came across that way, my apologies, as that was not my intent.
All I was addressing was the public school issues *in general* and *overall*. Even with me not having any kids, and never been in a public school for 30 years now, I also realize the horrid mess a lot of them are in. I also realize that quite a number of them are a lot better than that. And that there are a larger 'handful' of teachers that are doing their dead level best to improve things.
You don't have to send your kids back to public school to put the heat on the public school officials. The fact that you are home schooling them is quite a statement (indictment even) in itself. All I'm saying is that the system itself has worked before, and can still work again, with enough effort by American society to do so.
Thanks for clarifying Garth...I truly wish the system would work...when /if it ever does, trust me I will be the first on board....lol
This home schooling gig is exhausting.
You are correct, at one time our nations school produced astounding individuals, and yes, there are some pockets that still do.
It is embarassing though, to see how our students rank world wide education wise....we have fallen so far below the standard... I guess that because of my experiences I that I despair of seeing those in chjarge in the system willing to humble themselves enough to be willing to examine the shortcomings and address the failings.
"Garth, I`d also like to reiterate...it was not one but two seperate Huntsville City school teachers who strongly exhorted us to home school our children...the teachers IN the system themselves! Up to that point I had never even considered the possibility."
As a Homeschooling parent, I also have children attending public school, in various grades. When we meet with the teachers, whether young or old, brand new or experienced; a common theme among them exists. None of them would ever allow their own child to attend public school.
We work with the schools. We know the teachers, the secretarys and principals. We argue with them, we fight them and we fight their agendas. We attend the open houses and meetings, the PPts and the curriculum reviews. We currently have children attending Elmentary school, Middle school and High school.
Our observation from our experiences is that the over-whelming majority of parents simply dont care, and do not want to fight with the system, to get their children a good education. Apathy is the rule of the day.
Ct teachers are NOT under-paid. Not in any sense what so ever. And they have a great union. They know that their system stinks and they would never dream of allowing their own children to be abused and neglected in that way.
We have considered homeschool, and it is always an option. It has some clear advantages.
We live in an area where the public schools are good. My kids do very well in school, and have had some great experiences and opportunities.
We have had some things come up over the years, and I am not shy about calling the teacher or the principal, and I have seen things worked out to my satifaction.
For instance, a few years ago, we had problems with a bully and our school has a no tolerance policy, but it wasn't getting better. The problem--the teachers were not on the playground, they have aides who do playground duty, and the aides weren't noticing/reporting things like they should. Once that got figured out, the problem child quit being a problem.
I have yet to have a teacher that was incompetent or uncaring, nor are my kids coming home with bizarro values learned at school. Most of the bizarro stuff they pick up comes from their friends, and that gives dad and I a good reason to teach them something.
So I have no compelling reason to homeschool at this time, but I like to keep my options open.
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tcat5
Hi there Chas! I'll try to answer your questions on home schooling.
The why for us was 1.grade school kids were being arrested for selling drugs, yikes. 2.There is a huge percentage of high school grads in this city that can't read or write. 3.Our kidlet's way of learning would have not worked with the puplic school's way of teaching. 4.At this time when we got her hearing tested she could only hear 50% in one ear and 25% in the other. She has since had her hearing restored due to answer to prayer.
As far as picking curriculum, that's the hard part, because there are soooo many out there. We pick and choose, some years I just make one up. Sometimes like last year we bought Switched on Schoolhouse. It was on the puter, and even schedualled and graded the work. you have to figure out what your kid and you will like.
The kid loves home schooling, but she's never been to public school. But she has many friends that go to public school, and of course home school friends. I ask her every summer if she wants to go to public school in the fall. And she always says NO WAY!
Regrets, only when I have to grade her papers. Basically it's become just another part of our lives.
The first thing I would do is try to find out if there are any home schooling groups where you live. We have several here in Austin. Hook up with them and pick their brains. (eewww
;)-->)
Also every state has different laws aboout home schooling. Here in Texas the law sees each home schooling family as a private school and must teach 5 basic subjects. The nice part is you can teach it how ever you like. (we watch the History Channel a lot).
Also check out you library. More and more of them are keeping books about home schooling.
Hope this is somewhat helpful. I would give you some web sites, but I'd have to find that note first. Love to Learn is one of my favorites. And Elijah Company. Both have websites and will send you a catalogue if you ask.
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rascal
I home school my kids chas... Been doing it for 10 years....I have watched the majority of the kids around us growing into intelligent..well balanced successfull individuals.
Colleges here in Tenn have begun to PREFER homeschoolers sighting that they are generally better prepared scholastically and more mature upon their arrival.
The last few years the national geography and spelling bee winners have been dominated by homeschoolers.
Our kids do well with their regular studies and then are free to persue other interests....drama..karate...athletics..scouting to name a few..most of our kids would be bored silly in a class room...most would rather work hard and get the work done so that they are free to perue other studies that interest them.
When I look at the fine upstanding adults these kids are developing into (not just mine) compared with the many trouble makers I know from the public schools ....the differences are significant enough to make it all worth while.
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Oakspear
My children were mostly home schooled. We mainly did it because the two oldest didn't seem to be learning anything in public school.
Four of my six never went to public school.
For some weird reason, when most people express a negative opinion about home schooling, they point to the supposed "lack of socialization", which is a myth IMHO.
Another thing: if you home school, do things at the pace that works best for you and your kids. Who says that what the local school curriculum says a 9 year-old should know is really what your child needs to know? One of the great benefits is flexibility, don't get tied down to the same schedule as the local schools if that's not what you want to do.
That being said, if your going to home school, it's a COMMITTMENT. While there's nothing that says that you have to be hitting the books from 8 - 3 every day, or that you can't take a day off, there has to be consistancy, it can't just be something that you do "when you have time".
My ex-wife did most of the teaching of the kids since she was home and I worked outside the home. It went well for quite a few years, but problems in our marriage and with TWI leadership caused her to neglect her teaching after a while. One of the things that I would do upon coming home from work was to ask the kids about what they learned, to give them a chance to "release" and to reinforce the lessons. I would come home at 6:00 in the evening to discover that their mom had slept in until noon and no school work had been done...day after day. In my situation, I regret having started the home schooling, although in principle I think it's a good idea if you can stick with it day after day.
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Oakspear
Oh yeah...it's important to know the laws too. A good resource is the Home School Legal Defense Association
http://www.hslda.org/Default.asp?bhcp=1
which provides legal advice and representation to members for a reasonable annual retainer (it used to be $100)
In many areas even local school districts are unaware of the law and will insist on sending "observers" or truant officers into your home, even though it's illegal in most jurisdictions. School districts will pass regulations that they say are legal but are not. In some areas nosey neighbors will sic the cops or child protective services on you if they see your kids home on a school day. I know of people who kept HSLDA's phone number right by the phone...they'd hand the phone to the cop or social worker before letting them in the house.
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GarthP2000
Rascal (and other home school parents),
What kind of schooling did you get? Public or home schooling?
Thought so. ... And yet all you folks turned out to be rather smart individuals, hmmm?
I keep hearing this kind of debate time and again between the public schoolers and home schoolers and, beyond the valid points raised by those who home school their children about the actual flaws residing in the public schools, I see many times where public schools in as a whole being portrayed as a losing situation that benefits no one, or as a kind of 'statist' attempt to take away parental control of their kids, or as some part of some Commie/one-world-government/end times scenario.
And its especially interesting in that many of the parents and others who b*tch about the quality of public schools are usually the staunchest opponents of increased funding for those schools, particularly when it involves *raising taxes* ((GASP)) by a couple of pennies per thousand $ of proerty taxes or some other such miniscule amount! (Classic case of this is Alabama, whose public schools are a laughing stock as compared to the rest of the country, a lot of it due to the state house refusing to provide ample funding, because they are so *scared* to raise the already LOW state taxes.)
There are still some public schools that do very well in the quality of their instruction/control of discipline. And usually those are the ones who get a good amount of funding and their teachers are paid *well*. Some folks yammer on about 'throwing good money after bad' in their ignorant dismissal of the need for increased funding by the taxpayers. I know that spending money itself isn't enough, but its a lot better than cutting the necessary funding to the bone, especially when we have politicians who call for the dismantling of the U.S. Dept. of Education.
Oh by the way, here's another point we all might want to consider. European and Japanese public schools, which have a lot MORE of 'gummint' involvement in their operations as a whole, are by and large, a lot BETTER in quality in their cirriculum and discipline. And compare very favorably to not only private schools, but also many home schools as well.
???
I'm sorry, but could someone explain the discrepancy between this fact and the 'public schools = statist and godless failures' formula?
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Steve!
Garth, do you have children? I'm not asking this to say that if you don't, your points aren't valid. But the answer does help to put a frame of reference on your comments.
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GarthP2000
I knew that this question was gonna come up, altho' I'm glad that you aren't using this for the purpose for the brush-off of "Since you don't have children, you can't say" song-and-dance.
No, Steve, I don't have children. And my frame of reference is based on talking to parents, and teachers from both sides of the aisle, as well as hearing all kinds of tirades about/against public schools ranging from parents having a lot of frustration with inept and abusive teachers/administrators in those schools, to Libertarian-leaning, anti-NEA, Neil Boortz wannabees squawking about 'gummint' schools "brainwashing our children to goosestep to the State", to public schools being somehow associated with the end times in preparing the kids for The One World Government with all the athiest and New Age anti-Christian programs, to ... yadayadayada.
So I hope you excuse my George Aar-like skepticism voiced here.
Actually, contrary to what might first appear, I for one am glad that home schooling is doing as well as it is, as for one thing, it is (or should be) giving the public schools the kick in the a** that it needs to deal with its very real problems that is leading parents to pull their kids out of public schools like they are. And I am also dead set against whatever public school teachers and administrators taking legal action against home schools in general, simply because they are providing effective competition to public education. Now if the parents/home schoolers *aren't* doing their jobs in educating the kids, then yes, legal action should be taken.
My concern is that public education, as a whole, is in danger of being blamed in such a wholesale way, and dismantled as a result. I know that there are some who believe that public education should not be done by the government, be it because of some ((cough)) 'interpretation' of the Constitution, or because of some paranoid fear of 'they are taking my parental rights away from me!', or for some other mickey mouse reasoning.
I disagree. I am for public education. For good, quality, disciplined, tax paid public education. Along with the same quality and disciplined private and home schooled education.
Just as long as it is good education.
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Steve!
Good points, Garth.
I think that vouchers would also give public schools a much-needed kick in the but.
Cindy! is a school teacher, and she recently came out of the Chicago Public School system, and into another.
When her kids were in CPS schools, she would much rather have home-schooled them, but for us it really wasn't an option.
Now in the suburbs, the schools are much better, and are meeting our children's needs much better. Although we do still consider home schooling at times.
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Galen
Hi there Chas!
“*Why did you choose to homeschool or not?”
In 1991 our eldest son was in public school (He started schooling in Scotland, though in 1991 we transferred Stateside and he started in a local public school here). He was having a lot of troubles at the bus stop, on the bus and during school with hazing from other children. He had a speech impediment from a hearing disorder (too much sonigrams as a fetus). Anyway we complained to the school, but they did not care about fights and bullying on the bus. My wife began following the bus and taking pictures of the bullying behaviors, but when presented with the photos the local school board suggested that we dis-enroll the child if he could not stand up for himself better.
At the time, we knew nothing about Homeschooling. Other than the fact that my grand-parents had taught grammar school to the neighborhood children during the first 2 decades of the 1900’s, and they used a single book to teach out of (? McGruffy Reader ? I think). While my family-line has been in America since the 1790s my siblings and I were the first to receive a government funded education. It is my understanding that the idea of a public educational system was an experiment.
At the same time, we were seeing Slick Willy’s effects on the public school system. Locally they stripped our library of books which referenced nucleus family life, or married male-female couples. In favour of Single-parent homes and “alternative lifestyle” homes.
There was a local newspaper article about the ‘new’ safe-sex program that was starting at the second grade. Since Hillary insisted that the curriculum be “alternative” Friendly, it had to include safe-sex techniques for lesbians and gays as well as heteros.
These changes seemed to Bonnie and myself as a bit too much for children in the second grade. So we decided to try Homeschooling ourselves. We did not know anyone who did it. We did not know any Homeschool Groups. We did know that the Mennonites and Amish do it, so we asked around, and found the Mennonite curriculums.
We started using CLE (Christian Light Education) which comes from the same school-system as does ‘Rod and Staff’, in 1992-ish.
We buy each grade-level once, and re-use each on the rest of the siblings. Daniel was turning 16 when we returned stateside this last time. He was finishing the 9th grade curriculum and we wanted an outside opinion of his educational level and what areas he truly needed to work on. I took him to the local community college and asked that he be tested accordingly. They give him an entrance exam, and accepted him into college that day. The counselor seemed most urgent that Daniel NOT attend the local public High-school, saying that attending such would only be wasting those years. Apparently many if not most of the High-school graduates they receive still need a great deal of remedial work, so the college would rather accept a child who has honestly completed the 8th or 9th grade. And just avoid wasting those years in a high-school.
“*And did you feel you had a choice?”
I don’t know. There are certainly many many choices today though.
”*How did you choose a course of study (or whatever it may be called) for your child(ren)?”
We looked at a sample. We liked it. They even offered a ‘teaching certificate’ course to my wife, that she could take while Daniel was taking his first courses. Bonnie did and she now has a ‘teaching certificate’. At our next duty-station (Bremerton Washington), as our next child was starting public school, the school board even offered my wife a job as a teacher. Based on the CLE ‘Teaching certificate’. Which took Bonnie about 6 weeks to complete.
Courses? We do not pay the extra fee for CLE to maintain records. We went through the course-work available and basically just left out the religious doctrinal stuff. We purchased most everything else they offer for their basic curriculum.
“*How did you children adapt to it? How do they cope with it now?”
Wonderfully.
Even when we have had to Home-school our foster children, they have done very well with it. Our current foster-children are a sibling group, they had accumulated so much truancy in their previous placement that the school system was not recommending that they be advanced to the next higher grade-levels. We Homeschooled them over the summer, and the local school agreed to enroll them in the next higher grade-levels. We continued to work through curriculum at home on the weekends, and again the following summer. The beginning of their second school year in our home, they each tested ‘at grade-level’ or above. They are again attending public school and we are no longer Homeschooling them.
“*Do you have any regrets or anything you would change about homeschooling?”
No. It is really getter better and better. People feel the need to question Homeschoolers as much now as they did a decade ago. There are support groups, science fairs, legal-aid groups and even curriculum fairs.
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rascal
Garth...yeah, I went through both private AND Huntsville city schools...and the city schools SUCKED...the teachers were indifferent...the administrators were a number one a-- holes and bullies...damn right I wouldn`t subject my kids to those punks.
As a matter of fact if one of em EVER tried with one of my kids what they did to me...they would certainly think they had run into a buzz saw.
Not to mention the kids at school nowadays with drugs and guns...and yeah even here in rural tennessee...about the time I was to enter my oldest in school...a student carried a gun to our county school and killed two students a teacher and injured another.....
Garth...maybe the poor quality of my public education plus the lack of guidance by parents is what made me vulnerable to a cult at 17...
My parents sucked my school sucked...maybe I am trying to do a little better for my children.
My resolve was formed when not one but TWO different teachers on seperate occasions, from said school system strongly exhorted us to consider homeschooling if we could not afford a private school for our daughter.....
When the teachers themselves are in despair over what they are not able to teach...(do mainly at that time to the time spent with a small problem element of children) ...it`s time to sit up and take notice.
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TheEvan
Garth, you're sure doing a lot of projecting on the home schoolers here.
Public school: Money is not the problem. Funding goes up, scores go down. In nearly every school district in the nation.
The problem is more down at the roots: disintegration of our culture, and more to the point, the family.
I know there is a separatist back-to-the-woods evil gummit not gonna git me element out there who is home schooling. I've not run into any, though. We are the president of a local Christian homeschooling organization. We have 325+ families, representing over 1000 kids.
Is this movement a threat to public education? You bet it is. What to do? i'm not sure about that. But I AM sure about how to handle my kids.
I waiting for somebody to allege 'lack of socialization' as the big bugaboo of homeschoolers so I can explode that myth...
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rascal
Nother thing Garth...even those who can afford private school in our area have gone with homeschooling due to the superior education quality and the oportunity to instill valuable morals and character.
In our local group there ar a couple of doctors families...several attornys families...a 2nd grade public school teacher (former) a nurse.. a retired pair of millionairs...you get the picture...it`s not just the nuts on the fringes chosing this option (though there are those too) ....it is mainly folks who do not want to sacrifice their children while awaiting a broken system to fix itself....
Maybe if you had kids, you might understand just how precious that little one is and how seriously we take our responsibility to raise that child in the most beneficial manner to THEM...to best enable THEM to succede in this world... not put them in school because that is what is best for the *system*
Many in our group entered their children in school with the mindset of helping fix the problems....guess what?? the system doesn`t WANT to be fixed nor do the teachers apreciate a parents concerns.
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krys
My kids went to public school and I taught in a public school. I went through school in the NYC school system and I had an excellent education....of course I graduated in 1959 from HS.
I had crowded classrooms and science classes with no labs....BUT every class was orderly...few discipline problems, at least those that lasted....any classroom will probably have 1 or 2 in a year.
The culture is not the same now. People are not the same now. We are much too diverse to "get along" and agree on all important issues. I think that a public education across the country as a whole will have to have totally minimal standards if we depend on Washington for money etc.
Japan and European countries have cultures which generally respect adults and authority - so government schools will work there because the kids know the score. Also, in terms of numbers...let's get real! How many kids does England put through school compared to US?
I believe it is grossly unfair to hold major cities to the identical standards of rural scools...they don't have identical resources!
Knowing what I know now, I would have seriously considered home schooling my own children IF I had all the facts then. If I were to raise children today there would be no contest...they would be home schooled "from birth".
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GarthP2000
Geee, where to begin.
Evan, money goes up, scores go down, ehh? You sound like an Alabama politician running for office trying to appeal to the 'We don't need no educational reform' crowd. Remember, I've lived in that state for many a year, and the appalling *lack* of care, quality, etc in the public system there is largely *because* of the pathetic lack of funds in many a system. I mean, when you have teachers paying for the students school supplies out of their own already meager paychecks in many of the poorer counties in that state, ... please spare me some unsubstantiated 'study' that says otherwise.
Rascal,
You know why I asked "What kind of schooling did you get? Public or home schooling? Thought so. ... And yet all you folks turned out to be rather smart individuals, hmmm?"? It was because I thought that, apparently either because of, or in spite of, the public education you got, you turned out to be a pretty smart individual.
Apparently your experience of the school system wasn't so rosy. Ok, point taken. But, for one thing, you can't use that to say "Gee, I was so dumb because of my sucky public school experience, that I got sucked up into some cult". (Sorry, but I don't go for the 'we were too dumb and brainless' reasoning for getting involved with TWI either, but that is another thread)
I went to Huntsville High (public school) and it was pretty good and had a good number of quality teachers, and it had its twits as well. And from what I hear nowadays, its still a good school overall. There are schools in northern Madison county that are even better, as my brother sends his daughter to one. And it too is well funded by the people in that district, again shooting down the money up, scores down 'formula'.
-->
So maybe all this shows that it isn't the 'system' that is broke wholesale, but that there are areas that seriously needs to be fixed. And sorry but I don't go for this lie that 'the system doesn't want to be fixed', as part of that system includes teachers, a good number of them who do care and are fighting not only various pig headed administrators, but also a good many parents who are also part of the problem, who don't instill within their kids morals and ethics and learning that they live in a world with other people, but expect the educational 'system' to instill it for them, ranging from starting their days with prayer to teaching them not to bully other students or get into fights or other disciplinary problems, much of what should have been done by the parents to begin with. (And I know you don't fit into this description)
Well, for every teacher that says that, I'd be willing to bet you even $money$ that there are at least 2-3 who are more resolved to solve the problems and provide a good education for your kids. Cindy! here on Greasespot is one such individual I wager.
So its up to *everybody*; parents, teachers, administrators, students, and taxpayers, to make the 'system' work.
And no, I don't have to be a parent to know this, as this is (or should be) basic knowledge to all concerned. And it does concern us all.
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rascal
Garth it is no lie...and I am offended that you would say this of me.
It is a mistake for you to think that you know how parents are treated if you do not have a child in the system...the system does NOT want to be fixed....just try to have any imput with the teachers and administrators today. They are arrogant and condecending...they will not listen and you are treated as a problem.... they are very offended if you offer suggestion and you are branded a trouble maker.
You would not believe the garbage that my sisters and friends have been dealing with in the last year or so....
I have had friends who have tried....trust me.
Tell ya another thing Garth....many folks don`t want their kids on ritalin (sp?) well if your kid is in the system it is just too bad...I saw in the news a couple of years back where a child in tenn was removed from the parents custody because of their refusal to put their son on it...sound far fetched?? It`s true...
I went to Grissom Garth...It was horrible...the asst principle was a horrendous liar and the principle was in later years dismissed from the school system for a variety of wierd behaviors...I remember the anger I felt at being at the mercy of these amoral creeps...
Yeah I DO think that crappy schools and inatentive uninvolved parents played an enormous role in my vulnerability as a teen...
As much as I respect you Garth, I do not think that you are well informed enough on this subject to be able to make an accurate judgement.
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GarthP2000
And as much as I respect you Rascal, you know nothing about the why's or wherefor's of why I say what I say. No, you don't, offended or not.
If it were a case of me speaking *JUST* from my own experience, then yeah, you have a valid point to make about me not having children to talk about the public school system and its effects on kids, parents, etc. BUT, what I'm saying is a result of (like I mentioned earlier) conversations with folks from BOTH sides of the aisle. So your 'you're not a parent, so you don't know' argument doesn't work here. No, it doesn't.
I know of one lady who is a VERY conciencious public school teacher who teaches high school, and you would definitely find your match in her if she heard your wholesale condemnation of 'the system does not want to be fixed' rountine, and she could easily shoot down a lot of what you are saying about it. Not of your personal experiences, but of your wholesale application of that to the whole system.
I've heard about Grissom, and I concur with you there. That school had (has?) a horrible reputation for its sucky quality of education. But that does not represent the whole school system, any more than Huntsville High does.
And I've heard equally incredible acounts of teachers having the same kinds of problems with some parents. ... And the thing about all this? Is that your accounts, AND their accounts, are *both* true.
Sorry, but I will not throw out wholesale the value that our public education system can be (and still is!) for this country as a whole. It does need to be fixed, and the anal retentive jerks who do not want it fixed should be given the Donald Trump treatment: "You're fired!" And this can happen when enough parents, teachers, citizens, et al put up enough fire to their butts (home schooling being but one way of doing this) to force the change.
It can be done. It really can.
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rascal
Garth Hon, my responsibility is to my children...not to let them be an experiment in a broken system.... hoping that all of the stars and planets will aligne to give them access to a good school with good teachers ...free from bullies ... drugs and guns... hoping that they aren`t unduly influenced by kids with no morals or character...
The proof to me is that everywhere I go...I am complimented extravigantly on the conduct of the children.
Their manners ... the respect they display...the care exhibited for Family and friends..their intellegence...They excell in every area that they choose to participate in...be it karate ..theatre .. sports.. they are several levels above their grade in reading and math skills...
It is that way with so many of the children of the home school families I know...
I am sorry that public school is in the mess it is, truly I am....but I adamantly refuse to sacrafice mine on the alter of trying to fix a broken system....nor will I abdicate my responsibility to them on the chance that I MIGHT get them into a decent school system ..or possibly get lucky and get some of those rare gems of teachers.... I know that they are out there.
It isn`t even the teachers fault...it`s the undisciplined kids....the drugs...the guns...the bullies ...the rampant sex ...even in the rural schools....Get this...the *cool* thing these days in our local school is for these teenaged girls to have *mixed* babies...they all meet at the local strip mall to parade their little darlings around...some of em are only THIRTEEN!!! This is not the environment I chose for my kids to be in....I like my kids being around other kids that chose to persue goals and live their lives with good character and morals.....
See my kids take karate with public school kids...we KNOW what it is like....they have told me that they are thankfull that we care enough to take the time to give them the best we can.
It isn`t easy, trust me..It`d be a whole lot easier to send em off for 9 hours a day... There are many many things that make it worth while and more important to us than trying to fix something that won`t acknowledge it`s even broke.
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rascal
Garth, I`d also like to reiterate...it was not one but two seperate Huntsville City school teachers who strongly exhorted us to home school our children...the teachers IN the system themselves! Up to that point I had never even considered the possibility.
That was what opened my eyes to the need to go the extra mile for my kiddoes. This was not a decision undertaken lightly.
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shazdancer
rascal said...
I can only speak about my own experience, but it echoes rascal's. I went to school in one of the best public school systems in CT, probably one of the best in the country at that time. My father was a teacher there. I loved it! I took advantage of a lot of interesting courses and many gifted teachers. I have always loved learning, and still do.I returned to CT with 2 daughters. I moved back mostly because of the good education I knew they would get. It was a very expensive place to live as a single parent. Many times over the next several years, I would wonder if it was worth it.
Kid #1 had some minor problems adjusting to the divorce and the new surroundings. She was picked on at school. The teacher was not interceding, and when I spoke to her, she didn't sound like she would. I volunteered to do a program for her class one day, and when I got there, she wasn't there. The kids were alone. I must have gotten at least ten minutes into my program before she showed up. She spun her absence to me afterwards, saying she had "just gone next door to the other classroom for a minute." Uh huh.
Over the years, I had mentioned in parent-teacher conferences that kid #1 had trouble with reading, especially if she had to transfer a test answer to a separate sheet of paper (you know, color in the little bubbles?). No one did anything (now I know I should have insisted that the administration test her). We spent long hours at home, making the dull facts on the page come alive so that she could retain the information. It was clear that she knew the info cold, but could still nearly flunk the test at the end of the week. In high school, she went herself to the guidance office, and someone did look at her. They said, "You're right, you do have some specific learning disabilities; but you've learned to compensate for them so well, we aren't going to do anything about it!"
When it was time to plan for college, she knew she wanted to major in interior design -- had her portfolio reviewed at a college so she knew what she needed. But her guidance counselor AND principal laughed at her enthusiasm over one school we had visited, and told her she should go to another school they had selected -- one that didn't even HAVE her major! I went into the guidance office, and read that guy the riot act.
Daughter #1 did great in the college of her choice, making the Who's Who of Junior Colleges by recommendation of faculty and peers. She went on to transfer to a very good 4-year school and got her degree. AND, she loves to read.
This is already too long, so I won't go into daughter #2 and my son, but suffice to say that as long as they were not bothering anyone, things were fine, they got educations that would clearly make them able to succeed at college. But if they needed any extra effort made on their behalf, this most well-endowed public school couldn't be bothered. And attempts by me to ask for help were often met with resistance, and I had to go above the head of the person who should have responded to get things done. In the case of my son, I was actually lied to, more than once.
I have no problems with people who prefer home schooling, as long as they do it well and it works for their kid. I have considered it more than once.
Regards,
Shaz
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GarthP2000
Rascal,
Perhaps there is one thing that I now realize that perhaps you might be mistaking me on:
And thats I'm not telling you where to send your kids. I never mentioned that, nor do I even try to persuade you to do that in a round about way. If I came across that way, my apologies, as that was not my intent.
All I was addressing was the public school issues *in general* and *overall*. Even with me not having any kids, and never been in a public school for 30 years now, I also realize the horrid mess a lot of them are in. I also realize that quite a number of them are a lot better than that. And that there are a larger 'handful' of teachers that are doing their dead level best to improve things.
You don't have to send your kids back to public school to put the heat on the public school officials. The fact that you are home schooling them is quite a statement (indictment even) in itself. All I'm saying is that the system itself has worked before, and can still work again, with enough effort by American society to do so.
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rascal
Thanks for clarifying Garth...I truly wish the system would work...when /if it ever does, trust me I will be the first on board....lol
This home schooling gig is exhausting.
You are correct, at one time our nations school produced astounding individuals, and yes, there are some pockets that still do.
It is embarassing though, to see how our students rank world wide education wise....we have fallen so far below the standard... I guess that because of my experiences I that I despair of seeing those in chjarge in the system willing to humble themselves enough to be willing to examine the shortcomings and address the failings.
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Galen
rascal:
"Garth, I`d also like to reiterate...it was not one but two seperate Huntsville City school teachers who strongly exhorted us to home school our children...the teachers IN the system themselves! Up to that point I had never even considered the possibility."
As a Homeschooling parent, I also have children attending public school, in various grades. When we meet with the teachers, whether young or old, brand new or experienced; a common theme among them exists. None of them would ever allow their own child to attend public school.
We work with the schools. We know the teachers, the secretarys and principals. We argue with them, we fight them and we fight their agendas. We attend the open houses and meetings, the PPts and the curriculum reviews. We currently have children attending Elmentary school, Middle school and High school.
Our observation from our experiences is that the over-whelming majority of parents simply dont care, and do not want to fight with the system, to get their children a good education. Apathy is the rule of the day.
Ct teachers are NOT under-paid. Not in any sense what so ever. And they have a great union. They know that their system stinks and they would never dream of allowing their own children to be abused and neglected in that way.
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Bramble
We live in an area where the schools are good, which was one of the reasons we moved here.
The teachers my kids have this year are very good--one we had a couple years ago.
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Bramble
We have considered homeschool, and it is always an option. It has some clear advantages.
We live in an area where the public schools are good. My kids do very well in school, and have had some great experiences and opportunities.
We have had some things come up over the years, and I am not shy about calling the teacher or the principal, and I have seen things worked out to my satifaction.
For instance, a few years ago, we had problems with a bully and our school has a no tolerance policy, but it wasn't getting better. The problem--the teachers were not on the playground, they have aides who do playground duty, and the aides weren't noticing/reporting things like they should. Once that got figured out, the problem child quit being a problem.
I have yet to have a teacher that was incompetent or uncaring, nor are my kids coming home with bizarro values learned at school. Most of the bizarro stuff they pick up comes from their friends, and that gives dad and I a good reason to teach them something.
So I have no compelling reason to homeschool at this time, but I like to keep my options open.
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