The Way Rag will continue to be a fancy newsletter rather than a research and teaching ministry tool (remember GMIR) unless somebody with the spirit of God moves. But the BOT stopped that sort of subversive activity along time ago.
TWI is a dangerous place. They tell you what to
believe and how to practice your faith. Something they themselves are not experts at.
It does look like they're making major efforts to eliminate or change the loaded language they've been using, however, advance is till pretty prominently being used and these are still pretty common phrases heard over and over and over and over in TWI II and TWI III:
"made and impact"
"in the world"
"word and deed"
"caused great joy"
"laborers together"
"the body of Christ" (TWI's definition, not God's)
We know they lurk here and I would no doubt believe that they are trying to sound more, errr.... normal based on what they've read from us. The problem with this is that by NOT using loaded language and having their own "catch phrases" it takes some of the power of the cult and manipulation away. It's one less way of making sure everyone "thinks the same thing" and doesn't start thinking for themselves. After all, having your own language and acceptable vocabulary is one of the ways groups like TWI keep people under their thumb.
You made an excellent point. And their closing statement in the "About This Issue" captures the direction, and words like "laborers" "advance" "word and deed" all fit into this year's theme quite well. Where "prevailing" and "victory" are less individualized possibly.
The closing statement:
Let's keep growing and flourishing in our cultivation of spiritual fruit, giving God the glory as we live and speak the truth abundantly!
I'd like to say I'm appalled at the order of the impact according to Harvie, but sadly it's not surprising. They've always had their priorities backwards despite what they try to say they teach and believe. Things like this expose the true nature of the beasts that run that group.
You captured my thoughts on it!
Did they mention how many they "won to God's word"? Does it count if they spoke to someone and it got them to thinking to the point that they returned to church (THEIR church, not TWI)? Does it count if they didn't sign them up for any classes? Does it count if the person didn't give any dough to TWI? I wonder what the ever changing standard is for them.
Why Belle, you know they'd never show their hand like that would they? In fear the few participating may realize how small they really are and question as to why no flourish in numbers anymore. ;)-->
How many WD's does it look like, House? I know that before I left last year it was required for those going into the WC to be WD's and there were quite a few interim who were sent out. It falsely inflated the numbers since those didn't "sign up" to go WD voluntarily.
I concur on the apprentice as well as interim corps being part of these numbers. I subtracted from each group leadership I recognized to come up with a total of 46 (including 2 children).
Also, the fact that they scaled it back to 6 months a few years ago is a testament to the failure of the program. With the ever shrinking membership growing older and with the lack of youngsters, there just aren't that many prospects for WD and the young ones that go have probably been coerced and "guilted" into going by their parents or leadership. There are most likely only one or two people signed up for WD who actually truely want to be there.
Remember when they went to 6 months it actually gendered more interest because it sounded less painful? But today it appears to be more corps related ones in the program.
So many comments..... :)--> Bear with me while I vent, please. OR skip over my posts, I feel better for having gotten it out of my system. :D-->
I would never skip over YOUR posts. Some I do, admittedly but never yours. :)-->
Regarding the articles in TWI.....from what I remember the WC are "assigned" the task of writing an article and I think some are even given the topic they are to cover. D0ttie Moneyhands wrote an article several years ago and talked to us about the grueling process. Apparently she worked on the article for many months and would send it in for Keith Jacks0n to edit. He would give her revisions to make and she would re-send it to him to edit. He would send it back again with more revisions to make and this went on and on. She sounded exasperated with the process when she spoke of it. With that many revisions I was perplexed about the quality of the articles in the rag, but then understood ever so clearly why the articles all sound the same.
Again I concur from all I know about articles and teachings from the main stage. I think there is some freedom at the fellowship level but even that is rather monitored and controlled from the levels upward.
I expect that the STS teachings follow the same process. I remember Mrs. de lil*s making a few comments in a teaching once about getting "suggestions" from the fox herself about her teaching. Maybe rosie only works with the women, though. ;)-->
I don't think she is promiscuous actually. Now is that one wildfoot sentence or what!
Sad thing is that they still tie all that to performance based religion. Otherwise, they are starting to sound like all the other churches out there. Pretty soon they aren't going to be able to hide the fact that there really IS something better out there....if not better, at least places that offer the same things with less control, manipulation and micro-management.
Belle, I would suggest that perhaps, just perhaps, they finally came to the conclusion that the "modern" informercial type of high pressure sales, loaded with "positive" veyspeak just doesn't do the job it used to.
I think people are just plain worn out from being subjected to this kind of junk, an answer to EVERYTHING, promoting a product that they consider next to blasphemy to question in any way, results absolutely guaranteed until you do not receive them.
Maybe they just can't muster up the excitement that they once had for an old, unworkable product.
Maybe they are beginning to count up the lawsuits and the shekels..
Maybe they are getting a clue of what's really going on. Rosie may not outlive their dwindling nest egg, but the other guys most likely will.
It would be far better for them to get a clue about what kind of abuse they heaped on thousands of people, but that would be wishing for a little too much.
From the tone that I perceive from these articles, they are kinder and gentler, in word only.
If we fail to live up to the standard of His Word, whether in action or attitude or both, God is merciful and kind to forgive our trespass and cleanse us from all unrighteousness as we go to Him with meek and humble hearts....Then we in turn need to forgive ourselves....
That is by far the most tender thing I can remember hearing come from TWI since my first year of being involved with them over 10 years ago.
Again I agree with you. Her whole article was actually one of the most tender pieces I've read from them for many years.
Sad thing is that they still tie all that to performance based religion. Otherwise, they are starting to sound like all the other churches out there. Pretty soon they aren't going to be able to hide the fact that there really IS something better out there....if not better, at least places that offer the same things with less control, manipulation and micro-management.
Yes indeed, but they have the warm and human articles like hers that keep them interested. Although she may have no idea how important her tenderness supplied that bit of hope for the questioning to read. Such things aided in my holding on until I could walk away.
The Way Rag will continue to be a fancy newsletter rather than a research and teaching ministry tool (remember GMIR) unless somebody with the spirit of God moves. But the BOT stopped that sort of subversive activity along time ago.
TWI is a dangerous place. They tell you what to
believe and how to practice your faith. Something they themselves are not experts at.
Get out now.
I would agree the ones telling what to do are the most critical to need what they preach. It apparently fell short of their gray matter along the way. Or the Word mattered less than the show of understanding that falls short when called upon. As I guess I may have stated already, but worth repeating.
Sad thing is that they still tie all that to performance based religion. Otherwise, they are starting to sound like all the other churches out there. Pretty soon they aren't going to be able to hide the fact that there really IS something better out there....if not better, at least places that offer the same things with less control, manipulation and micro-management.
Belle, I would suggest that perhaps, just perhaps, they finally came to the conclusion that the "modern" informercial type of high pressure sales, loaded with "positive" veyspeak just doesn't do the job it used to.
I think people are just plain worn out from being subjected to this kind of junk, an answer to EVERYTHING, promoting a product that they consider next to blasphemy to question in any way, results absolutely guaranteed until you do not receive them.
Maybe they just can't muster up the excitement that they once had for an old, unworkable product.
Maybe they are beginning to count up the lawsuits and the shekels..
Maybe they are getting a clue of what's really going on. Rosie may not outlive their dwindling nest egg, but the other guys most likely will.
It would be far better for them to get a clue about what kind of abuse they heaped on thousands of people, but that would be wishing for a little too much.
From the tone that I perceive from these articles, they are kinder and gentler, in word only.
They still dismiss people as if they were expendable. That alone is proving isn't it!
Yep, House, that's about what I see too. The nice softer, almost humanized, words suggest some kind of false "repentance" of sorts..
"We're nice(er) now".
But they are still up there in their cloud, at least temporarily, busy enough to ignore all the problems they promoted down here in the valley of human need..
The Way Rag will continue to be a fancy newsletter rather than a research and teaching ministry tool (remember GMIR)...
Fortunateone -- yup, I remember GMIR, and have most (if not all) of them. Best part of the magazine (imo) when they were putting them in the way mag. I took all the GMIR articles out of the magazine (they were easily detachable), and keep them on my bookshelf upstairs, while the rest of the way mags are in a box in my basement. :)-->
Those GMIR articles are worth looking at, from time to time. (note -- figure of speech ommission -- gmir is mentioned, way mag is not). :D-->
Yep, House, that's about what I see too. The nice softer, almost humanized, words suggest some kind of false "repentance" of sorts..
"We're nice(er) now".
But they are still up there in their cloud, at least temporarily, busy enough to ignore all the problems they promoted down here in the valley of human need..
Oh well.
I know we're not to be dependent upon another as we would God. But they made us dependent upon them then let us down. They should have openly told us not to put our confidence in a man and kept it at that. But they tied things to obedience to them or else we would suffer loss. Respecting a teacher of the Word is quite different from respecting them as the source and believing if you leave them you will be outside.
The Way Rag will continue to be a fancy newsletter rather than a research and teaching ministry tool (remember GMIR)...
Fortunateone -- yup, I remember GMIR, and have most (if not all) of them. Best part of the magazine (imo) when they were putting them in the way mag. I took all the GMIR articles out of the magazine (they were easily detachable), and keep them on my bookshelf upstairs, while the rest of the way mags are in a box in my basement. :)-->
Those GMIR articles are worth looking at, from time to time. (note -- figure of speech ommission -- gmir is mentioned, way mag is not). :D-->
David
Lest we think you are saying something you aren't. :)-->
Okay, color me stupid.....what the heck is GMIR? I don't remember getting anything worth keeping from my way rags.... Course my ex took care of that for me by taking every last one of them. :D-->
Houseisarockin- You are very kind and made my day. Thank you. :)--> I haven't been called "mouth of the south" for nuthin' so I don't expect people to always read what I type, so I really appreciate it. :D-->
quote:
Let's keep growing and flourishing in our cultivation of spiritual fruit, giving God the glory as we live and speak the truth abundantly!
So here we are back at cultivating fruit... --> I don't think they're talking about the fruit of the spirit here. Fruit of the spirit doesn't come from witnessing and "speaking the truth abundantly!" the way that TWI teaches. Besides that, I don't know many of them who are really living the more abundant life.
Joe believer on average doesn't make much money, drives a clunker and is getting deeper into debt because he isn't going to be able to keep paying the rising rental fees once he retires. On top of that he's most likely miserable and thinks it's just because he isn't living "up to the standard of the word" instead of the fact that just maybe he isn't really being taught the accuracy and greatness of the word.
Those depending on TWI for their lifestyle only appear to be living abundantly because they drive nice cars, live in nice homes, don't have to work and get to spend all their time playing around and interfering in people's lives, but most likely they lose sleep at night wondering what they're going to do when they get sick and start accumulating healthcare bills like Mrs. W. Who's @s s are they going to have to kiss next and will they still be able to collect a paycheck or will they finally have to face life in the "real world"..... pretty scary if you ask me.
Any idea what they did? Do they still go out "confronting the world with Our, oops, I mean God's Word?" --> Or have the finally admitted they just want your cash for a class?
Nah, don't know, don't care - just wanna be rid of the Way stink in this state once and for all.
I would be surprised if anybody new would really commit to the Way from this effort...
Yeah, I fell for this stuff once upon a time, but it really was a different organization way back when.
Okay, color me stupid.....what the heck is GMIR? I don't remember getting anything worth keeping from my way rags.... Course my ex took care of that for me by taking every last one of them. :D-->
Houseisarockin- You are very kind and made my day. Thank you. :)--> I haven't been called "mouth of the south" for nuthin' so I don't expect people to always read what I type, so I really appreciate it. :D-->
quote:
Let's keep growing and flourishing in our cultivation of spiritual fruit, giving God the glory as we live and speak the truth abundantly!
So here we are back at cultivating fruit... --> I don't think they're talking about the fruit of the spirit here. Fruit of the spirit doesn't come from witnessing and "speaking the truth abundantly!" the way that TWI teaches. Besides that, I don't know many of them who are really living the more abundant life.
Joe believer on average doesn't make much money, drives a clunker and is getting deeper into debt because he isn't going to be able to keep paying the rising rental fees once he retires. On top of that he's most likely miserable and thinks it's just because he isn't living "up to the standard of the word" instead of the fact that just maybe he isn't really being taught the accuracy and greatness of the word.
Those depending on TWI for their lifestyle only appear to be living abundantly because they drive nice cars, live in nice homes, don't have to work and get to spend all their time playing around and interfering in people's lives, but most likely they lose sleep at night wondering what they're going to do when they get sick and start accumulating healthcare bills like Mrs. W. Who's @s s are they going to have to kiss next and will they still be able to collect a paycheck or will they finally have to face life in the "real world"..... pretty scary if you ask me.
Belle, I don't know what GMIR is either, I just didn't mention it. -->
I've wondered what the older corps either on staff or in the field thought also in regards to their financially security. I've heard it said by a couple that God will provide what they needed when needed. They were doing His will and he'd not fail them. When pressed with the logic of not being financially prepared I was told that was placing trust in worldly matters.
While I see godly principals in not trusting in worldly things, I also understand our God as not wanting us to be fools. And not preparing for an age when you may not be able to work so you can pay your RENT is just plain foolish, IMHO.
Any idea what they did? Do they still go out "confronting the world with Our, oops, I mean God's Word?" --> Or have the finally admitted they just want your cash for a class?
Nah, don't know, don't care - just wanna be rid of the Way stink in this state once and for all.
I would be surprised if anybody new would really commit to the Way from this effort...
Yeah, I fell for this stuff once upon a time, but it really was a different organization way back when.
I was part of both twi1 and twi2 and do admit the later was more controlling. Although I have some wonderful memories and did learn more than I may ever realize. But the failing of continued deliverance for their folks will send them heading toward the exit sign.
GMIR was an attempt by the Way Magazine to publish actual research articles (as opposed to just presenting doctrine and dogma disguised as "teachings"). The title came "from Aramaic gmr– 'to perfect', presenting the necessary documentation to get back the original, God-inspired Word, by believing on 2 Tim. 2:15 (The Way Magazine, May-June 1982)." The Forgery of Matthew
Very interesting, Kevlar. Thanks. I never saw anything even remotely akin to this the whole time I was in, but then again, I didn't get involved till after lcm started his absolute power trip.
Ahhhh, thanks WW. Bernita was one of the first faithful long-standing TWI workers kicked to the curb when she started needing more assistance and money due to old age, isn't she?
I loved reading her "Manners and Customs" articles. Even when I left they were running re-prints of her articles in the magazine.
Good Morning John, you have some time off today? Have a good Memorial Day will you. Believe it or not some here know you have a good heart underneath it all. Keep tapped into it, it'll beacon your way out some day.
And it is nice to see your name logged in once in a while, again that may surprise you John.
We are still required to jump through hoops and to "do good works" according to what TWI considers good works. This is from their website and speaks loud and clear, imo, about how they haven't changed:
"To claim and manifest God's healing, we believe on the positives of His Word, not the negatives of the world. When we become immersed in the Word and start living according to God's promises, we find that He is able to bring us health and peace."
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fortunateone
Publish or perish.
That is an adage quoted by academians.
The Way Rag will continue to be a fancy newsletter rather than a research and teaching ministry tool (remember GMIR) unless somebody with the spirit of God moves. But the BOT stopped that sort of subversive activity along time ago.
TWI is a dangerous place. They tell you what to
believe and how to practice your faith. Something they themselves are not experts at.
Get out now.
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houseisarockin
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houseisarockin
You made an excellent point. And their closing statement in the "About This Issue" captures the direction, and words like "laborers" "advance" "word and deed" all fit into this year's theme quite well. Where "prevailing" and "victory" are less individualized possibly.
The closing statement:
Let's keep growing and flourishing in our cultivation of spiritual fruit, giving God the glory as we live and speak the truth abundantly!
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houseisarockin
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houseisarockin
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Ham
Belle, I would suggest that perhaps, just perhaps, they finally came to the conclusion that the "modern" informercial type of high pressure sales, loaded with "positive" veyspeak just doesn't do the job it used to.
I think people are just plain worn out from being subjected to this kind of junk, an answer to EVERYTHING, promoting a product that they consider next to blasphemy to question in any way, results absolutely guaranteed until you do not receive them.
Maybe they just can't muster up the excitement that they once had for an old, unworkable product.
Maybe they are beginning to count up the lawsuits and the shekels..
Maybe they are getting a clue of what's really going on. Rosie may not outlive their dwindling nest egg, but the other guys most likely will.
It would be far better for them to get a clue about what kind of abuse they heaped on thousands of people, but that would be wishing for a little too much.
From the tone that I perceive from these articles, they are kinder and gentler, in word only.
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houseisarockin
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houseisarockin
I would agree the ones telling what to do are the most critical to need what they preach. It apparently fell short of their gray matter along the way. Or the Word mattered less than the show of understanding that falls short when called upon. As I guess I may have stated already, but worth repeating.
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houseisarockin
They still dismiss people as if they were expendable. That alone is proving isn't it!
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Ham
Yep, House, that's about what I see too. The nice softer, almost humanized, words suggest some kind of false "repentance" of sorts..
"We're nice(er) now".
But they are still up there in their cloud, at least temporarily, busy enough to ignore all the problems they promoted down here in the valley of human need..
Oh well.
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dmiller
Fortunateone -- yup, I remember GMIR, and have most (if not all) of them. Best part of the magazine (imo) when they were putting them in the way mag. I took all the GMIR articles out of the magazine (they were easily detachable), and keep them on my bookshelf upstairs, while the rest of the way mags are in a box in my basement.
:)-->
Those GMIR articles are worth looking at, from time to time. (note -- figure of speech ommission -- gmir is mentioned, way mag is not).
:D-->
David
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houseisarockin
I know we're not to be dependent upon another as we would God. But they made us dependent upon them then let us down. They should have openly told us not to put our confidence in a man and kept it at that. But they tied things to obedience to them or else we would suffer loss. Respecting a teacher of the Word is quite different from respecting them as the source and believing if you leave them you will be outside.
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houseisarockin
Lest we think you are saying something you aren't.
:)-->
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Belle
Okay, color me stupid.....what the heck is GMIR? I don't remember getting anything worth keeping from my way rags.... Course my ex took care of that for me by taking every last one of them.
:D-->
Houseisarockin- You are very kind and made my day. Thank you.
:)--> I haven't been called "mouth of the south" for nuthin' so I don't expect people to always read what I type, so I really appreciate it. 
:D-->
So here we are back at cultivating fruit...
--> I don't think they're talking about the fruit of the spirit here. Fruit of the spirit doesn't come from witnessing and "speaking the truth abundantly!" the way that TWI teaches. Besides that, I don't know many of them who are really living the more abundant life.
Joe believer on average doesn't make much money, drives a clunker and is getting deeper into debt because he isn't going to be able to keep paying the rising rental fees once he retires. On top of that he's most likely miserable and thinks it's just because he isn't living "up to the standard of the word" instead of the fact that just maybe he isn't really being taught the accuracy and greatness of the word.
Those depending on TWI for their lifestyle only appear to be living abundantly because they drive nice cars, live in nice homes, don't have to work and get to spend all their time playing around and interfering in people's lives, but most likely they lose sleep at night wondering what they're going to do when they get sick and start accumulating healthcare bills like Mrs. W. Who's @s s are they going to have to kiss next and will they still be able to collect a paycheck or will they finally have to face life in the "real world"..... pretty scary if you ask me.
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Kevlar2000
Nah, don't know, don't care - just wanna be rid of the Way stink in this state once and for all.
I would be surprised if anybody new would really commit to the Way from this effort...
Yeah, I fell for this stuff once upon a time, but it really was a different organization way back when.
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houseisarockin
Belle, I don't know what GMIR is either, I just didn't mention it.
-->
I've wondered what the older corps either on staff or in the field thought also in regards to their financially security. I've heard it said by a couple that God will provide what they needed when needed. They were doing His will and he'd not fail them. When pressed with the logic of not being financially prepared I was told that was placing trust in worldly matters.
While I see godly principals in not trusting in worldly things, I also understand our God as not wanting us to be fools. And not preparing for an age when you may not be able to work so you can pay your RENT is just plain foolish, IMHO.
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houseisarockin
I was part of both twi1 and twi2 and do admit the later was more controlling. Although I have some wonderful memories and did learn more than I may ever realize. But the failing of continued deliverance for their folks will send them heading toward the exit sign.
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Kevlar2000
GMIR was an attempt by the Way Magazine to publish actual research articles (as opposed to just presenting doctrine and dogma disguised as "teachings"). The title came "from Aramaic gmr– 'to perfect', presenting the necessary documentation to get back the original, God-inspired Word, by believing on 2 Tim. 2:15 (The Way Magazine, May-June 1982)." The Forgery of Matthew
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Belle
Very interesting, Kevlar. Thanks. I never saw anything even remotely akin to this the whole time I was in, but then again, I didn't get involved till after lcm started his absolute power trip.
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DaddyHoundog
GMIR was essentially produced by Walter Cummin and Bernita Jesse.
Walter well... he left
Bernita no longer lives in HQ land and is taken care of by Rob and Sharon Mortensen in Michigan somewhere. (Sharon is Sharon Jesse Mortenson)
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Belle
Ahhhh, thanks WW. Bernita was one of the first faithful long-standing TWI workers kicked to the curb when she started needing more assistance and money due to old age, isn't she?
I loved reading her "Manners and Customs" articles. Even when I left they were running re-prints of her articles in the magazine.
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houseisarockin
Good Morning John, you have some time off today? Have a good Memorial Day will you. Believe it or not some here know you have a good heart underneath it all. Keep tapped into it, it'll beacon your way out some day.
And it is nice to see your name logged in once in a while, again that may surprise you John.
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Ham
"made and impact"
"in the world"
Sure would be interesting if we had a few specifics.. heh heh.
"I keep hammering my head in the pavement, because the BOD tells me so. All this activity must be having some kind of an effect.."
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WaywardWayfer
We are still required to jump through hoops and to "do good works" according to what TWI considers good works. This is from their website and speaks loud and clear, imo, about how they haven't changed:
"To claim and manifest God's healing, we believe on the positives of His Word, not the negatives of the world. When we become immersed in the Word and start living according to God's promises, we find that He is able to bring us health and peace."
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