BTW - if any of you have an "oxygen generator" aka oxygen concentrator - don't hook it up like that because the back pressure will render your machine useless PDQ!
"Put a little extra oxygen in some holy water, stir until you can see the face of Jesus and you have the answer to long life and health."
No, no, no. Everybody knows you can only see the face of Jesus in a tortilla, well, sometimes in a grilled chees sandwich, but you really have to be believing.
BTW - if any of you have an "oxygen generator" aka oxygen concentrator - don't hook it up like that because the back pressure will render your machine useless PDQ!
Krys, sorry it was you that took the bait off my little hook. Guess I should have figured from your suggestion early on that the thread be shut down and made a private topic because nobody would be interested in discussing oxygenated water.
But that was before you tried some and found it helped- unless that was merely deception as well. Why you even emailed me and wanted a corny keg. But, alas, when I replied saying I'd be happy to send you an extra one I had and all I needed was an address to send it to, why my email was sent back to me as undeliverable. I even posted on the private topic you started that there was a problem with your email address, but alas I've heard nothing back from you since and so my generous offer is now withdrawn.
Fact is that I don't wish my enemies well- I hope they fail completely! I know the scripture says we're to love our enemies, but that presumes that we first recognize that we have enemies and who they are. I rather hope that Osama Bin Ladan gets caught, and punished if it's proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he was behind the 9/11 distruction. Don't know that I have the capacity to love him because he's no more to me than pictures in the newspaper, not someone that is a known enemy to me personally. Hell, he could be using the name Zixar on this thread for all I know.
As for your warning about oxygen generators (or concentrators as the case might be), I doubt that any of them are designed so closely that you'll burn out a motor if you put your finger over the delivery tube and stop the flow of oxygen. I suppose it could happen if you did so long enough, but i rather doubt it even then. I do know that they are used for the portable hyperbaric chambers (up to 6 psi) being widely used outside the medical profession these days, and although they are higher volume generators than the ones commonly used for those who are on oxygen in the home, I don't think the air pumps are substantially different in design or efficiency.
I did talk to two friends yesterday about the matter and both agreed that using the generator to make oxygenated water was unlikely to cause a problem. The first knew a person who used one for some time before passing away recently and she had 35 feet of tubing attached to the unit so she could go most places in her home without dragging the unit around. Without doing the calculations, seems to me that the resistance of thirty five feet of quarter inch tubing is greater than a few inches of water head (not to mention the tubing getting crimped and stopping the flow of oxygen- which would surely do the damage you suggest if you are right).
Anyway, my guess is that you know about as much about things mechanical as you do about your confessed limited knowledge of math, and so my hope is that your reply was mostly to blow off steam from all that pressure that you said was building from participating in this thread.
So here's another idea on making oxygenated water using an oxygen generator (concentrator). Adapt the bottle that the oxygen bubbles through to humidity it so that instead of replacing the bottle when it gets low, a tube runs to it from a gallon of distilled water in your refrigerator or some other cold place. Then run a tube out of it with a pinch valve at the end to fill your glass whenever you want a drink of water. Such water should contain as much oxygen as Penta Water does if it's had oxygen bubbling through it for a reasonable time.
Hmmm, if you're concerned about destroying the unit by causing too much back pressure, just empty the humidity water bottle entirely and stick the tube in your water glass for a while. That way there will be no more pressure at all for the air pump to work against.
But that presumes that you still find oxygenated water helpful and not merely a placebo effect. Don't ya know you'd have a bonified Millenium Water Cooler (sans the flash and the price) right in your own home!
quote: David, I'd love to. You're in Ohio right? I'll plan a nice bike trip when the weather gets warmer. Haven't been to Ohio in years.
Hey Oldiesman, I hope that's a motorcycle you have instead of a bicycle, although I'd be mighty impressed if you crossed Pennsylvania on a bicycle just for a gallon of Pneuma Water! I'd make a case of it for you to take back (6 gallons) if you like, which would be no problem on a motorcycle but might be a strain on a bicycle!
I don't "do" deception! I like the water...I still use the water and I know, in my case it's not placebo. Here's how I know:
I am scheduled for a full physical next week. In preparation for that, I have a battery of tests done. Two of them are in the Pulmonary Lab at the hospital. The technitian knows I hate the ABG's (Arterial Blood Gas) because sometimes the needle is quite painful - so she does this first! THEN the PFT (Pulmnary Function Test).
When she ran the ABG she said something was definitey wrong because it was out of line with all the others, and if she let that one slide into the system, the insurance company would take me off oxygen! So, she ran the PFT. That takes about 40 minutes and I find it quite exhausting.
By this time, when she did the ABG again, it was in line with the others. (BTW - I'm very pleased that there has been no decrease in function over the past 8 months)
#2 My email was turned off
I went to visit my daughter for 26 days. I can post from the web, and read my email from the web, but unless I turned it off my email box would have a Gig or so of spam in it....so I turned it off for the month. You have't heard from me regarding the corny keg because since I spent so much money at my daughter's, I have to wait for my next check to be deposited before I can do much of anything!
#3. The backpressure IS an issue
I did hold my finger over the hose and the alarm sounded. It is a shrill alarm that would wake the dead! I'm sure your engineers' calculations are correct, but I can't figure out a way to turn off the alarm, and considering how I can't stand the shrillness (hurts eardrum), I'll have to use another method or continue to purchase Penta Water.
#4 I still think that attitude sucks.
If you'd said that in the Political Forums, I would have no problem with it. That's what's expected over there. But here, in the open forum we are generally more polite than that...at least I like to think so.
I've stood up for you here on this thread and in a few private topics. I'd like you to stay around. I think you could add a whole lot to several forums here...but that's only my opinion.
#5 You need a thicker skin
The "naysayers" here have lots to say in lots of places. You should see what some of them are doing to HCW on the LEAD thread in "About the Way". Lindaz and a few others manage to keep them in check most times...but I don't have the ability to use words like she does so I usually just wait it out.
quote:So here's another idea on making oxygenated water using an oxygen generator (concentrator). Adapt the bottle that the oxygen bubbles through to humidity it so that instead of replacing the bottle when it gets low, a tube runs to it from a gallon of distilled water in your refrigerator or some other cold place. Then run a tube out of it with a pinch valve at the end to fill your glass whenever you want a drink of water. Such water should contain as much oxygen as Penta Water does if it's had oxygen bubbling through it for a reasonable time.
Oh, really?
From Penta's own website(again, emphasis mine):
quote:After Penta water has completed this 13-step purification process, 60-70 ppm of USP medicinal grade oxygen is added to each bottle before it’s capped and packaged. This acts as a buffer against the plastic to preserve the clean, crisp taste of Penta water.
Since pressure is the damaging factor to the generator, the back pressure cannot be very great, let's assume a maximum of 15% over ambient. (No more than 17 psia or about 870 torr.)
At normal atmospheric pressure and temperature, (760 torr/20 degrees Celsius) you can only dissolve about 9mg of oxygen into each liter of water. That's 9 ppm, well short of Penta's claimed 60-70.
David is correct that more oxygen can be dissolved in water at colder temperatures, so at normal pressure, but a temp of 4 degrees Celsius (38F, about your common fridge temp, more or less)the solubility only goes up to about 13 ppm. Which, as anyone who graduated the second grade knows is less than 60 ppm by a fair margin.
More oxygen can be dissolved if the atmospheric pressure is higher too, so let's give it the full benefit of the doubt and jack up the pressure to 17 psi/870 torr and lower the temp to 1 degree Celsius (don't want it in any danger of freezing, of course). The result? A maximum dissolved oxygen content of only 16 ppm. If you have a lab-grade super fridge that can keep the temp at precisely 0.01 Celsius, you can almost stretch that to 17 ppm. Almost.
As soon as the water warms up to body temperature, though, (37 degrees Celsius/98.6F) water can only hold a little less than 7 ppm of dissolved oxygen. All that excess dissolved oxygen comes back out of the water and has to go somewhere, and so it does--right back up your esophagus with a burp.
Or, the laws of chemistry could just be another Secret FEDGOV™ Plot to spread misinformation about the Oxygen Gospel According to David. Sneaky bastards, those FEDGOV™ provocateurs...
And on we go into ... The Twilight Zone! (brought to you by Penta Water) ;)-->
quote: Fact is that I don't wish my enemies well- I hope they fail completely! I know the scripture says we're to love our enemies, but that presumes that we first recognize that we have enemies and who they are.
Gadzooks, Zix! The man is onto us!!! We have now descended into the status of ... enemy (insert music from an opening episode of Perry Mason here) :o-->
quote: I know the scripture says we're to love our enemies, but that presumes that we first recognize that we have enemies and who they are.
But, but, Bible Dave, even after you have determined that Osama bin--err, Zixar and I (and others) are your enemies, you still wish ill upon us. --> So please, with your oxygenated and engineering mind put to biblical interpretation, could you please explain this 'apparent contradiction'? ..... Or you gonna pull a 'Smikeol' on us and dodge the question by denying any such contradictions?
Oxygenated water helps people who want to maintain their bodies to be a better instrument.
It works.
Terill Owens was able to play in the Superbowl because of oxygen therapy, gainsayers notwithstanding.
from Dave A:
quote:...Terill Owens, the heart and soul of the Philidelphia Eagles. He smashed his ankle in a game the first part of December and the next day all the sports networks were reporting that he told his teammates he was going to do everything he could do to heal up as fast as possible and to that end he'd installed a hyperbaric chamber (one of the portable ones- they cost about $20,000) in his living room.
The doctors said the broken bones wouldn't heal up in time for the playoffs or the superbowl, but there he was, on the field and playing like he'd never had a problem.
He caught a number of passes and although the Eagles didn't win, they would have lost by more if he hadn't been ready to play.
I didn't see the extent of the injuries but rather think it was like my smashed wrist as it was reported that there were a number of pins and screws in it.
Quite a feat to not only heal the borken bones in seven weeks but also get all the muscles back in shape and be ready to play in that time.
Actually, a hyperbaric chamber is like a corny keg- except that instead of putting water into a corny keg and pressurizing it with oxygen and then drinking the water, the whole body goes into a hyperbaric chamber and gets pressurized to get more oxygen into the water fraction of the body.
The end result is the same, the water in the body gets more oxygen in it. However, a person would be killed if a hyperbaric chamber was operated at 60 psi, but the corny keg and the
quote: At normal atmospheric pressure and temperature, (760 torr/20 degrees Celsius) you can only dissolve about 9mg of oxygen into each liter of water. That's 9 ppm, well short of Penta's claimed 60-70.
Hey Osama, looks like you're actually thinking about this stuff. But maybe you should look up Henry's Law to add to your store of knowledge. He's not quite as popular as Newton, but his law is a law nevertheless. So you're right that at room temperature (20 C, 68 F) in an air atmosphere, the equalibrium solubility of oxygen in water is 9 ppm. But the partial pressure of the oxygen in the water will only be 21% of 760 torr (= 159.6 torr). And I'll leave it to you to address the matter of equalibrium and how long it takes to establish it.
Now if the water is in an oxygen atmosphere rather than air, the solubility becomes 100/21 X 9 ppm = 42.9 ppm- which is about what I measured Penta Water to be. And it's partial pressure will equal the total pressure of 760 torr. (well, close to it anyway. One still has to contend with the vapor pressure of water at that temperature, and so the oxygen partial pressure is slightly less than 760 mm Hg- or torr to you Europeans/arabs.)
I don't know a thing about the buffering action of oxygen on plastic and haven't investigated shelf life issues as it pertains to the oxygen concentration of Penta Water. I rather doubt that they add oxygen to each bottle of water seperately, but it could be. Seems to me that would be a far greater quality control issue for them to monitor.
I do know that I've never burped from drinking oxygen saturated water, even slightly supersaturated water. Seems that enough cells in the mouth, esophagus and stomach are screaming for the oxygen that there is never enough to go around, let alone get rid of by burping. But do let me know if you ever do drink a glass of it. There's nothing like experience to blow away the smoke and .....
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
72
106
68
48
Popular Days
Jan 29
30
Apr 26
21
Jan 18
17
Feb 9
16
Top Posters In This Topic
Raf 72 posts
David Anderson 106 posts
krys 68 posts
oldiesman 48 posts
Popular Days
Jan 29 2005
30 posts
Apr 26 2005
21 posts
Jan 18 2005
17 posts
Feb 9 2005
16 posts
krys
Well - - that attitude sucks!
BTW - if any of you have an "oxygen generator" aka oxygen concentrator - don't hook it up like that because the back pressure will render your machine useless PDQ!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Zixar
Krys: Don't bother. This loony is about 90 degrees out of phase with reality.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GarthP2000
Dr. David is offering free whoopie?!
... Nahh. I would rather prefer Dr. Ruth.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
peahead
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
welcome peahead
:)-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
peahead
Thank you oldiesman.
I feel welcome now.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
George Aar
"Put a little extra oxygen in some holy water, stir until you can see the face of Jesus and you have the answer to long life and health."
No, no, no. Everybody knows you can only see the face of Jesus in a tortilla, well, sometimes in a grilled chees sandwich, but you really have to be believing.
O.K., after that, I think I'll be leaving...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
It was Mary in the cheese sandwich, but we'll forgive your unbelieving self...
:)-->
And peahead, how do you take your coffee?
(Elapsed time.....)
Okay, since you're not answering:
Edited by RafLink to comment
Share on other sites
krys
I hope you have instant, Raf...looks like it was a drive-by.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Ok Raf I just gotta know.
:)-->Was that instant cup of coffee to go that you made for peahead made with oxygen saturated water?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
David Anderson
Krys, sorry it was you that took the bait off my little hook. Guess I should have figured from your suggestion early on that the thread be shut down and made a private topic because nobody would be interested in discussing oxygenated water.
But that was before you tried some and found it helped- unless that was merely deception as well. Why you even emailed me and wanted a corny keg. But, alas, when I replied saying I'd be happy to send you an extra one I had and all I needed was an address to send it to, why my email was sent back to me as undeliverable. I even posted on the private topic you started that there was a problem with your email address, but alas I've heard nothing back from you since and so my generous offer is now withdrawn.
Fact is that I don't wish my enemies well- I hope they fail completely! I know the scripture says we're to love our enemies, but that presumes that we first recognize that we have enemies and who they are. I rather hope that Osama Bin Ladan gets caught, and punished if it's proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he was behind the 9/11 distruction. Don't know that I have the capacity to love him because he's no more to me than pictures in the newspaper, not someone that is a known enemy to me personally. Hell, he could be using the name Zixar on this thread for all I know.
As for your warning about oxygen generators (or concentrators as the case might be), I doubt that any of them are designed so closely that you'll burn out a motor if you put your finger over the delivery tube and stop the flow of oxygen. I suppose it could happen if you did so long enough, but i rather doubt it even then. I do know that they are used for the portable hyperbaric chambers (up to 6 psi) being widely used outside the medical profession these days, and although they are higher volume generators than the ones commonly used for those who are on oxygen in the home, I don't think the air pumps are substantially different in design or efficiency.
I did talk to two friends yesterday about the matter and both agreed that using the generator to make oxygenated water was unlikely to cause a problem. The first knew a person who used one for some time before passing away recently and she had 35 feet of tubing attached to the unit so she could go most places in her home without dragging the unit around. Without doing the calculations, seems to me that the resistance of thirty five feet of quarter inch tubing is greater than a few inches of water head (not to mention the tubing getting crimped and stopping the flow of oxygen- which would surely do the damage you suggest if you are right).
Anyway, my guess is that you know about as much about things mechanical as you do about your confessed limited knowledge of math, and so my hope is that your reply was mostly to blow off steam from all that pressure that you said was building from participating in this thread.
So here's another idea on making oxygenated water using an oxygen generator (concentrator). Adapt the bottle that the oxygen bubbles through to humidity it so that instead of replacing the bottle when it gets low, a tube runs to it from a gallon of distilled water in your refrigerator or some other cold place. Then run a tube out of it with a pinch valve at the end to fill your glass whenever you want a drink of water. Such water should contain as much oxygen as Penta Water does if it's had oxygen bubbling through it for a reasonable time.
Hmmm, if you're concerned about destroying the unit by causing too much back pressure, just empty the humidity water bottle entirely and stick the tube in your water glass for a while. That way there will be no more pressure at all for the air pump to work against.
But that presumes that you still find oxygenated water helpful and not merely a placebo effect. Don't ya know you'd have a bonified Millenium Water Cooler (sans the flash and the price) right in your own home!
Best wishes to you,
Dave (aka McGiever Jr.)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
David Anderson
Hey Oldiesman, I hope that's a motorcycle you have instead of a bicycle, although I'd be mighty impressed if you crossed Pennsylvania on a bicycle just for a gallon of Pneuma Water! I'd make a case of it for you to take back (6 gallons) if you like, which would be no problem on a motorcycle but might be a strain on a bicycle!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Definitely a motorcycle! That sounds great David, thanks.
:)-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
krys
#1 There was no deception
I don't "do" deception! I like the water...I still use the water and I know, in my case it's not placebo. Here's how I know:
I am scheduled for a full physical next week. In preparation for that, I have a battery of tests done. Two of them are in the Pulmonary Lab at the hospital. The technitian knows I hate the ABG's (Arterial Blood Gas) because sometimes the needle is quite painful - so she does this first! THEN the PFT (Pulmnary Function Test).
When she ran the ABG she said something was definitey wrong because it was out of line with all the others, and if she let that one slide into the system, the insurance company would take me off oxygen! So, she ran the PFT. That takes about 40 minutes and I find it quite exhausting.
By this time, when she did the ABG again, it was in line with the others. (BTW - I'm very pleased that there has been no decrease in function over the past 8 months)
#2 My email was turned off
I went to visit my daughter for 26 days. I can post from the web, and read my email from the web, but unless I turned it off my email box would have a Gig or so of spam in it....so I turned it off for the month. You have't heard from me regarding the corny keg because since I spent so much money at my daughter's, I have to wait for my next check to be deposited before I can do much of anything!
#3. The backpressure IS an issue
I did hold my finger over the hose and the alarm sounded. It is a shrill alarm that would wake the dead! I'm sure your engineers' calculations are correct, but I can't figure out a way to turn off the alarm, and considering how I can't stand the shrillness (hurts eardrum), I'll have to use another method or continue to purchase Penta Water.
#4 I still think that attitude sucks.
If you'd said that in the Political Forums, I would have no problem with it. That's what's expected over there. But here, in the open forum we are generally more polite than that...at least I like to think so.
I've stood up for you here on this thread and in a few private topics. I'd like you to stay around. I think you could add a whole lot to several forums here...but that's only my opinion.
#5 You need a thicker skin
The "naysayers" here have lots to say in lots of places. You should see what some of them are doing to HCW on the LEAD thread in "About the Way". Lindaz and a few others manage to keep them in check most times...but I don't have the ability to use words like she does so I usually just wait it out.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
kry check you pt please
:)-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
krys
oldies - you'll have to open a new one! I deleted most of mine yesterday.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
ok Kry, just opened a new one.
:)-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Zixar
This just keeps getting funnier.
David claimed(emphasis mine):
Oh, really?
From Penta's own website(again, emphasis mine):
Source: http://www.pentawater.com/process.shtml
Since pressure is the damaging factor to the generator, the back pressure cannot be very great, let's assume a maximum of 15% over ambient. (No more than 17 psia or about 870 torr.)
At normal atmospheric pressure and temperature, (760 torr/20 degrees Celsius) you can only dissolve about 9mg of oxygen into each liter of water. That's 9 ppm, well short of Penta's claimed 60-70.
David is correct that more oxygen can be dissolved in water at colder temperatures, so at normal pressure, but a temp of 4 degrees Celsius (38F, about your common fridge temp, more or less)the solubility only goes up to about 13 ppm. Which, as anyone who graduated the second grade knows is less than 60 ppm by a fair margin.
More oxygen can be dissolved if the atmospheric pressure is higher too, so let's give it the full benefit of the doubt and jack up the pressure to 17 psi/870 torr and lower the temp to 1 degree Celsius (don't want it in any danger of freezing, of course). The result? A maximum dissolved oxygen content of only 16 ppm. If you have a lab-grade super fridge that can keep the temp at precisely 0.01 Celsius, you can almost stretch that to 17 ppm. Almost.
(Source: Dissolved oxygen calculator on General Chemistry Online http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/1...icting-DO.shtml )
As soon as the water warms up to body temperature, though, (37 degrees Celsius/98.6F) water can only hold a little less than 7 ppm of dissolved oxygen. All that excess dissolved oxygen comes back out of the water and has to go somewhere, and so it does--right back up your esophagus with a burp.
Or, the laws of chemistry could just be another Secret FEDGOV™ Plot to spread misinformation about the Oxygen Gospel According to David. Sneaky bastards, those FEDGOV™ provocateurs...
Regards,
Osama bin Zixar
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GarthP2000
And on we go into ... The Twilight Zone! (brought to you by Penta Water)
;)-->
Gadzooks, Zix! The man is onto us!!!
We have now descended into the status of ... enemy (insert music from an opening episode of Perry Mason here) 
:o--> 
But, but, Bible Dave, even after you have determined that Osama bin--err, Zixar and I (and others) are your enemies, you still wish ill upon us.
--> So please, with your oxygenated and engineering mind put to biblical interpretation, could you please explain this 'apparent contradiction'? ..... Or you gonna pull a 'Smikeol' on us and dodge the question by denying any such contradictions?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
Enemies? What is this? Enemies?
You are taking yourself WAY too seriously, Penta Man.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Kit Sober
Oxygenated water helps people who want to maintain their bodies to be a better instrument.
It works.
Terill Owens was able to play in the Superbowl because of oxygen therapy, gainsayers notwithstanding.
from Dave A:
hopefully, still,Link to comment
Share on other sites
David Anderson
Hey Osama, looks like you're actually thinking about this stuff. But maybe you should look up Henry's Law to add to your store of knowledge. He's not quite as popular as Newton, but his law is a law nevertheless. So you're right that at room temperature (20 C, 68 F) in an air atmosphere, the equalibrium solubility of oxygen in water is 9 ppm. But the partial pressure of the oxygen in the water will only be 21% of 760 torr (= 159.6 torr). And I'll leave it to you to address the matter of equalibrium and how long it takes to establish it.
Now if the water is in an oxygen atmosphere rather than air, the solubility becomes 100/21 X 9 ppm = 42.9 ppm- which is about what I measured Penta Water to be. And it's partial pressure will equal the total pressure of 760 torr. (well, close to it anyway. One still has to contend with the vapor pressure of water at that temperature, and so the oxygen partial pressure is slightly less than 760 mm Hg- or torr to you Europeans/arabs.)
I don't know a thing about the buffering action of oxygen on plastic and haven't investigated shelf life issues as it pertains to the oxygen concentration of Penta Water. I rather doubt that they add oxygen to each bottle of water seperately, but it could be. Seems to me that would be a far greater quality control issue for them to monitor.
I do know that I've never burped from drinking oxygen saturated water, even slightly supersaturated water. Seems that enough cells in the mouth, esophagus and stomach are screaming for the oxygen that there is never enough to go around, let alone get rid of by burping. But do let me know if you ever do drink a glass of it. There's nothing like experience to blow away the smoke and .....
Henry's Law, Osama, Henry's Law.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheEvan
After slugging a glass of even tap water I nearly always burp. You're quite the freak of nature, David.
Smoke? Methinks you're smoking rope.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.