Yeah, I guess it's a real shame how people speak ill of the dead: the accusations against his character, all the people he supposedly hurt, comparing old wounds. How can you prove he did all the nasty things of which people constantly accuse him? For that matter, maybe what he did was exaggerated, or perhaps maybe never even happened at all. For that matter, maybe he actually did some good. But oh, well, he's dead now.
I guess I'll have to stop teaching about the atrocities of Adolf Hitler when I get to WWII.
and it is not just a dead man that you think we are bashing. We are bashing live ones too. We can't help it if they don't have the nads to come here and defend their actions. They have been called on the carpet but are more than likley afraid to come here and defend their actions. Probably one of the reasons they wont come here is their actions are not defendable.
We keep rehearsing the evils of what Hitler did in the hopes that no one ever does that to anyone else again. So no one forgets. So no one forgets what circumstances brought him to power, how he abused his power, and the consequences of obedience to unchecked evil and tyranny upon masses of people, and what it took to eliminate the threat of the evil that was ensconced in Germany. To this day, there are people still willing to take up Hitler's cause. To keep the history out there, helps suppress the evil that is still willing to rise again. It takes vigilance and diligence to keep the stories out there. Especially since the elderly survivors and warriors are dropping like flies, and we now have heads of state like the leader of Iran, claiming the Holocaust never happened, and voicing his intent to blow Israel off the map. it is even more important that we continue to remember, so we do not forget.
Never Again.
What we do on this website is perform one of the functions of recording history: to record the lessons, both good and bad, so we can hopefully avoid previous pitfalls. And we identify those still willing to impose their tyranny upon others.
Those of us who post here about what happened to us at the hands of The Way International may not have numbers tattooed on our forearms, but many of us here bear the scars and fingerprints of that organization in our very souls, and we will not be silenced.
To be silent, is to acquiesce to the evil, allow it to hide, and eventually flourish again.
Lol thank you John, but please....I am not so far from God and peace as you might imagine....
Being a Christian does not prevent me from being revolted by absolutely reprehensible behavior. I have spoken with more than one woman who was destroyed while yet a teenager by these vile men....God doesn`t do this...nor do Godly men with the excuse that this is the grace administration.
These girls were given the same promises of lifes answeres WE were .....power for abundant living....victory in any situation....more than a conquerer...but instead of fellowship and teaching and nurture....they were simply viewed as objects to be used and thrown out like so much garbage.....
It was more than just attempted fornication and rape John... Some of these women...these still teenaged girls ....Two of them that I have personally communicated with.....were savagely thrown out of the ministry and alienated from their family members and friends by dire warnings given from vp and lcm of them being posessed.........John it takes a very special kind of orneriness to do something so cruel.
These girls had no one to turn to by the time vp was done savaging their reputations to cover his bu tt ...... when they didn`t play along ..and THEY were the lucky ones.
Please look at what this man did honestly and openly....if he were anybody other than the keeper of the keys to your truths....you would no doubt be deeply offended and disgusted as well.
I WAS able to enjoy roa ... and so many many things in twi because of my naievety ....the advanced class at emporia....sound out 84 ...fabulous memorable times ALL....but but BUT could I have ...had I KNOWN what vp and lcm were doing at that very same time to my sisters?
Could I have believed that God was guiding men who were capable of not only such sinfull behavior but the outright cruelty as well?
Would I have trusted them or their teachings or their ministry had I known about their inner circle teachings ...about the sex and the drugs?
I don`t think so.
You cannot compartmentalise the evil to just one area....and just say that all of the rest of the stuff he did was ok....
You want to venerate these men as Godly .... I will continue to dispute this as I believe that their actions line them up instead as false prophets and wolves in sheeps clothing seeking whom they may devour...only worried about filling their own bellies....and as such any of their doctrine is suspect.
There is so much more going on here then *bashing dead men*
The bottom line here is had VPW or LCM actually performed signs , miracles, and wonders on par with JC then I would have gladly considered thanking them. But they had no fruit certainly as it related to healing.
Besides, the biblical account is discussing JC. Not VPW or LCM so for them to place themselves in the company of JC is a bit odd. I've never known VPW or LCM to have healed anyone of anything significant let alone leprosy or any other serious disease. Sure. I've heard the stories of *miraculous" healings that involved "deliverance" from sore throats, the sniffles, a headach, or an upset stomach but that is, even if it really happened, is a far cry from the miracles described in the bible. The Way cheapened the concept of "miracle" and it seems to me that people bought it. If your junky car started and got you to twig then it was a "miracle". broke down it was because you were "out of fellowship".
The greatest of all miracles is the new birth, and I certainly think that happened in twi, as a result of VP's & many others' efforts in running twigs, teaching pfal, and so forth; ... efforts that God appreciates and that glorifies Him.
But I'd be interested to know who among us in our day and time performs signs miracles & wonders like Jesus. And if so, are we to just follow this person(s), and toss out everything else because of lack thereof?
I haven't been a part of twi for 14 years, but I am still thankful for having heard what VP and others taught, regardless of their imperfections. People are full of flaws...and don't kid yourself either, women are very good at saying yes or no. I held on to that which was good in twi, and if others get HONEST, I'm sure they could find some good too. I don't care where he got some info. from, or if he got his doctorate from Pike's peak...HE knew more of the Bible than anyone I have ever known, and made it available for me to understand, where it actually made sense! ...
Thanks for your comments freeindeed. I feel the same.
What we do on this website is perform one of the functions of recording history: to record the lessons, both good and bad, so we can hopefully avoid previous pitfalls. And we identify those still willing to impose their tyranny upon others.
That's fine.
Yes, let's talk about the history, both good and bad.
But that is different from what was said earlier: "there is no baby, toss out the dirty soup".
Yes, let's talk about the history, both good and bad.
But that is different from what was said earlier: "there is no baby, toss out the dirty soup".
That my dear, is my opinion, to which I am entitled, and your mileage may vary.
Which brings us full circle back to the original purpose of the thread.
“…it is the moral choices and evaluations that we make in everyday practical living that furnish the data on which ethicists construct theories and against which they finally test them. If ethicists are deficient in moral insight or have warped insights, it seems inevitable that, as a result, their theories will wander from the truth.”
In light of that statement and Wierwille's track record, I do not believe Victor Paul Wierwille has a moral or ethical leg to stand on.
In light of that statement and Wierwille's track record, I do not believe Victor Paul Wierwille has a moral or ethical leg to stand on.
With the mathematical exactness of esoteric arithmosophy and alchemical scientific precision of gnostic dualism, that LEG upon which VPW stood somewhat erect before the anticipated bema, like a hand in a (love)glove, was the meager member of his {quasi-spiritual} 'middle man,' dangling, as it were, most precipitously from the patriarchal mogfart, with a view and even a further beaver's eye view to the perfuncting of the supine estrogenic epistles……….
[/size]
I just had to say it before therightreverendtommietuttledid.
The greatest of all miracles is the new birth, and I certainly think that happened in twi, as a result of VP's & many others' efforts in running twigs, teaching pfal, and so forth; ... efforts that God appreciates and that glorifies Him.
i don't know if i know what god appreciates or what glorifies him
i was already a christian when i got into the way. so i wonder what my great lesson from god was
you know, like being taught how to be loved (body wise) instead of molested (childhood wise) (puke spit and all that kind of stuff) and wierwille is the one who said that to me
jesus christ i was only a few years older really than my childhood
...and don't kid yourself either, women are very good at saying yes or no. I held on to that which was good in twi, and if others get HONEST, I'm sure they could find some good too. I don't care where he got some info. from, or if he got his doctorate from Pike's peak...HE knew more of the Bible than anyone I have ever known
I highly recommend that you, OM, Johniam and Allan could all start your own TWIt fellowship. Obviously there's nothing to see here. Since you already know everything and are fully persuaded in your beliefs, then, I can see why you would be less tolerant of those who were abused or questioning the teachings of vee pee. Patience? bah! Not necessary when you just blindly believe everything you're taught.
CES, CFF and other offshoots - especially Geer's still worship vee pee and what he taught (for the most part), perhaps you'd be happier with one of those organizations.
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Catcup
Yeah, I guess it's a real shame how people speak ill of the dead: the accusations against his character, all the people he supposedly hurt, comparing old wounds. How can you prove he did all the nasty things of which people constantly accuse him? For that matter, maybe what he did was exaggerated, or perhaps maybe never even happened at all. For that matter, maybe he actually did some good. But oh, well, he's dead now.
I guess I'll have to stop teaching about the atrocities of Adolf Hitler when I get to WWII.
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justloafing
and it is not just a dead man that you think we are bashing. We are bashing live ones too. We can't help it if they don't have the nads to come here and defend their actions. They have been called on the carpet but are more than likley afraid to come here and defend their actions. Probably one of the reasons they wont come here is their actions are not defendable.
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Catcup
Oh, yeah--
We keep rehearsing the evils of what Hitler did in the hopes that no one ever does that to anyone else again. So no one forgets. So no one forgets what circumstances brought him to power, how he abused his power, and the consequences of obedience to unchecked evil and tyranny upon masses of people, and what it took to eliminate the threat of the evil that was ensconced in Germany. To this day, there are people still willing to take up Hitler's cause. To keep the history out there, helps suppress the evil that is still willing to rise again. It takes vigilance and diligence to keep the stories out there. Especially since the elderly survivors and warriors are dropping like flies, and we now have heads of state like the leader of Iran, claiming the Holocaust never happened, and voicing his intent to blow Israel off the map. it is even more important that we continue to remember, so we do not forget.
Never Again.
What we do on this website is perform one of the functions of recording history: to record the lessons, both good and bad, so we can hopefully avoid previous pitfalls. And we identify those still willing to impose their tyranny upon others.
Those of us who post here about what happened to us at the hands of The Way International may not have numbers tattooed on our forearms, but many of us here bear the scars and fingerprints of that organization in our very souls, and we will not be silenced.
To be silent, is to acquiesce to the evil, allow it to hide, and eventually flourish again.
Never Again.
Edited by CatcupLink to comment
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rascal
Lol thank you John, but please....I am not so far from God and peace as you might imagine....
Being a Christian does not prevent me from being revolted by absolutely reprehensible behavior. I have spoken with more than one woman who was destroyed while yet a teenager by these vile men....God doesn`t do this...nor do Godly men with the excuse that this is the grace administration.
These girls were given the same promises of lifes answeres WE were .....power for abundant living....victory in any situation....more than a conquerer...but instead of fellowship and teaching and nurture....they were simply viewed as objects to be used and thrown out like so much garbage.....
It was more than just attempted fornication and rape John... Some of these women...these still teenaged girls ....Two of them that I have personally communicated with.....were savagely thrown out of the ministry and alienated from their family members and friends by dire warnings given from vp and lcm of them being posessed.........John it takes a very special kind of orneriness to do something so cruel.
These girls had no one to turn to by the time vp was done savaging their reputations to cover his bu tt ...... when they didn`t play along ..and THEY were the lucky ones.
Please look at what this man did honestly and openly....if he were anybody other than the keeper of the keys to your truths....you would no doubt be deeply offended and disgusted as well.
I WAS able to enjoy roa ... and so many many things in twi because of my naievety ....the advanced class at emporia....sound out 84 ...fabulous memorable times ALL....but but BUT could I have ...had I KNOWN what vp and lcm were doing at that very same time to my sisters?
Could I have believed that God was guiding men who were capable of not only such sinfull behavior but the outright cruelty as well?
Would I have trusted them or their teachings or their ministry had I known about their inner circle teachings ...about the sex and the drugs?
I don`t think so.
You cannot compartmentalise the evil to just one area....and just say that all of the rest of the stuff he did was ok....
You want to venerate these men as Godly .... I will continue to dispute this as I believe that their actions line them up instead as false prophets and wolves in sheeps clothing seeking whom they may devour...only worried about filling their own bellies....and as such any of their doctrine is suspect.
There is so much more going on here then *bashing dead men*
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oldiesman
The greatest of all miracles is the new birth, and I certainly think that happened in twi, as a result of VP's & many others' efforts in running twigs, teaching pfal, and so forth; ... efforts that God appreciates and that glorifies Him.
But I'd be interested to know who among us in our day and time performs signs miracles & wonders like Jesus. And if so, are we to just follow this person(s), and toss out everything else because of lack thereof?
Thanks for your comments freeindeed. I feel the same.
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oldiesman
That's fine.
Yes, let's talk about the history, both good and bad.
But that is different from what was said earlier: "there is no baby, toss out the dirty soup".
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justloafing
That's a great statement oldies. TWI is filthy at the top IMO
Throw that trash out and start anew. Then maybe you will have a baby in the bath water. There is nothing there now but poopy water. :blink:
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Catcup
That my dear, is my opinion, to which I am entitled, and your mileage may vary.
Which brings us full circle back to the original purpose of the thread.
In light of that statement and Wierwille's track record, I do not believe Victor Paul Wierwille has a moral or ethical leg to stand on.
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oldiesman
In that case, my response would be that morality can be mutable.
If we look at Wierwille's track record, it contained both good and evil.
It happens.
Ask Solomon.
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Catcup
Wierwille was no Solomon, nor did he live in that geographical area or time period.
But he loved to pretend he did.
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oldiesman
I would agree, Wierwille was no Solomon.
Solomon did far more evil.
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jkboehme
Per catcup:
With the mathematical exactness of esoteric arithmosophy and alchemical scientific precision of gnostic dualism, that LEG upon which VPW stood somewhat erect before the anticipated bema, like a hand in a (love)glove, was the meager member of his {quasi-spiritual} 'middle man,' dangling, as it were, most precipitously from the patriarchal mogfart, with a view and even a further beaver's eye view to the perfuncting of the supine estrogenic epistles……….
[/size]
I just had to say it before therightreverendtommietuttledid.
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Nottawayfer
Kewl avatar jkboehme! I likee!!
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excathedra
that one i could read jk ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
anyway these kind of discussions get me tired
i don't know if i know what god appreciates or what glorifies himi was already a christian when i got into the way. so i wonder what my great lesson from god was
you know, like being taught how to be loved (body wise) instead of molested (childhood wise) (puke spit and all that kind of stuff) and wierwille is the one who said that to me
jesus christ i was only a few years older really than my childhood
as i like to say, how dare he
and if that's god's take, how dare he too
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WordWolf
[WordWolf in boldface and brackets.]
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Belle
I highly recommend that you, OM, Johniam and Allan could all start your own TWIt fellowship. Obviously there's nothing to see here. Since you already know everything and are fully persuaded in your beliefs, then, I can see why you would be less tolerant of those who were abused or questioning the teachings of vee pee. Patience? bah! Not necessary when you just blindly believe everything you're taught.
CES, CFF and other offshoots - especially Geer's still worship vee pee and what he taught (for the most part), perhaps you'd be happier with one of those organizations.
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