I don't know what it means either but the longer I'm out the less I can remember about TWI's terms. And something else.. they were always adding terms. "old wineskin"? That was one I didn't hear (I left about '87) and of course all the 'prevailing this' or 'prevailing that'. That was TWI II Martindale stuff. Happy ho-ho-relo?? That was after me too. The word Christmas was just fine when I was in.
i have read in many posts about the absent jesus but i guess it flew right over my flat head.
could someone tell me what this phrase is or was supposed to mean?
thanks
Hey there Cool Chef. Perhaps others can explain it better than I, but here is my take on it.
Jesus was our Savior, Promised Seed, Passover, the Messiah, King, etc., etc., as taught by twi.
There is an old tape called THE RED THREAD where docvic shows how Jesus is the subject of every book of the bible from Genesis to Revelation. Romans 10:9-10 are the verses used for salvation, and docvic is famous for saying "Tell me what you think of Jesus, and I'll tell you how far you'll go in life" (something like that).
Twi taught all that, but that is where their relationship with Jesus ended (imo).
Once you got born again, it was up to YOU and YOUR believing. Oh sure -- pray to God for deliverance, but ignore Jesus who is sitting at His right hand with the job of interceeding for the saints.
The *Law of Believing* ~~~~~
working for saint and sinner alike was an evil, evil, twisted piece of logic.
The law of believing put your day to day situations firmly in your hands if you wanted deliverance, forget Jesus sitting at the throne waiting to hear your prayers. Jesus was absent because it was NOW up to you and your believing to *Git R Done*.
And the whole ABS fiasco fits right into this scenario as well. Works, works, works --- salvation was by grace, but dang -- if ya didn't work at it -- you wouldn't be worthy of celestial spit as lcm so poignantly pointed out so many years ago.
Jesus has no place in twi. They used His name as a jumping off point, but after that you had to look to the MOG or other leadership for direction. They were more tapped into the *things of God* than the Man sitting at the right hand of God Himself.
Thus the *Absent Christ*.
Twi wants total control, and doesn't want to play *second fiddle* to anyone. (IMO)
Like I said -- others can probably explain this better, but perhaps this will suffice for now. :)
i guess i have been out too long {or not long enough}
i have read in many posts about the abesent jesus but i guess it flew right over my flat head.
could someone tell me what this phrase is or was supposed to mean?
thanks
Chef,
My take on it.....
In pfal, veepee taught that "The word takes the place of the absent Christ..."
In all veepee's pontificating......he relegated Jesus Christ as absent after pentecost, and that the written word was now center stage. Hence, it was always...."da verd, da verd, and nuttin' but da verd."
"traditional, protestant, evangelical type Christianity", has had at its core the idea of a "personal" Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ with whom a believer can have a relationship. In TWI, Jesus as Lord, and a relationship with him, was replaced by the Bible, and one's knowledge of it. Relationships with others in the body of Christ were relegated to not being very important as a consequence of this absent Christ doctrine, as well as the idea that he ain't God.
If you're confused, join the crowd. :huh: I been there, done that too. It took me a while to sort it all out.
to get to the Doctrinal forum, you have to scroll way down on the page that lists all Greasespot's forums. It's down in the dungeon, like at the bottom of the page of forums. Then, once you click on "Doctrinal," there is a list of different threads that you can explore. I think the one you are looking for says...."Jesus is here?"
I'm with Sudo - I was an early TWIer. I missed a lot of the things that came later too. Thank God - I consider myself blessed for that. When I was in the Corps I had to fight every damn day for the right just to spend time with my kid. And I had to buck every single leader at HDQ to do it. I thought they were all nincompoops - talk about the breeding pool. They didn't even want to give us parents 1 hour a day with our kids and God forbid if we didn't volunteer for every d*mn work detail that came up.
So I left study hall early every day, didn't run in the morning, depending on the need of my child I would attend meetings or not, if he was sick I'd stay with him. And one times when it was demanded that I leave my sick child in the trailer and come to a meeting I threw my "twig leader" out of my trailer, down the steps.... I know it sounds terrible but it was terrible times calling for terrible measures. They were snotty, hateful, insulting and STUPID. They told me God had called me to the Corps first and I told them that obviously God had called me to parenthood before the Corps - since I had my kid first.
I know I still sound a little belligerent but how could so many adults in an organization be so stupid as to the needs of children? This was in the early 70s and I was in my 20s. You would have thought they would have been smarter than a kid in their 20s. And just think we all put our lives in their hands. WOW - and I don't mean 'word over the world' either.
When I started working staff I was put in the fields at KIPP farm from sun up to sun down, plus was supposed to cook and clean and do laundry for my family PLUS clean up the 3 single mens rooms upstairs. That was the final straw for me. I told leadership to either put me in the field or put me in the home but I wasn't doing both anymore.
And I was NEVER paid for any of my work either. My husband drew a paycheck a year before I started working and when I started work we never made 1 cent more. When I went to VPW and asked I was told they paid according to family needs not individual pay. I asked him whatever happened to the thing about not restraining the ox....
I was told I had a bad attitude. Uhhhh, yeah!! So, we were kindly asked to leave HDQ. Thank you Jesus!!!! I moved and got out of the ministry then. That was enough for me. I had 4 years of personal ^#$*@ dealing with them BUT I have always been forever thankful the things God was able to teach me during those 6 years of my life. Even if they were stupid - God was gracious. So, I'm thankful.
Oh, I guess my first clue should have been when I was living in a way home and was told I had to go to fellwoship EVERY SINGLE NIGHT instead of spending time with my little boy. I didn't listen then either though!!! Who knew it was prevelant in the 'ministry'. And I never got into that wooden spoon thing, or dragging your kids around by their hair.
I know you are wondering how all this has to do with the 'missing Jesus' thing. But, if they had even had the christian thing WWJD maybe they would have thought SOMETHING
So much for Cyberworld - it took my post and put it somewhere besides the end of the line AND cut me off early - the cyberbums!!!!
To continue....
You'd think they would have been able to have a line of thought that bordered on sanity where children were concerned. I don't consider myself to be the brightest lightbulb in the batch (nor the dimmest) :blink: but I would think leadership should have been smarter than the 20 year olds!!!!
Gotta go - enough of this. But, yeah, I'm glad I missed the even more insanity TWI came to have. Sheesh.
Hi. I checked my email this afternoon and got this and thought I'd like to share it with someone. So, you're it.
Don't know who wrote it and I'm guessing the name isn't real, but this sure ministered
to moi, so I'll post it. Here goes:
I Know Where I Belong!!!!
Hi Friends,
Thanx for your posts and encouragement. Life has surely been a rollercoaster lately. Sitting in a boat of discouragement and despair isn't fun.
Today, I sought Jesus, and guess what? He was found. He took me into the very throneroom, and I would like to share with you what I saw, because it's not just a personal vision for me, it's for every child of God. What I am about to share it absolute truth.
I saw myself standing at the door, and I opened the door, and I was in rags. All my clothes were ripped etc. I opened the door and looked in...and I was standing in the doorway. I saw Jesus standing at the end of a red-carpet and He had the HUGEST smile on His face and motioned to me, to come to Him.So as I started walking in, this applause thundered and shook the whole room. I looked to each side of the room, and there were all the witnesses of heaven. All with huge grins, and applauding me as I walked in. I walked in with my head down, and just looked so ashamed. As I began to walk in, as I walked down the carpet, I was transformed. I slowly started seeing myself not slouching anymore, but standing straight, and my rags disappeared and I saw I was transformed. From a girl that walked in full of shame and rags, by the time I reached half way down the aisle, I was dressed in white. I was dressed as a bride, glowing and holding roses. Walking down the aisle to meet Jesus. I met Him at the end, and He just held me and wept with delight over me.
I am utterly speechless over what I have seen. He kept whispering to me, that I have been trying to *belong* in so many places. I've been trying to belong in having a *prophetic* ministry, I've been trying to belong in *relationships*. I have been trying to belong in making myself *beautiful*. I have been trying to belong in all these areas, and I realized, I don't belong anywhere but in the throneroom with Jesus. That is where I belong.So even though ministry has been ripped away, it seems a lot of my dreams have been ripped away, I belong with Jesus. In Jesus.
No matter what I, or we have done, Jesus accepts us, and love us. We can approach the throne boldly, because of His grace. He adores us. He truly adores us. He cares more about us, than what we can *do* or *perform* for Him.
So it looks like...Olivia could very well have been found?
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Sudo
Chef,
I don't know what it means either but the longer I'm out the less I can remember about TWI's terms. And something else.. they were always adding terms. "old wineskin"? That was one I didn't hear (I left about '87) and of course all the 'prevailing this' or 'prevailing that'. That was TWI II Martindale stuff. Happy ho-ho-relo?? That was after me too. The word Christmas was just fine when I was in.
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dmiller
Hey there Cool Chef. Perhaps others can explain it better than I, but here is my take on it.
Jesus was our Savior, Promised Seed, Passover, the Messiah, King, etc., etc., as taught by twi.
There is an old tape called THE RED THREAD where docvic shows how Jesus is the subject of every book of the bible from Genesis to Revelation. Romans 10:9-10 are the verses used for salvation, and docvic is famous for saying "Tell me what you think of Jesus, and I'll tell you how far you'll go in life" (something like that).
Twi taught all that, but that is where their relationship with Jesus ended (imo).
Once you got born again, it was up to YOU and YOUR believing. Oh sure -- pray to God for deliverance, but ignore Jesus who is sitting at His right hand with the job of interceeding for the saints.
The *Law of Believing* ~~~~~
working for saint and sinner alike was an evil, evil, twisted piece of logic.
The law of believing put your day to day situations firmly in your hands if you wanted deliverance, forget Jesus sitting at the throne waiting to hear your prayers. Jesus was absent because it was NOW up to you and your believing to *Git R Done*.
And the whole ABS fiasco fits right into this scenario as well. Works, works, works --- salvation was by grace, but dang -- if ya didn't work at it -- you wouldn't be worthy of celestial spit as lcm so poignantly pointed out so many years ago.
Jesus has no place in twi. They used His name as a jumping off point, but after that you had to look to the MOG or other leadership for direction. They were more tapped into the *things of God* than the Man sitting at the right hand of God Himself.
Thus the *Absent Christ*.
Twi wants total control, and doesn't want to play *second fiddle* to anyone. (IMO)
Like I said -- others can probably explain this better, but perhaps this will suffice for now. :)
David
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skyrider
Chef,
My take on it.....
In pfal, veepee taught that "The word takes the place of the absent Christ..."
In all veepee's pontificating......he relegated Jesus Christ as absent after pentecost, and that the written word was now center stage. Hence, it was always...."da verd, da verd, and nuttin' but da verd."
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markomalley
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ex10
chef
What sky said and..........
"traditional, protestant, evangelical type Christianity", has had at its core the idea of a "personal" Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ with whom a believer can have a relationship. In TWI, Jesus as Lord, and a relationship with him, was replaced by the Bible, and one's knowledge of it. Relationships with others in the body of Christ were relegated to not being very important as a consequence of this absent Christ doctrine, as well as the idea that he ain't God.
If you're confused, join the crowd. :huh: I been there, done that too. It took me a while to sort it all out.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
thank you all for the insight
thank you
but now another? how do i get to the doctrinal site?
thanks again
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ex10
chef
to get to the Doctrinal forum, you have to scroll way down on the page that lists all Greasespot's forums. It's down in the dungeon, like at the bottom of the page of forums. Then, once you click on "Doctrinal," there is a list of different threads that you can explore. I think the one you are looking for says...."Jesus is here?"
I hope this helps you.
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dmiller
Or --- you can click on the JESUS IS HERE link Mark provided, and that will get you right to the topic. :)
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ex10
smarty
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dmiller
Thankee! Mark works hard to see that we get the correct links in timely fashion.
I wuz jest makin sure he got his proper credit!!
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ex10
Yup, and posting klutzes like moi count on you guys!
(Big wink)
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dmiller
Ex10 -- you're not a klutz. Not by a long shot. :) ;)
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Edi
I'm with Sudo - I was an early TWIer. I missed a lot of the things that came later too. Thank God - I consider myself blessed for that. When I was in the Corps I had to fight every damn day for the right just to spend time with my kid. And I had to buck every single leader at HDQ to do it. I thought they were all nincompoops - talk about the breeding pool. They didn't even want to give us parents 1 hour a day with our kids and God forbid if we didn't volunteer for every d*mn work detail that came up.
So I left study hall early every day, didn't run in the morning, depending on the need of my child I would attend meetings or not, if he was sick I'd stay with him. And one times when it was demanded that I leave my sick child in the trailer and come to a meeting I threw my "twig leader" out of my trailer, down the steps.... I know it sounds terrible but it was terrible times calling for terrible measures. They were snotty, hateful, insulting and STUPID. They told me God had called me to the Corps first and I told them that obviously God had called me to parenthood before the Corps - since I had my kid first.
I know I still sound a little belligerent but how could so many adults in an organization be so stupid as to the needs of children? This was in the early 70s and I was in my 20s. You would have thought they would have been smarter than a kid in their 20s. And just think we all put our lives in their hands. WOW - and I don't mean 'word over the world' either.
When I started working staff I was put in the fields at KIPP farm from sun up to sun down, plus was supposed to cook and clean and do laundry for my family PLUS clean up the 3 single mens rooms upstairs. That was the final straw for me. I told leadership to either put me in the field or put me in the home but I wasn't doing both anymore.
And I was NEVER paid for any of my work either. My husband drew a paycheck a year before I started working and when I started work we never made 1 cent more. When I went to VPW and asked I was told they paid according to family needs not individual pay. I asked him whatever happened to the thing about not restraining the ox....
I was told I had a bad attitude. Uhhhh, yeah!! So, we were kindly asked to leave HDQ. Thank you Jesus!!!! I moved and got out of the ministry then. That was enough for me. I had 4 years of personal ^#$*@ dealing with them BUT I have always been forever thankful the things God was able to teach me during those 6 years of my life. Even if they were stupid - God was gracious. So, I'm thankful.
Oh, I guess my first clue should have been when I was living in a way home and was told I had to go to fellwoship EVERY SINGLE NIGHT instead of spending time with my little boy. I didn't listen then either though!!! Who knew it was prevelant in the 'ministry'. And I never got into that wooden spoon thing, or dragging your kids around by their hair.
I know you are wondering how all this has to do with the 'missing Jesus' thing. But, if they had even had the christian thing WWJD maybe they would have thought SOMETHING
So much for Cyberworld - it took my post and put it somewhere besides the end of the line AND cut me off early - the cyberbums!!!!
To continue....
You'd think they would have been able to have a line of thought that bordered on sanity where children were concerned. I don't consider myself to be the brightest lightbulb in the batch (nor the dimmest) :blink: but I would think leadership should have been smarter than the 20 year olds!!!!
Gotta go - enough of this. But, yeah, I'm glad I missed the even more insanity TWI came to have. Sheesh.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
thanks for that post edi
and thank you all for the info
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waterbuffalo
Dear Coolchef,
Hi. I checked my email this afternoon and got this and thought I'd like to share it with someone. So, you're it.
Don't know who wrote it and I'm guessing the name isn't real, but this sure ministered
to moi, so I'll post it. Here goes:
I Know Where I Belong!!!!
Hi Friends,
Thanx for your posts and encouragement. Life has surely been a rollercoaster lately. Sitting in a boat of discouragement and despair isn't fun.
Today, I sought Jesus, and guess what? He was found. He took me into the very throneroom, and I would like to share with you what I saw, because it's not just a personal vision for me, it's for every child of God. What I am about to share it absolute truth.
I saw myself standing at the door, and I opened the door, and I was in rags. All my clothes were ripped etc. I opened the door and looked in...and I was standing in the doorway. I saw Jesus standing at the end of a red-carpet and He had the HUGEST smile on His face and motioned to me, to come to Him.So as I started walking in, this applause thundered and shook the whole room. I looked to each side of the room, and there were all the witnesses of heaven. All with huge grins, and applauding me as I walked in. I walked in with my head down, and just looked so ashamed. As I began to walk in, as I walked down the carpet, I was transformed. I slowly started seeing myself not slouching anymore, but standing straight, and my rags disappeared and I saw I was transformed. From a girl that walked in full of shame and rags, by the time I reached half way down the aisle, I was dressed in white. I was dressed as a bride, glowing and holding roses. Walking down the aisle to meet Jesus. I met Him at the end, and He just held me and wept with delight over me.
I am utterly speechless over what I have seen. He kept whispering to me, that I have been trying to *belong* in so many places. I've been trying to belong in having a *prophetic* ministry, I've been trying to belong in *relationships*. I have been trying to belong in making myself *beautiful*. I have been trying to belong in all these areas, and I realized, I don't belong anywhere but in the throneroom with Jesus. That is where I belong.So even though ministry has been ripped away, it seems a lot of my dreams have been ripped away, I belong with Jesus. In Jesus.
No matter what I, or we have done, Jesus accepts us, and love us. We can approach the throne boldly, because of His grace. He adores us. He truly adores us. He cares more about us, than what we can *do* or *perform* for Him.
So it looks like...Olivia could very well have been found?
Blessings, Olivia
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
waterbuffalo
thanks that is nice
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waterbuffalo
I'm glad you like it. It's always nice to see you!
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