They had taught us the height of paranoia regarding sharing anything about TWI with those "outside the household". Someone had to prove themselves "worthy" aka "a pushover" before they would be allowed into the secret society of TWI.
When people would be asking questions and we, as good little wayfers were "working with them" to try to get them into the class (nevermind really trying to help them), would give them "just enough information' to make them want more.... That's what we were told to do. Then if they kept asking questions we were to invite them to fellowship and to quit answering their questions. We were instructed to tell them that the answers to that were "in the class".
Don't really help people; don't loan your books to them; surely don't let them see your syllabus for any of the classes.
Be careful about how much you share with them because they may not be "mature enough" to "receive" the greatness of what you're sharing....
Sometimes we'd be instructed to tell them that they need to have a good foundation in "the word" before they could really delve into the answers to the particular question they had.
Then there was the whole "don't cast your pearls before swine" witnessing standard. If someone didn't have a job, a car, teeth or money to abs with, then don't waste your time with them. We were to target upper middle class only. The rich were too steeped into the word and love of money and the poor wouldn't appreciate the greatness of the word, they were just looking for a free ride.
OMG! Amazing how much knowledge we had about people we had never met!! I can't believe I was that secretive, arrogant and exclusive. :o :(
They were basically closed when i got in in 79. Although they kept up a very thin facade of being open there was the same secretive behaviour of not telling too much to anyone unless they had been properly indoctrinated enough. The secrets ( i.e. the real Bulls--t) were reserved for those who had already been molded to get it. The paranoia regarding the rest of the world and the superior and secretive attitude was already well on its way by the time I arrived---It was already pretty much a separate subculture way back then.
BELLE, You are forgetting about destroying old stuff so that "God forbid" it would get into the right hands and bless somebody!!!!
All my old Sunday tapes (and I mean old, seems we were never supposed to throw out anything), We were told to rip out the tape and then throw it away!!!!!
Like someone hearing "thank you Father a million times" on a tape was going to get into the WRONG hands and ruin the ministry
For some of us who have recently left, we first cast all of our blame on Craig Martindale. He was the one who had an affair and put a strain on the ministry. I was extremely upset when he admitted the affair, but determined that I wasn't in the ministry for him. I wasn't going to quit doing the Word because of him. I decided to stay. A few years later, when discussing things with a really cool fellowship coordinator of mine, he made me feel like most of the harshness in the ministry was because of Craig. That made sense to me. I thought it was just Craig being a jerk, and that it had hurt the ministry. And thought that the ministry had realize the damage he caused and was trying to correct it (and in fact, I hadn't seen a good "face melting" since Craig "stepped down").
But then I found this site.
I was blown away, to say the least, to hear of TWO lawsuits (and settlements). And to learn of allegations of Rosalie FACILITATING the sexual abuses. That was bad enough. Then to learn that it went beyond that, extending to the other BOT members, I was somewhat shocked. It got worse the more I dug.
Even then, I thought that everything went to hell after Craig took "office." So there's the whole "Well Craig's gone, and we have mostly new directors on the board, and you can't PROVE that Rivenbark knew, so why leave" - that was a thought.
But after reading just as many people share the SAME experiences (that I thought only happened during Craig's regime) dating back to the 70s, I realized that this organization's been this way for a LONG LONG time.
The fact that most people don't realize it's like that for so long, is a testament to how closely guarded the "closed society" really is.
It also occured to me that the Way gets more and more controlling the longer and more involved you've been in. I don't think I ever experineced much of the legalism and abuse until I moved out after high-school graduation (and ESPECIALLY when I went Way Disciple, Goup 1).
It's always been something of a closed society. I think when VP staged his coup on the Way East & West then it became a completely closed society. Dissenters disappeared & were never mentioned again after first having their character defamed in the ugliest fashion. LCM didn't invent those tactics...
I agree with both mstar, and Evan. When I got in back in '75, NO "advanced" info was *available* to anyone who had not had the proper classes, seminars, yada yada. My TC got reamed a new one for calling on me to SIT and interpret in a big meeting before I had had the intermediate class. I wasn't supposed to be able to do that, cause I hadn't had the *proper* teaching about it.
Likewise -- there were *exclusive* banquets, weekends of fellowship, special teachings and music tapes *available* to those who had attained a certain level within twi --- but not to others --- even those who had had the class, and who had been faithful to twi for years.
Twi was a closed society early on both to outsiders, and to those who had not yet *paid the dues* (IMO). The main recollection I have from those days is wanting to take more of the classes, so I could be included in the *good stuff* being passed down.
Docvic did an excellent job of creating a hierarchy that shut off a lot of inter-action between all of us, just because some had had certain classes, and others had not. So yea -- it always was a closed society, even to those of us who took the class, sent in our money, and were given bread crumbs instead of the whole loaf.
It was a closed society in the 80's when I was in.
Any other church in Christendom you can attend on a regular basis , if you so desire, without becoming a member. You'll probably never hold an office in that church but no one will turn you away at the door either. (I'm speaking big picture here not some individual chuirch that is tweaked for some reason)
TWI never had that policy--If you came to TWIG and didn't sign up and graduate form the next "piffle" you weren't welcome back--this was made clear both by word or action. No dissention, no doubts, no lapses, no mistakes allowed. You toed the line or else.
Ever wondered what would have happened to Christianity if Jesus had the policies of TWI???
Questioning disciples--gone
Publicans and Sinners--not hardly
Saul--wouldn't have bothered with him.
Open Air Preaching to thousands??? NOT
Makes you see just how far off base TWI was in application
TWI made it a closed society between my ears even though I had the freedom to walk away. The "them against us" mentality was sufficant to isolate friends and family. The deablo sponed world was enough to cast doubt and distrust twards all that wern't TWI endorsed. The MOG mystic teachings sure put a rench in self actulization and personal spiritual development. So why create your own society when you can create it more sucessfully in the minds of the impressionable and sometimes weak. V.P was a clever man. He learned from the best. He had acess to many forms of info on "how to". Best example that ever was nearly conquered the world back in the 40's. I wonder if there is any genetic relations?
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Belle
Closed? I think that's an understatement. :D
They had taught us the height of paranoia regarding sharing anything about TWI with those "outside the household". Someone had to prove themselves "worthy" aka "a pushover" before they would be allowed into the secret society of TWI.
When people would be asking questions and we, as good little wayfers were "working with them" to try to get them into the class (nevermind really trying to help them), would give them "just enough information' to make them want more.... That's what we were told to do. Then if they kept asking questions we were to invite them to fellowship and to quit answering their questions. We were instructed to tell them that the answers to that were "in the class".
Don't really help people; don't loan your books to them; surely don't let them see your syllabus for any of the classes.
Be careful about how much you share with them because they may not be "mature enough" to "receive" the greatness of what you're sharing....
Sometimes we'd be instructed to tell them that they need to have a good foundation in "the word" before they could really delve into the answers to the particular question they had.
Then there was the whole "don't cast your pearls before swine" witnessing standard. If someone didn't have a job, a car, teeth or money to abs with, then don't waste your time with them. We were to target upper middle class only. The rich were too steeped into the word and love of money and the poor wouldn't appreciate the greatness of the word, they were just looking for a free ride.
OMG! Amazing how much knowledge we had about people we had never met!! I can't believe I was that secretive, arrogant and exclusive. :o :(
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mstar1
They were basically closed when i got in in 79. Although they kept up a very thin facade of being open there was the same secretive behaviour of not telling too much to anyone unless they had been properly indoctrinated enough. The secrets ( i.e. the real Bulls--t) were reserved for those who had already been molded to get it. The paranoia regarding the rest of the world and the superior and secretive attitude was already well on its way by the time I arrived---It was already pretty much a separate subculture way back then.
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bliss
BELLE, You are forgetting about destroying old stuff so that "God forbid" it would get into the right hands and bless somebody!!!!
All my old Sunday tapes (and I mean old, seems we were never supposed to throw out anything), We were told to rip out the tape and then throw it away!!!!!
Like someone hearing "thank you Father a million times" on a tape was going to get into the WRONG hands and ruin the ministry
OUI VEY :o
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Nato
For some of us who have recently left, we first cast all of our blame on Craig Martindale. He was the one who had an affair and put a strain on the ministry. I was extremely upset when he admitted the affair, but determined that I wasn't in the ministry for him. I wasn't going to quit doing the Word because of him. I decided to stay. A few years later, when discussing things with a really cool fellowship coordinator of mine, he made me feel like most of the harshness in the ministry was because of Craig. That made sense to me. I thought it was just Craig being a jerk, and that it had hurt the ministry. And thought that the ministry had realize the damage he caused and was trying to correct it (and in fact, I hadn't seen a good "face melting" since Craig "stepped down").
But then I found this site.
I was blown away, to say the least, to hear of TWO lawsuits (and settlements). And to learn of allegations of Rosalie FACILITATING the sexual abuses. That was bad enough. Then to learn that it went beyond that, extending to the other BOT members, I was somewhat shocked. It got worse the more I dug.
Even then, I thought that everything went to hell after Craig took "office." So there's the whole "Well Craig's gone, and we have mostly new directors on the board, and you can't PROVE that Rivenbark knew, so why leave" - that was a thought.
But after reading just as many people share the SAME experiences (that I thought only happened during Craig's regime) dating back to the 70s, I realized that this organization's been this way for a LONG LONG time.
The fact that most people don't realize it's like that for so long, is a testament to how closely guarded the "closed society" really is.
It also occured to me that the Way gets more and more controlling the longer and more involved you've been in. I don't think I ever experineced much of the legalism and abuse until I moved out after high-school graduation (and ESPECIALLY when I went Way Disciple, Goup 1).
I'm SO thankful I'm out.
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TheEvan
It's always been something of a closed society. I think when VP staged his coup on the Way East & West then it became a completely closed society. Dissenters disappeared & were never mentioned again after first having their character defamed in the ugliest fashion. LCM didn't invent those tactics...
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dmiller
I agree with both mstar, and Evan. When I got in back in '75, NO "advanced" info was *available* to anyone who had not had the proper classes, seminars, yada yada. My TC got reamed a new one for calling on me to SIT and interpret in a big meeting before I had had the intermediate class. I wasn't supposed to be able to do that, cause I hadn't had the *proper* teaching about it.
Likewise -- there were *exclusive* banquets, weekends of fellowship, special teachings and music tapes *available* to those who had attained a certain level within twi --- but not to others --- even those who had had the class, and who had been faithful to twi for years.
Twi was a closed society early on both to outsiders, and to those who had not yet *paid the dues* (IMO). The main recollection I have from those days is wanting to take more of the classes, so I could be included in the *good stuff* being passed down.
Docvic did an excellent job of creating a hierarchy that shut off a lot of inter-action between all of us, just because some had had certain classes, and others had not. So yea -- it always was a closed society, even to those of us who took the class, sent in our money, and were given bread crumbs instead of the whole loaf.
David
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templelady
It was a closed society in the 80's when I was in.
Any other church in Christendom you can attend on a regular basis , if you so desire, without becoming a member. You'll probably never hold an office in that church but no one will turn you away at the door either. (I'm speaking big picture here not some individual chuirch that is tweaked for some reason)
TWI never had that policy--If you came to TWIG and didn't sign up and graduate form the next "piffle" you weren't welcome back--this was made clear both by word or action. No dissention, no doubts, no lapses, no mistakes allowed. You toed the line or else.
Ever wondered what would have happened to Christianity if Jesus had the policies of TWI???
Questioning disciples--gone
Publicans and Sinners--not hardly
Saul--wouldn't have bothered with him.
Open Air Preaching to thousands??? NOT
Makes you see just how far off base TWI was in application
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dmiller
Mo -- I knew I shoulda waited to post!! You just said it so much better. :D
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lilbit
TWI made it a closed society between my ears even though I had the freedom to walk away. The "them against us" mentality was sufficant to isolate friends and family. The deablo sponed world was enough to cast doubt and distrust twards all that wern't TWI endorsed. The MOG mystic teachings sure put a rench in self actulization and personal spiritual development. So why create your own society when you can create it more sucessfully in the minds of the impressionable and sometimes weak. V.P was a clever man. He learned from the best. He had acess to many forms of info on "how to". Best example that ever was nearly conquered the world back in the 40's. I wonder if there is any genetic relations?
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