How easy is it to blame the constant scrutiny on those who were wronged. They are just venemous, or full of bitterness, or not loving, or etc, etc, etc.
It was YOUR FRIGGIN fault. Mine too- I did my share of unmitigated evil at times. Sometimes "I'm sorry" fixes it. Sometimes, it will never be fixed- and you have to live with it. Like it or not.
Hammers right...this wasn't like belonging to the Elks club...this was about our relationship with God and all that goes with it...an involvement that goes right to the deepest recesses of the human heart...when people lie and hurt others in God's name...you can't just shrug it off and pretend it didn't happen.
And spend the rest of my life being as angry as you - no thanks.
And by the way, I left TWI barely old enough to drink. I had little to do with so much of what caused it's destruction. I was run over by the LCM express nonetheless. I was hurt personally by LCM in ways that would rival many of the stories posted here, and I didn't deserve one bit of it. I left The Way broken and without hope.
It's interesting that I would advocate a refocus on Christ and get flamed for daring to suggest that we look at something other than the evil Way International.
Like I said there is one thing that draws all to the offshoot.
Myself, I acted like a royal foot towards about ten of God's people. For this I have apologized, to those that I could.
In my earlier days of great religious zeal, my actions in another circumstance very likely directly resulted in the separation of a man and wife. And my immediate and upper leadership approved of said action. I asked for forgiveness from one party, and they seemingly forgived. To the other, I have never seen again.
This still bothers me to this day.
When I REALLY came to my senses, it bothered me a whole heck of a lot more.
One good thing though, nothing like this will happen again, on MY watch.
One guy I threw out of twig, and still don't know if it was really the right thing to do. Haven't seen him for years, or know where he is. But I'd be the first to admit I was a royal foot in the situation.
To these people, I would never say "just get over it, you got da word after all.."
Never.
I accept full responsability.
Take what I did and muliply it by a hundred, or a couple thousand-
I can't imagine what life must be like for loy. Personally, I think it must be prescription medicine that gets him through life day to day..
What did I do in God's name? Good question. I thought I was doing a lot of good. Looking back on it, I'm sure it wasn't much. I know some things I did that were good. I know for a fact that a kid I witnessed to is probably still alive today.
He would have killed himself had we not taken him into our house and helped him get back onto his feet. I'm sure this was a function more of the love of God in our hearts than a direct result of anything coming out of HQ.
I hadn't really started chewing people up in my personal ministry yet, I just didn't have the heart to do that to others, still too young. I was well on my way in the Corps though. Thankfully someone revealed Christ to me in the situation and I realized that wasn't the kind of minister I wanted to be. It's part of what got me sideways with LCM. I owe some apologies to people, specifically a couple of girlfriends I had. Our behavior was mutual but looking back on it now, as a father, I regret my attitude. Those who I can apologize to I have and will continue to do so.
Make no mistake, I don't advocate just getting over anything. I know all to well what happens to people who don't acknowledge the sin nature of man. Romans 1-3 is still relevant. Another problem we had in The Way, we all ignored the sinful nature of man and tried to act like his influence in life was irrelevant. Not so...
Christ was the only one capable of burying our sinful nature and Christ is the only one capable of bringing peace to any of us.
It's interesting that I would advocate a refocus on Christ and get flamed for daring to suggest that we look at something other than the evil Way International.
I would not say flamed to be quite accurate.
Or that a refocus on Christ is the wrong thing to do.
What would HE want us to do?
He is the one that taught to not bother giving an offering until things were reconciled between brethren. Then offer your offering..
In a lot of ways, what I see here many people seeking to be- reconciled.
Here we all are. And TWI knows where we are at.
The hand has been extended. So far, I see- no reconciliation. Just a hearty "go be warmed", "just get over it"..
DizzyDog... I'm sure you mean well, but take another glance at the name of this forum: The Greasespot Cafe... it's NOT about putting a Christian glaze on everything and being positive about everything(although there are many here who find the strength to get over their twi experiences through a refreshed relationship with God).
This place is about comiserating with others about our experiences: good, bad and ugly. About opening the wounds so the puss can seep out and the healing can truly begin. It's that puss that often gets discussed here. (sorry to be so graphic but that's just how I feel about it) It is about purposely LOOKING (closely, in fact) at the things we hid from ourselves for too long. So if this self-examination process makes you uncomfortable, I'm very sorry. But it is a NEEDED process for most of us to truly recover.
And it is a process. Some can come here and say, "Are you STILL here?" But I have thought I'm all better and still found myself getting "jumped" by a thought or a situation that puts me right back in the crapper, even if for only a moment. Who the heck else is gonna understand that experience the way the people on this forum do?
So... I'm glad you are here. And I'm glad if you've found what works for you. But please don't preach to the rest of us. You will find no quicker way to a deaf ear from ex-twigites than a preachy attitude.
Well, its hard to convey tone sometime. Concerned would be more accurate. Or funny sometimes. But not wrathful or full of seething rage..
It concerns me.
The old leadership owe it to themselves as much as they owe it to us to at least try to straighten out the mess.
And this stuff will hang on and linger, for YEARS.
Sneaking out in the cover of night, and trying to open up your own shop (ministry) will not fix it.
Don't read into this I think this of all the offshoots. Many I know of took efforts to seek out those that were hurt. Others chose the other route- they went to do their own thing, and just wished the embarrassment associated with some people here would just go away.
Some of them hurt so many folks, they couldn't remember them all. That's a real problem in itself.
And this stuff will hang on and linger, for YEARS.
Another thought about this- if THEY don't take care of it, the kids will either inherit it, or flee. Cripe, for their own offspring they have a debt to take care of this.
I don't think so. There IS NO "getting over" what atrocities were performed by The Way Interntaional's designated ministers against God's people.
There is only overcoming what has occurred. That takes time, and a lot of work, and a whole lot of patience, among other things. And no one can madate the path each person must take, or the amount of time it may take in order to accomplish the task.
A person can overcome many hardships they face. But at least one thing that was stolen from us cannot be recovered. No person or organization can give us back the time we lost. The years, the decades, the strength of our youth and the idealism that was exploited and robbed from each of us. But God sees, God knows, and God can restore.
"It's not what I have accomplished in life that is so important. It is what I have overcome."
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Ham
How easy is it to blame the constant scrutiny on those who were wronged. They are just venemous, or full of bitterness, or not loving, or etc, etc, etc.
It was YOUR FRIGGIN fault. Mine too- I did my share of unmitigated evil at times. Sometimes "I'm sorry" fixes it. Sometimes, it will never be fixed- and you have to live with it. Like it or not.
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dizzydog
This might be a good time to up the med's.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Hammers right...this wasn't like belonging to the Elks club...this was about our relationship with God and all that goes with it...an involvement that goes right to the deepest recesses of the human heart...when people lie and hurt others in God's name...you can't just shrug it off and pretend it didn't happen.
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Ham
Sadly, that is the only way some people can live with themselves.
I'd rather face the music than to go off and hide somewhere, artificially induced into thinking somehow everything will really be OK.
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dizzydog
And spend the rest of my life being as angry as you - no thanks.
And by the way, I left TWI barely old enough to drink. I had little to do with so much of what caused it's destruction. I was run over by the LCM express nonetheless. I was hurt personally by LCM in ways that would rival many of the stories posted here, and I didn't deserve one bit of it. I left The Way broken and without hope.
It's interesting that I would advocate a refocus on Christ and get flamed for daring to suggest that we look at something other than the evil Way International.
Like I said there is one thing that draws all to the offshoot.
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Ham
So, what did you do in God's name?
Myself, I acted like a royal foot towards about ten of God's people. For this I have apologized, to those that I could.
In my earlier days of great religious zeal, my actions in another circumstance very likely directly resulted in the separation of a man and wife. And my immediate and upper leadership approved of said action. I asked for forgiveness from one party, and they seemingly forgived. To the other, I have never seen again.
This still bothers me to this day.
When I REALLY came to my senses, it bothered me a whole heck of a lot more.
One good thing though, nothing like this will happen again, on MY watch.
One guy I threw out of twig, and still don't know if it was really the right thing to do. Haven't seen him for years, or know where he is. But I'd be the first to admit I was a royal foot in the situation.
To these people, I would never say "just get over it, you got da word after all.."
Never.
I accept full responsability.
Take what I did and muliply it by a hundred, or a couple thousand-
I can't imagine what life must be like for loy. Personally, I think it must be prescription medicine that gets him through life day to day..
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Ham
You may read anger in these posts, but it is not there.
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dizzydog
What did I do in God's name? Good question. I thought I was doing a lot of good. Looking back on it, I'm sure it wasn't much. I know some things I did that were good. I know for a fact that a kid I witnessed to is probably still alive today.
He would have killed himself had we not taken him into our house and helped him get back onto his feet. I'm sure this was a function more of the love of God in our hearts than a direct result of anything coming out of HQ.
I hadn't really started chewing people up in my personal ministry yet, I just didn't have the heart to do that to others, still too young. I was well on my way in the Corps though. Thankfully someone revealed Christ to me in the situation and I realized that wasn't the kind of minister I wanted to be. It's part of what got me sideways with LCM. I owe some apologies to people, specifically a couple of girlfriends I had. Our behavior was mutual but looking back on it now, as a father, I regret my attitude. Those who I can apologize to I have and will continue to do so.
Make no mistake, I don't advocate just getting over anything. I know all to well what happens to people who don't acknowledge the sin nature of man. Romans 1-3 is still relevant. Another problem we had in The Way, we all ignored the sinful nature of man and tried to act like his influence in life was irrelevant. Not so...
Christ was the only one capable of burying our sinful nature and Christ is the only one capable of bringing peace to any of us.
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Zshot
We can not change anything that has happened in the past.
However, we can learn from the past and instruct others about what we have learned.
Sometimes an appology can settle things, sometimes it dosen't come close...
We all are the sum and supstance of all of our experiences and actions (the good, bad and ugly).
We all decide what things we dwell upon.
Hopefully, whatever we did or what ever was done to us will not hinder us from moveing forward and trying to make better lives for ourselves.
Some people will never "get over it" nor should they be expected to. Hopefully scars of the past will mend to the point that they can enjoy life.
Hopefully the "ghosts" of vpw, lcm, twi etc... will no longer haunt the memories of the victoms of words said and deeds done.
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Ham
I would not say flamed to be quite accurate.
Or that a refocus on Christ is the wrong thing to do.
What would HE want us to do?
He is the one that taught to not bother giving an offering until things were reconciled between brethren. Then offer your offering..
In a lot of ways, what I see here many people seeking to be- reconciled.
Here we all are. And TWI knows where we are at.
The hand has been extended. So far, I see- no reconciliation. Just a hearty "go be warmed", "just get over it"..
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dizzydog
And hammeroni- perhaps you should look at the tone of your posts before you so quickly say you aren't angry.
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CoolWaters
You did nothing of the sort...and nothing even close.
What you did was put yourself in a place of judgement...and pointed not to Christ, but to a bottle of medicine.
Wanna try again?
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TheHighWay
DizzyDog... I'm sure you mean well, but take another glance at the name of this forum: The Greasespot Cafe... it's NOT about putting a Christian glaze on everything and being positive about everything(although there are many here who find the strength to get over their twi experiences through a refreshed relationship with God).
This place is about comiserating with others about our experiences: good, bad and ugly. About opening the wounds so the puss can seep out and the healing can truly begin. It's that puss that often gets discussed here. (sorry to be so graphic but that's just how I feel about it) It is about purposely LOOKING (closely, in fact) at the things we hid from ourselves for too long. So if this self-examination process makes you uncomfortable, I'm very sorry. But it is a NEEDED process for most of us to truly recover.
And it is a process. Some can come here and say, "Are you STILL here?" But I have thought I'm all better and still found myself getting "jumped" by a thought or a situation that puts me right back in the crapper, even if for only a moment. Who the heck else is gonna understand that experience the way the people on this forum do?
So... I'm glad you are here. And I'm glad if you've found what works for you. But please don't preach to the rest of us. You will find no quicker way to a deaf ear from ex-twigites than a preachy attitude.
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CoolWaters
Ham,
Anger is one of the stages of grief...and one of the things twi vehemently denied/denies people to express.
"Be angry and sin not."
Read Harve Platig's letter to JPW...and recognize the root of some of the 'advice' you're being given.
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Ham
Well, its hard to convey tone sometime. Concerned would be more accurate. Or funny sometimes. But not wrathful or full of seething rage..
It concerns me.
The old leadership owe it to themselves as much as they owe it to us to at least try to straighten out the mess.
And this stuff will hang on and linger, for YEARS.
Sneaking out in the cover of night, and trying to open up your own shop (ministry) will not fix it.
Don't read into this I think this of all the offshoots. Many I know of took efforts to seek out those that were hurt. Others chose the other route- they went to do their own thing, and just wished the embarrassment associated with some people here would just go away.
Some of them hurt so many folks, they couldn't remember them all. That's a real problem in itself.
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Ham
Yep. And I have had my share of that.
And it still comes up. And its too hot to hold on to for any length of time, have to do something..
Any more, I think I get more angry at myself when I remember some of the stupid stuff I used to believe and do.
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Ham
True Coolwaters.. couldn't express it, could we?
I think maybe some confuse anger with sin, or seething rage. Of course the latter may be appropriate at times..
"just renew the mind", ptooie.
I kind of put that in the same category as "just get over it".
Now there was a LITTLE anger. Not too shabby, heh heh.
I kind of like this forum, because the anger is controllable. Not in a bad way, but you have to think about things a little more before you type.
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Ham
Another thought about this- if THEY don't take care of it, the kids will either inherit it, or flee. Cripe, for their own offspring they have a debt to take care of this.
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Catcup
Just Get over it?
I don't think so. There IS NO "getting over" what atrocities were performed by The Way Interntaional's designated ministers against God's people.
There is only overcoming what has occurred. That takes time, and a lot of work, and a whole lot of patience, among other things. And no one can madate the path each person must take, or the amount of time it may take in order to accomplish the task.
A person can overcome many hardships they face. But at least one thing that was stolen from us cannot be recovered. No person or organization can give us back the time we lost. The years, the decades, the strength of our youth and the idealism that was exploited and robbed from each of us. But God sees, God knows, and God can restore.
"It's not what I have accomplished in life that is so important. It is what I have overcome."
W.E.B. Dubois
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dizzydog
Coolwaters,
This thread is a "offshoot" of another thread. I was refering to that when I commented on bringing up Christ.
And Highway as far as my bringing up Christ. Once again this is getting back to the previous dialogue. I am all to aware of the audience on this site.
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Catcup
The Way International and those who support them, wish we would simply let up on rehearsing the evils we suffered at their hands.
You want us to let up on you?
Perhaps you should understand the true meaning of peace-- the peace you desire. Peace is not simply the absence of strife.
Peace also requires the presence of justice.
At hands of The Way Interntaional, there is no justice.
Until we have justice, they will have no peace.
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dizzydog
Hammeroni,
You mentioned what Christ would want us to do.
Do you think this website is it? Are you doing Christ's will here?
I'll grant you that I cannot appreciate your tone in these texts.
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Steve!
How do you know he's not?
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dizzydog
Did I say he wasn't?
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