I don't go to many movies, and I like few of them. I went to this one with two friends who were in town to see it and it surprised me I more than liked it and it was very well done. I'll second what Pirate said right down the line-it is an amazing movie, Johnny Depp should get an award for this and perhaps Kate Winslet a well and interestingly told story and yes a few tear jerker moments
I had heard a reference that James Barrie was a child abuser, but didn't know anything about it. So I spent some time on the internet and quickly came across this site:
Barrie's attraction to boys has been documented in several biographies and books: Andrew Birkin's J.M. Barrie and the Lost Boys, Fraser Morris's The Death Of Narcissus, and Humphrey Carpenter's Secret Gardens: A Study of the Golden Age of Children's Literature. Barrie took photographs of nude boys, and some of them appear in Birkin's biography. In fact, Carpenter's biography describes erotic desire as the driving force behind the flowering of English children's literature during the time of Barrie.
------------------------------------
Since I haven't read any of these biographies I don't know if he actually sexually molested any child. But taking nude photographs is not exactly "okay". Clearly certain behaviors we now identify as damaging to our children were pretty much ignored back then. After all, the old German approach to children was that they were to be treated like small adults, and dealt with as the parents saw fit. Period.
This movie, to me, is another case of Hollywood glorifying someone who really should not be glorified. It's a darned shame.
I haven't seen it yet... but I will say this... Johnny Depp is one of the greatest living actors we have today... check out "What's Eating Gilbert Grape" for some of his early work... and look at the emotion he invokes as Edward Scissorhands... regardless of the material, he usually does a brilliant job with it...
I had heard a reference that James Barrie was a child abuser, but didn't know anything about it. So I spent some time on the internet and quickly came across this site:
[www, etc.]
which appears to be a man-love-boy site.
Anyone who clicks on that link may well end
up on some FBI watch list.
Couldn't you locate a more respectable source outside of one actually wanting nothing more than all these allegations concerning Barrie to be true?
[re-edited to tone down earlier, more emphatic reaction, to say the least.]
Dan, you assume an awful lot... I didn't get to read your original post so I have no idea what you actually said that needed toning down, but I didn't "want" to find anything but the truth... if I've stumbled across a lie, then I posted it in innocence. My apologies.
As to the site the information is listed on, yes, I agree, its possible they twisted the info to suit their own interests. Or perhaps, they are the only ones honest enough to admit the truth? I really don't know. Do you know for sure? My interest was to give folks a heads-up. Again, if I did so with the wrong information, I heartily apologize.
Oh, by the way, this quote is from the PBS.org website:
Barrie's boy-love disturbs the modern reader in ways that the vast majority of Edwardians would not have even had the language to articulate. Instead, a huge Edwardian audience loved Peter Pan for its celebration of the triumphs of joyful youth. (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/railwa...barrie_bio.html)
And if you read this bio, you can clearly see a disturbed person who came from an upsetting upbringing, and clearly had a negative impact on those around him. http://barrie.thefreelibrary.com/
I thought there was a possibility that the original link you provided was done so out of complete innocence on your part. The new links you provided are much preferable. Thank you.
Perhaps I was being a bit paranoid when clicking on that first link, but when I explored that site a page further, I didn't stick around to click around. One can't be too careful on the internet nowadays.
In any event, my issue was with the first site you cited - not with you. Thanks again for the new links.
A look at what Andrew Birkin, author of "J.M. Barrie and the Lost Boys" has to say on the subject:
"Newsweek" magazine
quote:
The only remaining hurdle "Neverland" needs to clear is the suspicion that the real-life Barrie may have been a pedophile. Andrew Birkin, author of the biography "J. M. Barrie and the Lost Boys," insists the rumor is absolutely false, a conclusion he reached after reading decades' worth of Barrie's correspondence and interviewing Nico Llewelyn Davies, one of the boys in the family that inspired this film. "Nico was 100 percent certain that Barrie harbored no lust for man, woman, child or beast," Birkin says from his home in Wales. "Barrie was essentially asexual, clearly impotent. He was a lover of children, yes, but not sexually."
"New York Daily News"
quote:
British biographer Andrew Birkin, author of a definitive study of "Peter Pan" creator J.M. Barrie, is spoiling for a fight over Monday's Page Six item claiming that the long-dead Barrie was a pedophile.
Birkin is particularly incensed that the gossip column cites his authoritative book, "J.M. Barrie and the Lost Boys," as the source of the canard.
And it sounds like Page Six reporter Jared Paul Stern is Birkin's personal Captain Hook - and possibly "deviant" to boot.
"How anyone can read my book and conclude that Barrie 'was disturbingly obsessed with young boys' is beyond me," Birkin raged yesterday in an E-mail from London. "The New York Post goes on to declare that 'as Andrew Birkin revealed in his landmark Barrie bio ... Barrie eroticized children and took nude photos of young males.'"
An outraged Birkin insisted: "At no point in my book did I make any such suggestion." He condemned "the scurrilous innuendo that Barrie" - portrayed by Johnny Depp in the critically admired movie "Finding Neverland" - "was a pedophile, closet or otherwise."
Birkin added: "All of this I told to the New York Post journalist who called me, but presumably what I had to say does not sell newspapers, whereas salacious sex clearly does. Why else would the New York Post distill deviation from my book where there is none ... except, perhaps, in the eye of a deviant beholder?"
"The New York Post goes on to declare that 'as Andrew Birkin revealed in his landmark Barrie bio ... Barrie eroticized children and took nude photos of young males.'"
An outraged Birkin insisted: "At no point in my book did I make any such suggestion."
Thank you Pirate, for the fine evidence against that myth.
Honestly, if there is evidence on both sides of the question of whether Barrie was a pedophile, I admit I am inclined to think, "It's highly possible, given the times in which he lived, and knowing that many, many child-infatuated men are predators." (kinda like my thinking about Michael Jackson... I don't think he definately IS, I just think there is an awful lot of red flags... certainly enough to investigate)
And if even his "authoritative" biographer admits he was "asexual", it still raises some questions. Enough to discuss the matter.
But I find it highly disturbing that people would blatantly manufacture evidence that he was a predator. That certainly points to an agenda on their part, and makes me want to give Barrie the benefit of the doubt. (kinda like the questions being raised about the apparently lawsuit-happy folks who are accusing MJ of molestation)
All I can say is, if I've bought into someone's propaganda machine, I'm sorry everyone. Thanks for the clarification.
Just watched the video. One of the best movies I'd seen this year (another great one was The Notebook). Johnny Depp's acting was wonderful!! I like little Peter's answer when asked if he was really Peter Pan.
I guess I'm a soulless a-hole again. I saw FN last week as an in-flight movie, and despite my desparation to find something entertaining to do, I couldn't get too excited about it.
The movie never seems to even try to answer the obvious question "Why is this guy doing this?" Why would someone desert his own wife to spend all of his time with strangers and eventually adopt the entire remnant of that family?
I could never indentify with Depp's character at all. What the hell was the guy's motivation? Why would somebody act so peculiarly?
I guess if you want to keep the movie in the realm of fantasy, it works. But there really was such a guy and he really did do those things. I just kept wondering why. The whole concept just gave me the creeps. Maybe I ran into one too many perverts with a bag of candy when I was a kid?
I finally got around to seeing the video last night, and I loved it. Johnny Depp is a fabulous actor with incredible range. And the little boy who played Peter (not Peter Pan--the child Peter) was amazing. My heart melted just to look at his little face. The scene with him sitting with Barrie on the park bench toward the end of the film was priceless.
I might even watch it again before I return it to Blockbuster, and I very rarely watch a movie more than once when I've first seen it.
Geo, I think you watched a different movie. Or maybe the drinks cart rattling down the aisle distracted you. I've had those damn carts stop in the aisle and block my view right at the key scene in a movie! :)-->
I think it was obvious that Barrie and his wife (at least in the movie) were a terrible mismatch. She was a social climber who worried about what people thought, and he was a troubled, though kind, man who couldn't have cared less about the social scene or people's opinions. I could clearly see the asexual aspect of the man through this movie.
Now I'm looking forward to seeing Depp in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory! I liked the Gene Wilder version--Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory--years ago when I took my son to see it, but I bet this will be way better!
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reikilady
I plan to. I enjoyed Johnny Depp in "Secret Window" and "The Pirates of the Carribean".
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mstar1
I don't go to many movies, and I like few of them. I went to this one with two friends who were in town to see it and it surprised me I more than liked it and it was very well done. I'll second what Pirate said right down the line-it is an amazing movie, Johnny Depp should get an award for this and perhaps Kate Winslet a well and interestingly told story and yes a few tear jerker moments
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reikilady
This movie came and went really fast here in Lincoln. I will want to see it on DVD if we don't catch it at the $2 movie theatre if it runs there.
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TheHighWay
I had heard a reference that James Barrie was a child abuser, but didn't know anything about it. So I spent some time on the internet and quickly came across this site:
http://www.agetaboo.org/people/barrie.htm
which contains this paragraph...
--------------------------------------------
Barrie's attraction to boys has been documented in several biographies and books: Andrew Birkin's J.M. Barrie and the Lost Boys, Fraser Morris's The Death Of Narcissus, and Humphrey Carpenter's Secret Gardens: A Study of the Golden Age of Children's Literature. Barrie took photographs of nude boys, and some of them appear in Birkin's biography. In fact, Carpenter's biography describes erotic desire as the driving force behind the flowering of English children's literature during the time of Barrie.
------------------------------------
Since I haven't read any of these biographies I don't know if he actually sexually molested any child. But taking nude photographs is not exactly "okay". Clearly certain behaviors we now identify as damaging to our children were pretty much ignored back then. After all, the old German approach to children was that they were to be treated like small adults, and dealt with as the parents saw fit. Period.
This movie, to me, is another case of Hollywood glorifying someone who really should not be glorified. It's a darned shame.
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Tom Strange
I haven't seen it yet... but I will say this... Johnny Depp is one of the greatest living actors we have today... check out "What's Eating Gilbert Grape" for some of his early work... and look at the emotion he invokes as Edward Scissorhands... regardless of the material, he usually does a brilliant job with it...
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TheInvisibleDan
which appears to be a man-love-boy site.
Anyone who clicks on that link may well end
up on some FBI watch list.
Couldn't you locate a more respectable source outside of one actually wanting nothing more than all these allegations concerning Barrie to be true?
[re-edited to tone down earlier, more emphatic reaction, to say the least.]
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TheHighWay
Dan, you assume an awful lot... I didn't get to read your original post so I have no idea what you actually said that needed toning down, but I didn't "want" to find anything but the truth... if I've stumbled across a lie, then I posted it in innocence. My apologies.
As to the site the information is listed on, yes, I agree, its possible they twisted the info to suit their own interests. Or perhaps, they are the only ones honest enough to admit the truth? I really don't know. Do you know for sure? My interest was to give folks a heads-up. Again, if I did so with the wrong information, I heartily apologize.
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TheHighWay
Oh, by the way, this quote is from the PBS.org website:
Barrie's boy-love disturbs the modern reader in ways that the vast majority of Edwardians would not have even had the language to articulate. Instead, a huge Edwardian audience loved Peter Pan for its celebration of the triumphs of joyful youth. (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/railwa...barrie_bio.html)
And if you read this bio, you can clearly see a disturbed person who came from an upsetting upbringing, and clearly had a negative impact on those around him. http://barrie.thefreelibrary.com/
Sorry... just trying to defend myself here.
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TheInvisibleDan
Hi Highway,
I thought there was a possibility that the original link you provided was done so out of complete innocence on your part. The new links you provided are much preferable. Thank you.
Perhaps I was being a bit paranoid when clicking on that first link, but when I explored that site a page further, I didn't stick around to click around. One can't be too careful on the internet nowadays.
In any event, my issue was with the first site you cited - not with you. Thanks again for the new links.
Danny
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Pirate1974
A look at what Andrew Birkin, author of "J.M. Barrie and the Lost Boys" has to say on the subject:
"Newsweek" magazine
"New York Daily News"
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TheInvisibleDan
Thank you Pirate, for the fine evidence against that myth.
Danny
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TheHighWay
Pirate... thank you for your post!!
Honestly, if there is evidence on both sides of the question of whether Barrie was a pedophile, I admit I am inclined to think, "It's highly possible, given the times in which he lived, and knowing that many, many child-infatuated men are predators." (kinda like my thinking about Michael Jackson... I don't think he definately IS, I just think there is an awful lot of red flags... certainly enough to investigate)
And if even his "authoritative" biographer admits he was "asexual", it still raises some questions. Enough to discuss the matter.
But I find it highly disturbing that people would blatantly manufacture evidence that he was a predator. That certainly points to an agenda on their part, and makes me want to give Barrie the benefit of the doubt. (kinda like the questions being raised about the apparently lawsuit-happy folks who are accusing MJ of molestation)
All I can say is, if I've bought into someone's propaganda machine, I'm sorry everyone. Thanks for the clarification.
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reikilady
I Love "Finding Neverland" and didn't want the movie to end. I wish it had gotten best picture instead of "Million Dollar Baby."
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moony3424
Just watched the video. One of the best movies I'd seen this year (another great one was The Notebook). Johnny Depp's acting was wonderful!! I like little Peter's answer when asked if he was really Peter Pan.
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Steve!
Cindy! and I just rented this over the weekend.
I thought it was a really nice movie.
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George Aar
I guess I'm a soulless a-hole again. I saw FN last week as an in-flight movie, and despite my desparation to find something entertaining to do, I couldn't get too excited about it.
The movie never seems to even try to answer the obvious question "Why is this guy doing this?" Why would someone desert his own wife to spend all of his time with strangers and eventually adopt the entire remnant of that family?
I could never indentify with Depp's character at all. What the hell was the guy's motivation? Why would somebody act so peculiarly?
I guess if you want to keep the movie in the realm of fantasy, it works. But there really was such a guy and he really did do those things. I just kept wondering why. The whole concept just gave me the creeps. Maybe I ran into one too many perverts with a bag of candy when I was a kid?
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Steve!
But they *did* hint that his wife lost interest in him, and the movie did show that she was having an affair.
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Trefor Heywood
I came across it as one of the in flight movies on the way back three weeks ago - it was so exciting I fell asleep.
Baden-Powell like photos of nude boys too but there is no evidence that he took advantage.
This film will not be joining my DVD collection.
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Linda Z
I finally got around to seeing the video last night, and I loved it. Johnny Depp is a fabulous actor with incredible range. And the little boy who played Peter (not Peter Pan--the child Peter) was amazing. My heart melted just to look at his little face. The scene with him sitting with Barrie on the park bench toward the end of the film was priceless.
I might even watch it again before I return it to Blockbuster, and I very rarely watch a movie more than once when I've first seen it.
Geo, I think you watched a different movie. Or maybe the drinks cart rattling down the aisle distracted you. I've had those damn carts stop in the aisle and block my view right at the key scene in a movie!
:)-->
I think it was obvious that Barrie and his wife (at least in the movie) were a terrible mismatch. She was a social climber who worried about what people thought, and he was a troubled, though kind, man who couldn't have cared less about the social scene or people's opinions. I could clearly see the asexual aspect of the man through this movie.
Now I'm looking forward to seeing Depp in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory! I liked the Gene Wilder version--Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory--years ago when I took my son to see it, but I bet this will be way better!
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