Another thought that cross my mind is if someone felt they really wanted/needed an apology from Craig, they could take the first step, and make an attempt to have a discussion with him and explain where/how they were hurt and see what Craig's response is.
To me, that is love... to reprove and correct.
The response from Craig might be surprising. Maybe he would show remorse.
The man is still alive, so now would be the time to confront him with this if someone feels the need to.
It`s an *inside* thing oldies... If lcm truly repented...he wouldn`t HAVE to be asked!
He would be so filled with compassion for the people he was reponsible for hurting that he would be BEGGING ...and seeking anyway within his power to ease the suffering and pain he personally is responsible for.
Like I said though....it takes the love of God abiding within you...the desire to heal ....
The only thing preventing this oh so simple but so powerfully healing action, would be pride and arrogance.
Another thought that cross my mind is if someone felt they really wanted/needed an apology from Craig, they could take the first step, and make an attempt to have a discussion with him and explain where/how they were hurt and see what Craig's response is.
I can see this as a viable option for some...
He (LCM) might be hard to find... I'd start out looking for someone "sitting on a park bench..."
It`s an *inside* thing oldies... If lcm truly repented...he wouldn`t HAVE to be asked!
Craig may or may not have repented, but the person who is still wounded on the inside who may need to hear from Craig's own mouth that he was wrong, would do good to try to contact the man and have a heart to heart discussion with him; ... as Craig may be totally oblivious to pain someone else may be experiencing on account of him...
Whatever Paul did for people after his conversion, it is definite that he pleased God. That's what's important. This idea that you have to apologize to every person you've ever offended is just another way of being conformed to this world. It gives the one demanding the apology control over the relationship. I personally don't want a forced or coerced apology from anyone. It's got to be their idea or it isn't genuine
I have not seen anyone here suggest the idea that a person should "have to apologize to every person you've ever offended". Maybe I missed it. But then again maybe you are distorting the argument just a bit. I don't see anyone here promoting a law of apology.
But I agree with you on one thing Johniam, a forced apology is worthless. When some has "demanded" an apology from me I have almost always refused to give it. "Demanding" an apology is generally an effort in futility.
Saying that an apology is the right thing to do, or a good thing, or that it might help -- is a lot different than making it a requirement or a law.
I bet that Paul probably "apologized" when he had opportunity, that's the kind of man I see described in the Bible.
Craig may or may not have repented, but the person who is still wounded on the inside who may need to hear from Craig's own mouth that he was wrong, would do good to try to contact the man and have a heart to heart discussion with him; ... as Craig may be totally oblivious to pain someone else may be experiencing on account of him...
Do you know how to contact him?
I'd certainly like a heart-to-heart with him. Honestly.
I knew him long before he was a big shot...and held both he and Donna in high esteem for a long, long time. I have some very good memories of both of them.
I still have both of their responses to my last letter to HQ...about the stuff going on in AK.
I would love to discuss things...with hindsight and all.
I want to know if either of them would ever help put those particular lives back together...help with some cash, some college funds and/or scholarships, help with some money for long-term counseling, help with setting some records straight...APOLOGIZING...you know...real, honest, human, Christian stuff.
Yeah...I'd vent my anger, too.
But ya know something? I've matured enough to know when venting my anger is done...and when the healing process can begin...if folks are willing and cooperative.
I'd certainly like a heart-to-heart with him. Honestly.
Sure, here is his phone number:
Just kidding.
I really don't know, but I assume he can be found if someone really wanted to.
Since you knew Donna, maybe you can call hq first and ask to speak with her, or ask her to forward a message to him, or else ask someone else in the Way of the USA to forward your message to him, if they know where he is?
Perhaps you can write a letter to the Way of the USA asking if it's possible to forward a letter to Craig?
I have no idea, I'm just throwing out suggestions.
Come to think of it, the comparison between Paul and LCM isn't a good one. Someone posted that.
I still don't think and that looking at Paul and what he did gives anyone direct instruction for what to do or not do in regards to "apologizing'. It's an issue of doing what's right in a situation. I just don't think that's hard to figure out. Some people may not give a hoot. Others may care deeply. The response should be commensurate with the need.
But one more point - I think the lack of response from the Way leadership in general isn't quite as "spiritual" as we may be making it out to be, good or bad. It's no doubt because of the past and present lawsuits, both settled and pending. If they take responsibility for something, personally or under their watch, they might be admitting liability. :blink: If they "apologized" it would mean something wrong was done. And we all know, nobody every did anything wrong there, or knew anything about anything and if they did, they surely didn't know it was wrong. Right?
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
5
14
12
5
Popular Days
Apr 17
49
Apr 18
15
Apr 19
1
Top Posters In This Topic
rascal 5 posts
oldiesman 14 posts
Belle 12 posts
Tom Strange 5 posts
Popular Days
Apr 17 2006
49 posts
Apr 18 2006
15 posts
Apr 19 2006
1 post
oldiesman
Another thought that cross my mind is if someone felt they really wanted/needed an apology from Craig, they could take the first step, and make an attempt to have a discussion with him and explain where/how they were hurt and see what Craig's response is.
To me, that is love... to reprove and correct.
The response from Craig might be surprising. Maybe he would show remorse.
The man is still alive, so now would be the time to confront him with this if someone feels the need to.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
It`s an *inside* thing oldies... If lcm truly repented...he wouldn`t HAVE to be asked!
He would be so filled with compassion for the people he was reponsible for hurting that he would be BEGGING ...and seeking anyway within his power to ease the suffering and pain he personally is responsible for.
Like I said though....it takes the love of God abiding within you...the desire to heal ....
The only thing preventing this oh so simple but so powerfully healing action, would be pride and arrogance.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CoolWaters
Does anybody know how many times Paul as Apostle had to flee for his life from the other Christians?
Paul was not automatically accepted...not by a long shot.
Didn't he and Peter go to blows at one point?
Or was this just stuff I was taught in piffle way back in '77...?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
I can see this as a viable option for some...
He (LCM) might be hard to find... I'd start out looking for someone "sitting on a park bench..."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CoolWaters
ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Craig may or may not have repented, but the person who is still wounded on the inside who may need to hear from Craig's own mouth that he was wrong, would do good to try to contact the man and have a heart to heart discussion with him; ... as Craig may be totally oblivious to pain someone else may be experiencing on account of him...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Goey
I have not seen anyone here suggest the idea that a person should "have to apologize to every person you've ever offended". Maybe I missed it. But then again maybe you are distorting the argument just a bit. I don't see anyone here promoting a law of apology.
But I agree with you on one thing Johniam, a forced apology is worthless. When some has "demanded" an apology from me I have almost always refused to give it. "Demanding" an apology is generally an effort in futility.
Saying that an apology is the right thing to do, or a good thing, or that it might help -- is a lot different than making it a requirement or a law.
I bet that Paul probably "apologized" when he had opportunity, that's the kind of man I see described in the Bible.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
There you go confusing us again OM... putting something profound out there like this! (and probably closer to the truth than any of us could imagine)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CoolWaters
Do you know how to contact him?
I'd certainly like a heart-to-heart with him. Honestly.
I knew him long before he was a big shot...and held both he and Donna in high esteem for a long, long time. I have some very good memories of both of them.
I still have both of their responses to my last letter to HQ...about the stuff going on in AK.
I would love to discuss things...with hindsight and all.
I want to know if either of them would ever help put those particular lives back together...help with some cash, some college funds and/or scholarships, help with some money for long-term counseling, help with setting some records straight...APOLOGIZING...you know...real, honest, human, Christian stuff.
Yeah...I'd vent my anger, too.
But ya know something? I've matured enough to know when venting my anger is done...and when the healing process can begin...if folks are willing and cooperative.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Sure, here is his phone number:
Just kidding.
I really don't know, but I assume he can be found if someone really wanted to.
Since you knew Donna, maybe you can call hq first and ask to speak with her, or ask her to forward a message to him, or else ask someone else in the Way of the USA to forward your message to him, if they know where he is?
Perhaps you can write a letter to the Way of the USA asking if it's possible to forward a letter to Craig?
I have no idea, I'm just throwing out suggestions.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
year2027
God first
Beloved All
God loves us all
Do we really know what was in the heart of Craig M ?
Was he miss lead by the true leaders the board of trustee's or did VPW have him so fooled he believed he was helping people?
Do we know every time he let lust get the best of him that he did not cry in his heart? nor do we know he did
The truth is we just do not know but all we know is our personal pain!
Now I have forgiven Craig M for my pain and I am over it but maybe you need time and that is ok but why not give Craig M time to be help my God
But this is just me and as for VPW he does not matter because he is past help he is dead but we must think about his children and watch what we say
I know most here will never forgive Craig M but if you talk about it less the pain becomes easier to deal with it
Now I can not tell any one what to do and do not want any one to think I am trying
Because is just how I feel about it
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
Link to comment
Share on other sites
johniam
quote: It`s an *inside* thing oldies... If lcm truly repented...he wouldn`t HAVE to be asked!
Don't you love it? She thinks she can read our minds and she expects us to read her's.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
What is that supposed to mean??
Link to comment
Share on other sites
socks
Come to think of it, the comparison between Paul and LCM isn't a good one. Someone posted that.
I still don't think and that looking at Paul and what he did gives anyone direct instruction for what to do or not do in regards to "apologizing'. It's an issue of doing what's right in a situation. I just don't think that's hard to figure out. Some people may not give a hoot. Others may care deeply. The response should be commensurate with the need.
But one more point - I think the lack of response from the Way leadership in general isn't quite as "spiritual" as we may be making it out to be, good or bad. It's no doubt because of the past and present lawsuits, both settled and pending. If they take responsibility for something, personally or under their watch, they might be admitting liability. :blink: If they "apologized" it would mean something wrong was done. And we all know, nobody every did anything wrong there, or knew anything about anything and if they did, they surely didn't know it was wrong. Right?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.