it is about adminstrations which is the word twi used..
After the resurrection the rules changed and the mystery was revealed Jew and gentile can now have eternal life.. before that it was by the blood line and works to know "God". the old testiment believers will face Christ at the BEMA and chose him to be Lord and KIng at that time they will have the choice face to face remember they believed in the coming messiah their entire life although he was not yet born.
the bible states before God formed the earth we were called to Him so God knows who is called to believe on His son Jesus Christ but each individual must make the choice to answer it or not. even old testiment believers will have a place in the kingdom that Christ reigns as King in with us / then at last Jesus will hand all of us over to God.
Mary was a chosen sevant of God and a jew , she was beloved of God as all of His children .
Why would we "come" to mary? no one worshiped Mary while she lived on earth, she lived the life of a good jewish woman who God chose to be the mother of Jesus because of her faith in Him .
See what I get for trying to use a liar's words? Thanks, WW, for correcting me...both on that little "story" and on the spelling of the town. ;)-->
My point is now missed...sigh...but what I was trying to say is that no man knows how the spirit works in another's life...and trying to pin it down only divides.
it doesnt have to be endless strife it really doesnt.
a friend of mine went to catholic high school and was a strict catholic I had him take pfal and today he is ordained in twi...
well over two decades we have talked his entire idea about God and his mission has been to refute the trinity . nothing more .
I made him this . I am ashamed. ya know once we were young kids thinking God is the answer to life and prayer will help each of us get through the complexes of life and ya know we thought good things about people .
it turned into a military war stance of doctrine for him.
I know this man he only wants to help people and love people yet this is ahold of his mind and he can not and will not let it go for anything now.
God is bigger , He made a donkey talk to get his point across to His people !
that debate can take over your spirtiual life only if you allow it to be the focus . Another CHOICE is what our Saviour tells us to be our focus which is to love the Lord God with our whole heart and one another.
That stuff about your friend, I am so sorry. I really am.
I never understood the point about decimating the trinity. Sure they came up with it during the Nicene Creed and Apostles Creed. ( Danny any thoughts, your terrific with history.) Regardless it wasnt anything that impacted a believers life, wether he believed it or not.
It was also the main doctrine, (with a few others that would have) that catapulted The Way into Cult status. It's just it wasnt even necessary to bring it up at all. If it aint broken why fix it.
The other thing about the trinity is this, its just a diagram giving honor, whats so horrible about that? In addition it looks Biblically correct to me. It was like they just couldnt live unless they ruined everyone else's party, and made them feel like snot. Then they'd have to join the organization to get it all right.
(I've posted this before, and I'll post it again. -->)
Both the Trinitarians and the Unitarians have been making "the other side has finally met its match!" and "This means the difference between life and death!" claims back and forth for, ohh, the past 1600 years.
VPW joined in with his "Aha!!" claim when he came out with his "Jesus Christ is not God!" book too.
And so it continues, this silly theological 'war' that so many deem to be so important, ... but isn't.
... with the exception that the only important thing about this was the lives that were lost and ruined due to this stupid argument.
..... Ahhh, yes! Such a spiritual *deliverance* --- NOT!:P-->
So also is the ressurection of the dead. It is sown in corruption;it is raised in incorruption.
It is sown in dishonour;it is raised in glory:it is sown in weekness;it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a SPIRITUAL BODY. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul;the last Adam was made a QUICKENING SPIRIT.
ICOR15;42-45
I think this is saying that Jesus is a spirit now...God is a spirit too, but ...It has Form!!!
WOW!!!a spirit is a body? and it's in The Bible. Go Figure.
The bible clearly states a commandment of you shall have no other God before me and clearly describes a God that desires worship solely to Him and HIm only and all others will be punished and die.
the issue is deeper than paper it is idiol worship. As in the RC statues that folks pray to for various needs and ills etc. the fact is it appears to be worshiping a different God for their life and wants and needs. and praise is given to theses saints (appointed such title by the pope (a man))their powers and abilities to be greater than human. that describes a God to me.
to worship idols is very serious in the bible and has destroyed many kingdoms and rules and people.
As a person who puts equal worship and ability to the Risen christ in Jesus do you worship an idol ? do you put another in the position God almighty Claims to only HIS? do you compromise the creator of the universe in power to save to the uttermost the ends of the earth with a man he created for our well being and eternal life.
What and how does Jesus christ describe His God the father? Certainly Jesus christ worshiped God as a man and called Him his Father and prayed for deliverence several times in his life as did his parents and followers.. He knew he was helpless to save His own life..
the issue is one of chosing to worship another God and making a idol . these choices bring death to those who chose to practice them or even believe them in their heart. no other God is a clear statement of what God demands from his children, he never says except one named Jesus christ who I also created.
it is serious and something to consider if you truly want to obey God and His decrees.
I have it on good authority that this debate will NOT go on forever. It will be ended when we appear before the throne. Because the issue will be settled? Perhaps, but no mention of THAT in the Bible. The mention is of giving account of what we do & don't do. Agreed?
I chose to not consider Jesus christ God, and believe me it has little to do with what I may have learned from twi, because I never really got into the debate after I changed my friends mind.
it just doesnt make sense to me, I was born a babptist and I never have had any teaching other than Jesus being the only begotten son of God.
If I am wrong I am and I will learn different , then or now Im think Im willing to learn but so far the trinity has never made any sense to me and I think idolitry is a dangerous thing to consider when thinking about the facts the way I read them.
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mj412
coolwaters
it is about adminstrations which is the word twi used..
After the resurrection the rules changed and the mystery was revealed Jew and gentile can now have eternal life.. before that it was by the blood line and works to know "God". the old testiment believers will face Christ at the BEMA and chose him to be Lord and KIng at that time they will have the choice face to face remember they believed in the coming messiah their entire life although he was not yet born.
the bible states before God formed the earth we were called to Him so God knows who is called to believe on His son Jesus Christ but each individual must make the choice to answer it or not. even old testiment believers will have a place in the kingdom that Christ reigns as King in with us / then at last Jesus will hand all of us over to God.
Mary was a chosen sevant of God and a jew , she was beloved of God as all of His children .
Why would we "come" to mary? no one worshiped Mary while she lived on earth, she lived the life of a good jewish woman who God chose to be the mother of Jesus because of her faith in Him .
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WordWolf
I think everyone's saying it better than me,
so I won't address that.
(Nor will I insist my viewpoint is the only one. We've all had
enough of that.)
Quick sidenote, Coolwaters...
I've gone over the details of the supposed Jubbulpore incident and
concluded it was entirely manufactured, and never happened except
in the words of the man who said it happened. Let me know if you
need the breakdown-I'm sure you can do it yourself. We also
discussed it here somewhere and I broke it down already.
(Maybe a search under "Jubbulpore"?)
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CoolWaters
See what I get for trying to use a liar's words? Thanks, WW, for correcting me...both on that little "story" and on the spelling of the town.
;)-->
My point is now missed...sigh...but what I was trying to say is that no man knows how the spirit works in another's life...and trying to pin it down only divides.
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Jeff USAF RET
I think this website is by far the best one I know about in the Trinitarian or Non-Trinitarian debate.
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/html/
But then again, I helped build it!
Here is a very cool article.
Trinitarian or Unitarian
Does it really matter?
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/html/modu...article&sid=111
Yes.....!!!
Enjoy!
Jeff
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CoolWaters
The endless strife such things cause. What a huge stumbling block...sigh...
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mj412
CoolWater.
it doesnt have to be endless strife it really doesnt.
a friend of mine went to catholic high school and was a strict catholic I had him take pfal and today he is ordained in twi...
well over two decades we have talked his entire idea about God and his mission has been to refute the trinity . nothing more .
I made him this . I am ashamed. ya know once we were young kids thinking God is the answer to life and prayer will help each of us get through the complexes of life and ya know we thought good things about people .
it turned into a military war stance of doctrine for him.
I know this man he only wants to help people and love people yet this is ahold of his mind and he can not and will not let it go for anything now.
God is bigger , He made a donkey talk to get his point across to His people !
that debate can take over your spirtiual life only if you allow it to be the focus . Another CHOICE is what our Saviour tells us to be our focus which is to love the Lord God with our whole heart and one another.
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sky4it
MJ412:
That stuff about your friend, I am so sorry. I really am.
I never understood the point about decimating the trinity. Sure they came up with it during the Nicene Creed and Apostles Creed. ( Danny any thoughts, your terrific with history.) Regardless it wasnt anything that impacted a believers life, wether he believed it or not.
It was also the main doctrine, (with a few others that would have) that catapulted The Way into Cult status. It's just it wasnt even necessary to bring it up at all. If it aint broken why fix it.
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sky4it
The other thing about the trinity is this. Its a diagram for crying out loud. Its harmless and
looks biblically correct.
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sky4it
The other thing about the trinity is this, its just a diagram giving honor, whats so horrible about that? In addition it looks Biblically correct to me. It was like they just couldnt live unless they ruined everyone else's party, and made them feel like snot. Then they'd have to join the organization to get it all right.
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GarthP2000
Jeff,
(I've posted this before, and I'll post it again.
-->)
Both the Trinitarians and the Unitarians have been making "the other side has finally met its match!" and "This means the difference between life and death!" claims back and forth for, ohh, the past 1600 years.
VPW joined in with his "Aha!!" claim when he came out with his "Jesus Christ is not God!" book too.
And so it continues, this silly theological 'war' that so many deem to be so important, ... but isn't.
... with the exception that the only important thing about this was the lives that were lost and ruined due to this stupid argument.
..... Ahhh, yes! Such a spiritual *deliverance* --- NOT!
:P-->
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Rachel
So also is the ressurection of the dead. It is sown in corruption;it is raised in incorruption.
It is sown in dishonour;it is raised in glory:it is sown in weekness;it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a SPIRITUAL BODY. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul;the last Adam was made a QUICKENING SPIRIT.
ICOR15;42-45
I think this is saying that Jesus is a spirit now...God is a spirit too, but ...It has Form!!!
WOW!!!a spirit is a body? and it's in The Bible. Go Figure.
Rachel
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def59
Unfortunately the tri-uni debate is going to last for eternity. To those outside the fold, it looks pretty silly — as do all things Christian.
To the inside, it is a matter of life and faith. For the very foundation of our faith is at stake.
And the doctrine appeared earlier than the creeds, they just codified it.
Christianity Today's web site has a section on history and offers some good facts.
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Jeff USAF RET
Here is a link to "One Hundred Scriptural Arguments for the Unitarian Faith" from the American Unitarian Association.
The exact date of this document is not known, but it was written around the middle of the 1800's.
http://biblicalunitarian.com/html/modules....order=2&thold=0
Enjoy!
Jeff
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mj412
The bible clearly states a commandment of you shall have no other God before me and clearly describes a God that desires worship solely to Him and HIm only and all others will be punished and die.
the issue is deeper than paper it is idiol worship. As in the RC statues that folks pray to for various needs and ills etc. the fact is it appears to be worshiping a different God for their life and wants and needs. and praise is given to theses saints (appointed such title by the pope (a man))their powers and abilities to be greater than human. that describes a God to me.
to worship idols is very serious in the bible and has destroyed many kingdoms and rules and people.
As a person who puts equal worship and ability to the Risen christ in Jesus do you worship an idol ? do you put another in the position God almighty Claims to only HIS? do you compromise the creator of the universe in power to save to the uttermost the ends of the earth with a man he created for our well being and eternal life.
What and how does Jesus christ describe His God the father? Certainly Jesus christ worshiped God as a man and called Him his Father and prayed for deliverence several times in his life as did his parents and followers.. He knew he was helpless to save His own life..
the issue is one of chosing to worship another God and making a idol . these choices bring death to those who chose to practice them or even believe them in their heart. no other God is a clear statement of what God demands from his children, he never says except one named Jesus christ who I also created.
it is serious and something to consider if you truly want to obey God and His decrees.
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TheEvan
I have it on good authority that this debate will NOT go on forever. It will be ended when we appear before the throne. Because the issue will be settled? Perhaps, but no mention of THAT in the Bible. The mention is of giving account of what we do & don't do. Agreed?
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mj412
I thank God it can not be settled by me.
I chose to not consider Jesus christ God, and believe me it has little to do with what I may have learned from twi, because I never really got into the debate after I changed my friends mind.
it just doesnt make sense to me, I was born a babptist and I never have had any teaching other than Jesus being the only begotten son of God.
If I am wrong I am and I will learn different , then or now Im think Im willing to learn but so far the trinity has never made any sense to me and I think idolitry is a dangerous thing to consider when thinking about the facts the way I read them.
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