great, this sounds like another one of those "redeeming the times" type programs that I got to live under, ruled by a fascist minimog who controlled every second of my life with schedules and reports and I hadn't even signed up for anything.
now you can sign up for the micromanagement of your life by some nosey, power-hungry jerk so they can point out all the ways you're falling short because you scheduled a nap but cleaned your house instead.
Why can't the Lord and the ministry be served at the same time?
</snip>
this doesn't really work, OM. the definition of "the ministry" is different depending on whether you're inside TWI or outside. inside, every suggestion of leadership is a commandment of god. you don't serve "the ministry" by blindly obeying mog whims. christians are called to minister, which makes how they spend their time ministering their own business. ministry is separate and independent of TWI, and one thing I know is that doctrines of TWI and the people TWI called "ministers" crushed the souls of the faithful and choked the true ministries of a lot of good people. people who truly minister don't tend to stay inside TWI because TWI eventually flushes them out, or keeps them on the fringes and labels them troublemakers (they're the ones who are still my friends). frankly, I don't know how they can stomach it, but I know they have their reasons.
Eph 6:5 ¶ Servants, be obedient to them that are [your] masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
Eph 6:6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
Eph 6:7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
Folks with the commitment and mindset of the above can serve both at the same time. I think this is true of any corporation/group/ministry one may serve in, and not just twi, although I would include them also.
Eph 6:5 ¶ Servants, be obedient to them that are [your] masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
The little "snag" I see in this.. is da "ministry" is not my, or anyone elses, "master". I really don't think the *ministry* is to be served.
at the most, *they* are supposed to be SERVANTS.. maybe servants that turned egotistical, abusive, hateful.. full of pride and arrogance, but they are still- just servants. Servants that have lost sight of, and perhaps even the ability or inclination to perform their JOB. Kinda like corporate america, and the government, in general.
The ONLY difference I see between twi and the federal government.. with twi, the "voters" can't run rosie, donna, and crew out of office.
Many people did do this, Oldies. Many have served in pureness of heart and honestly believing they are serving God. It has led, as you know, to widespread abuse of that willingness.
And let's not forget, as you quote Eph 5, that the MoG (or perhaps WoG) is also a servant and also needs to serve with goodwill, from the heart.
I'd like to see some of the top leadership still at TWI serving as others: cleaning the bathrooms, peeling potatoes, hauling boxes around, shifting furniture. I wonder when in his term of office LCM ever did any of those things? When Rosalie last did any of those things?
Aren't leaders supposed to lead by example? Would they like to demonstrate their pureness of heart in this type of service?
I wonder when any of the top leadership did this:
by witnessing the truth we know to those who hunger and thirst after righteousness
Sure they will say they do all the other things. Do they get out there and witness - to those who are not already righteous in Christ (=the regular congregation)? I mean, serving by witnessing in the mall, or door knocking?
Same deal with twi. one who works for twi has made them their master according to the flesh.
and in my opinion, that is as far as it POSSIBLY can go. Now, if it were a *real* spiritual kinda organization, there would be some REASONABLE accountability as an EMPLOYEE, but staff should be a PARTNERSHIP. For some, that is what it may have been once, long ago.
You may disagree, but dredging up "volunteers" to profit and further the organization, as a DEBT- one seventh of one's time, and a minimum of one tenth of one's income, goes way over the line. At least the way I think.
I really think the organization supposedly exists to serve, not to be served.
The few servants on the top just turned vile and reprehensible.. greedy, arrogant.. hateful, insolent..
loy typified what was and is really wrong in da supposed *ministry*.. when he refused to do his supposed "god given" job, and the abundant sharing started drying up, and he wasn't being "served" properly, he threw a nasty little tantrum..
"A conflict of interests arises when anyone has two duties which conflict."
"Self-policing of any group is also a conflict of interests. If any organization, such as a corporation or government bureaucracy, is asked to eliminate unethical behavior within their own group, it may be in their interest in the short run to eliminate the appearance of unethical behavior, rather than the behavior itself, by keeping any ethical breaches hidden, instead of exposing and correcting them. An exception occurs when the ethical breach is already known by the public. In that case, it could be in the group's interest to end the ethical problem to which the public has knowledge, but keep remaining breaches hidden."
The same smugness, insolence, arrogance and egotism has seeded itself in lotsa offshoots as well. Like DWBH says, they inherit their ancestor's spiritual DNA..
look at the new "sewers" endeavor. I found a few honest questions and inquiry answered with the same insolence, arrogance.. egotism.. "grrr, an *elder* oughta not ask questions like that.. who do you think you are?"
I say it's time for the "body of christ" to terminate these raging lunatic's employment..
if one works for a corporation the corporation is "your master according to the flesh".
Same deal with twi. one who works for twi has made them their master according to the flesh.
Accordingly, those whose heart and mindset are in alignment with Ephesians are doing the will of God, even in twi.
everyone in twi must make twi their master, and you hit it right on the head when you say "according to the flesh", only it's without pay or other compensation. it's not optional. twi is not "the ministry". serving twi doesn't mean you serve the ministry. it just means you serve a corporation with its own agenda, which you would now have to prove is exactly, without exception, an agenda of serving the lord rather than the flesh. there's just way too much evidence of the flesh being the standard of rule and practice in twi to assume that twi is committed to serve the lord.
I'm not saying there aren't ministers in twi. I maintain, however, that twi tends to choke the life out of their followers' ability to minister.
I didn't say that twi was serving the Lord thats actually beside my point.
I said that those whose heart and mindset are in alignment with Ephesians can serve the Lord and twi at the same time even while serving in twi.
Even if one views twi like a corporation and not a ministry, the "good will doing service as to the Lord and not unto men" is performed by the participant who has that mindset, that is where the will of God can be demonstrated whether one serves in twi or in Dunkin Donuts.
Perhaps some believe that it is impossible for those who serve in twi to serve the Lord, and that is ones own opinion. I don't necessarily agree with that opinion.
Even if one views twi like a corporation and not a ministry, the "good will doing service as to the Lord and not unto men" is performed by the participant who has that mindset, that is where the will of God can be demonstrated whether one serves in twi or in Dunkin Donuts.
Dunkin' Donuts does not have a demonstrated history of functioning in a manner that is contrary to God's Word. TWI does. Hence, there is a conflict of interests. The analogy is weak, at best.
I didn't say that twi was serving the Lord thats actually beside my point.
I said that those whose heart and mindset are in alignment with Ephesians can serve the Lord and twi at the same time even while serving in twi.
</snip>
ok, now your meaning is clear. back in your original post you seemed to be using "the ministry" and "twi" as synonymous terms. in fact, reading your post without the assumption of synonymous use leads to illogical conclustions, as "serving the ministry" IS the same thing as "serving the lord" if you recognize that "the ministry" is a calling to serve the lord and therefore independent of any organized "ministry" or church. your usage of "the ministry" confused the issue, since clearly the meaning of "the ministry" given to all christians cannot be a single corporation as your usage in your original post implied.
and anyway, none of that reasoning gets around the issue of compulsory service to twi, the corporate monster (regardless of whether any of the program's stupid requirements allows anyone time to do any actual ministering).
Once in my little splinter group the same elder that later fired me from my job after they moved my wife and son out of my house told me about an idea to help the community, well, specifically the town that was nearest their location. They were going to train chosen people to get involved with local government activities in the town. This elders own words were something along the lines of,"We could make things SO MUCH BETTER!"
My gut reaction to this was that they were stupid and prideful to automatically assume that they could improve things for the local town that SO DESPERATELY NEEDED THEIR HELP. By this time I was operating with a fairly clear picture of how my splinter leader would use an incursion into local government affairs to expand his influence with his loyal disciples. Frankly, I thought that either the locals would laugh them out of involvement when they saw how my splinter group operated or, eventually my splinter leader would slowly turn town life into a living he!! for the residents, perhaps over five or ten years.
I answered this elder after he finished telling me about their intentions,"GEE, MAYBE WE COULD ACTUALLY SERVE GOD INSTEAD." hehehe I could see that I burst his bubble, their plans never materialized. Frankly by this time I thought the town may need protecting from my splinter group leader.
My former splinter group members would think that they would have been serving God by serving the intentions of the leader. But even little old me could burst their bubble, I don't think they'd stand a chance of thinking that if they were allowed to live outside of their super restrictive, oppressive atmosphere.
I still worry that they could fool wayfers and former wayfers!
(edited for grammar)
P.S. I really miss the "Shout out section." I've gotta go now, BYE.
Dunkin' Donuts does not have a demonstrated history of functioning in a manner that is contrary to God's Word. TWI does. Hence, there is a conflict of interests. The analogy is weak, at best.
I disagree.
I think its possible for a person or persons who work for/in twi to serve the Lord with gladness if they have the heart and mindset of those scriptures in Colossians and Ephesians that I previously quoted.
Just as it is possible to serve the Lord with gladness in any other occupation with that same mindset (which is not limited to, but may include twi folks).
I think that twi's demonstrated history is irrelevant to that point.
For example, how about folks who work for the federal government?
How about someone who fellowships in twi, who also may work for the federal government?
Does working for the federal government (with its track record of functioning in a manner that is contrary to God's Word) disqualify someone, in or out of twi, from serving the Lord with gladness?
I think its possible for a person or persons who work for/in twi to serve the Lord with gladness if they have the heart and mindset of those scriptures in Colossians and Ephesians that I previously quoted.
Just as it is possible to serve the Lord with gladness in any other occupation with that same mindset (which is not limited to, but may include twi folks).
I think that twi's demonstrated history is irrelevant to that point.
For example, how about folks who work for the federal government?
How about someone who fellowships in twi, who also may work for the federal government?
Does working for the federal government (with its track record of functioning in a manner that is contrary to God's Word) disqualify someone, in or out of twi, from serving the Lord with gladness?
All moot points.
The basic purpose of The Way is, and has always been, to generate an income base (and all its peripheral "benefits") for those at the uppermost levels. Much of this was done through the deliberate exploitation of well meaning people whose intent was to serve God. Have the federal government or Dunkin Donuts, as employers, represented themselves as altruistic entities? You simply can't serve The Lord and serve an organization that deliberately abuses his people at the same time without an obvious conflict of interests. It's like being a doctor in a medical facility that deliberately harms its patients for its own profit and benefit. Which comes first, the Hippocratic Oath or the welfare of the facility?
I think its possible for a person or persons who work for/in twi to serve the Lord with gladness if they have the heart and mindset of those scriptures in Colossians and Ephesians that I previously quoted.
Just as it is possible to serve the Lord with gladness in any other occupation with that same mindset (which is not limited to, but may include twi folks).
I think that twi's demonstrated history is irrelevant to that point.
</snip>
your analogy has continued to break down, OM. you're now comparing obligatory service to twi via their new "volunteer" program (which was part of the original topic of this thread) with compensated employment with a corporation/agency.
I can bring the right attitude to my job wherever that may be, as they are my masters in the flesh which is absolutely a different kettle of fish according to the bible.
that still does not make obligatory servitude to twi synonymous with serving "the ministry", nor does it make twi's history irrelevant.
Of course someone can be serving God while working at Dunkin' Doughnuts or the Federal gov't.
But I don't believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that Dunkin' Doughnuts, the Federal gov't, or most, if not all of our employers claim to be representing God.
I concede that it is not impossible for an individual to be serving God while a member of TWI, but the initial point was that according to TWI, serving God is serving TWI. The corollary of that statement being that you cannot serve God without serving TWI.
I think its possible for a person or persons who work for/in twi to serve the Lord with gladness if they have the heart and mindset of those scriptures in Colossians and Ephesians that I previously quoted.
Just as it is possible to serve the Lord with gladness in any other occupation with that same mindset (which is not limited to, but may include twi folks).
I think that twi's demonstrated history is irrelevant to that point.
For example, how about folks who work for the federal government?
How about someone who fellowships in twi, who also may work for the federal government?
Does working for the federal government (with its track record of functioning in a manner that is contrary to God's Word) disqualify someone, in or out of twi, from serving the Lord with gladness?
Did you give that post any thought before you posted it? Honestly.
Our armed forces, who protect our country, answer to The Commander and Chief, and also "work" for the Federal Government. They're willing to die for your freedom and because YOU have a problem with the way the government works, you call them all ungodly.
I take great exception to your faulty analogy. It is an insult to our military and our government - which is still the most godly government on this planet, like it or not.
Your logic has been weighed in the balance and found wanting.
The point is whether or not the federal government, or twi, or any other group, makes or has made a godly or ungodly decision, has no bearing on whether an individual serving and working and associating therein may serve the Lord with gladness working therein. They can. To portray otherwise is way too extreme, Kool Aid territory.
Can a person serving the U.S. military and the country serve the Lord with gladness at the same time? I certainly do think so, even though they may be killing people. That was a good response, ChasUFarley, thanks.
OM, now you're making sense. when you were using twi's definition of "the ministry" you weren't.
there are still good people who choose for whatever reason to stay with twi. the ones I personally know don't have any respect for the BOT, however, because they recognize the organization is corrupt. they're far less likely to fall for this new volunteer program than the people who believe that twi is "the ministry" and that the BOT actually care about the people drinking the koolaid.
But even if someone decides to go with the twi program, they still may serve the Lord with gladness depending on their heart and commitment and mindset in that program. That was my original opinion and I'm sticking with it.
I believe the key to understanding the apparent contradiction here lies in understanding how TWI defines "Serving The Lord with Gladness." I understand what that means in a general sort of sense but what does that mean within the confines of TWI doctrine? Does it mean recruiting people to join their ranks, take their classes, offer up free labor, provide financial support? That would seem to present a dilemma if it is the case. Maybe someone who is still "in" could offer some detail addressing this question.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
9
10
8
8
Popular Days
Oct 14
18
Sep 19
11
Sep 20
9
Oct 17
9
Top Posters In This Topic
oldiesman 9 posts
Twinky 10 posts
potato 8 posts
JeffSjo 8 posts
Popular Days
Oct 14 2008
18 posts
Sep 19 2008
11 posts
Sep 20 2008
9 posts
Oct 17 2008
9 posts
potato
great, this sounds like another one of those "redeeming the times" type programs that I got to live under, ruled by a fascist minimog who controlled every second of my life with schedules and reports and I hadn't even signed up for anything.
now you can sign up for the micromanagement of your life by some nosey, power-hungry jerk so they can point out all the ways you're falling short because you scheduled a nap but cleaned your house instead.
bleah, I'm so glad to be away from that stuff.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
potato
this doesn't really work, OM. the definition of "the ministry" is different depending on whether you're inside TWI or outside. inside, every suggestion of leadership is a commandment of god. you don't serve "the ministry" by blindly obeying mog whims. christians are called to minister, which makes how they spend their time ministering their own business. ministry is separate and independent of TWI, and one thing I know is that doctrines of TWI and the people TWI called "ministers" crushed the souls of the faithful and choked the true ministries of a lot of good people. people who truly minister don't tend to stay inside TWI because TWI eventually flushes them out, or keeps them on the fringes and labels them troublemakers (they're the ones who are still my friends). frankly, I don't know how they can stomach it, but I know they have their reasons.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Eph 6:5 ¶ Servants, be obedient to them that are [your] masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
Eph 6:6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
Eph 6:7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
Folks with the commitment and mindset of the above can serve both at the same time. I think this is true of any corporation/group/ministry one may serve in, and not just twi, although I would include them also.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
The little "snag" I see in this.. is da "ministry" is not my, or anyone elses, "master". I really don't think the *ministry* is to be served.
at the most, *they* are supposed to be SERVANTS.. maybe servants that turned egotistical, abusive, hateful.. full of pride and arrogance, but they are still- just servants. Servants that have lost sight of, and perhaps even the ability or inclination to perform their JOB. Kinda like corporate america, and the government, in general.
The ONLY difference I see between twi and the federal government.. with twi, the "voters" can't run rosie, donna, and crew out of office.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Many people did do this, Oldies. Many have served in pureness of heart and honestly believing they are serving God. It has led, as you know, to widespread abuse of that willingness.
And let's not forget, as you quote Eph 5, that the MoG (or perhaps WoG) is also a servant and also needs to serve with goodwill, from the heart.
I'd like to see some of the top leadership still at TWI serving as others: cleaning the bathrooms, peeling potatoes, hauling boxes around, shifting furniture. I wonder when in his term of office LCM ever did any of those things? When Rosalie last did any of those things?
Aren't leaders supposed to lead by example? Would they like to demonstrate their pureness of heart in this type of service?
I wonder when any of the top leadership did this:
Sure they will say they do all the other things. Do they get out there and witness - to those who are not already righteous in Christ (=the regular congregation)? I mean, serving by witnessing in the mall, or door knocking?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
if one works for a corporation the corporation is "your master according to the flesh".
Same deal with twi. one who works for twi has made them their master according to the flesh.
Accordingly, those whose heart and mindset are in alignment with Ephesians are doing the will of God, even in twi.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
and in my opinion, that is as far as it POSSIBLY can go. Now, if it were a *real* spiritual kinda organization, there would be some REASONABLE accountability as an EMPLOYEE, but staff should be a PARTNERSHIP. For some, that is what it may have been once, long ago.
You may disagree, but dredging up "volunteers" to profit and further the organization, as a DEBT- one seventh of one's time, and a minimum of one tenth of one's income, goes way over the line. At least the way I think.
I really think the organization supposedly exists to serve, not to be served.
The few servants on the top just turned vile and reprehensible.. greedy, arrogant.. hateful, insolent..
loy typified what was and is really wrong in da supposed *ministry*.. when he refused to do his supposed "god given" job, and the abundant sharing started drying up, and he wasn't being "served" properly, he threw a nasty little tantrum..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Conflict of Interests
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_of_interest
"A conflict of interests arises when anyone has two duties which conflict."
"Self-policing of any group is also a conflict of interests. If any organization, such as a corporation or government bureaucracy, is asked to eliminate unethical behavior within their own group, it may be in their interest in the short run to eliminate the appearance of unethical behavior, rather than the behavior itself, by keeping any ethical breaches hidden, instead of exposing and correcting them. An exception occurs when the ethical breach is already known by the public. In that case, it could be in the group's interest to end the ethical problem to which the public has knowledge, but keep remaining breaches hidden."
-----------------------------------------------------------
You Gotta Serve Somebody
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqxW6E24Jh8
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
The same smugness, insolence, arrogance and egotism has seeded itself in lotsa offshoots as well. Like DWBH says, they inherit their ancestor's spiritual DNA..
look at the new "sewers" endeavor. I found a few honest questions and inquiry answered with the same insolence, arrogance.. egotism.. "grrr, an *elder* oughta not ask questions like that.. who do you think you are?"
I say it's time for the "body of christ" to terminate these raging lunatic's employment..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
potato
everyone in twi must make twi their master, and you hit it right on the head when you say "according to the flesh", only it's without pay or other compensation. it's not optional. twi is not "the ministry". serving twi doesn't mean you serve the ministry. it just means you serve a corporation with its own agenda, which you would now have to prove is exactly, without exception, an agenda of serving the lord rather than the flesh. there's just way too much evidence of the flesh being the standard of rule and practice in twi to assume that twi is committed to serve the lord.
I'm not saying there aren't ministers in twi. I maintain, however, that twi tends to choke the life out of their followers' ability to minister.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
I didn't say that twi was serving the Lord thats actually beside my point.
I said that those whose heart and mindset are in alignment with Ephesians can serve the Lord and twi at the same time even while serving in twi.
Even if one views twi like a corporation and not a ministry, the "good will doing service as to the Lord and not unto men" is performed by the participant who has that mindset, that is where the will of God can be demonstrated whether one serves in twi or in Dunkin Donuts.
Perhaps some believe that it is impossible for those who serve in twi to serve the Lord, and that is ones own opinion. I don't necessarily agree with that opinion.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Dunkin' Donuts does not have a demonstrated history of functioning in a manner that is contrary to God's Word. TWI does. Hence, there is a conflict of interests. The analogy is weak, at best.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
potato
ok, now your meaning is clear. back in your original post you seemed to be using "the ministry" and "twi" as synonymous terms. in fact, reading your post without the assumption of synonymous use leads to illogical conclustions, as "serving the ministry" IS the same thing as "serving the lord" if you recognize that "the ministry" is a calling to serve the lord and therefore independent of any organized "ministry" or church. your usage of "the ministry" confused the issue, since clearly the meaning of "the ministry" given to all christians cannot be a single corporation as your usage in your original post implied.
and anyway, none of that reasoning gets around the issue of compulsory service to twi, the corporate monster (regardless of whether any of the program's stupid requirements allows anyone time to do any actual ministering).
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
Once in my little splinter group the same elder that later fired me from my job after they moved my wife and son out of my house told me about an idea to help the community, well, specifically the town that was nearest their location. They were going to train chosen people to get involved with local government activities in the town. This elders own words were something along the lines of,"We could make things SO MUCH BETTER!"
My gut reaction to this was that they were stupid and prideful to automatically assume that they could improve things for the local town that SO DESPERATELY NEEDED THEIR HELP. By this time I was operating with a fairly clear picture of how my splinter leader would use an incursion into local government affairs to expand his influence with his loyal disciples. Frankly, I thought that either the locals would laugh them out of involvement when they saw how my splinter group operated or, eventually my splinter leader would slowly turn town life into a living he!! for the residents, perhaps over five or ten years.
I answered this elder after he finished telling me about their intentions,"GEE, MAYBE WE COULD ACTUALLY SERVE GOD INSTEAD." hehehe I could see that I burst his bubble, their plans never materialized. Frankly by this time I thought the town may need protecting from my splinter group leader.
My former splinter group members would think that they would have been serving God by serving the intentions of the leader. But even little old me could burst their bubble, I don't think they'd stand a chance of thinking that if they were allowed to live outside of their super restrictive, oppressive atmosphere.
I still worry that they could fool wayfers and former wayfers!
(edited for grammar)
P.S. I really miss the "Shout out section." I've gotta go now, BYE.
Edited by JeffSjoLink to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
I disagree.
I think its possible for a person or persons who work for/in twi to serve the Lord with gladness if they have the heart and mindset of those scriptures in Colossians and Ephesians that I previously quoted.
Just as it is possible to serve the Lord with gladness in any other occupation with that same mindset (which is not limited to, but may include twi folks).
I think that twi's demonstrated history is irrelevant to that point.
For example, how about folks who work for the federal government?
How about someone who fellowships in twi, who also may work for the federal government?
Does working for the federal government (with its track record of functioning in a manner that is contrary to God's Word) disqualify someone, in or out of twi, from serving the Lord with gladness?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
All moot points.
The basic purpose of The Way is, and has always been, to generate an income base (and all its peripheral "benefits") for those at the uppermost levels. Much of this was done through the deliberate exploitation of well meaning people whose intent was to serve God. Have the federal government or Dunkin Donuts, as employers, represented themselves as altruistic entities? You simply can't serve The Lord and serve an organization that deliberately abuses his people at the same time without an obvious conflict of interests. It's like being a doctor in a medical facility that deliberately harms its patients for its own profit and benefit. Which comes first, the Hippocratic Oath or the welfare of the facility?
Hippocratic Oath
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath
Link to comment
Share on other sites
potato
your analogy has continued to break down, OM. you're now comparing obligatory service to twi via their new "volunteer" program (which was part of the original topic of this thread) with compensated employment with a corporation/agency.
I can bring the right attitude to my job wherever that may be, as they are my masters in the flesh which is absolutely a different kettle of fish according to the bible.
that still does not make obligatory servitude to twi synonymous with serving "the ministry", nor does it make twi's history irrelevant.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
Oldies:
Of course someone can be serving God while working at Dunkin' Doughnuts or the Federal gov't.
But I don't believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that Dunkin' Doughnuts, the Federal gov't, or most, if not all of our employers claim to be representing God.
I concede that it is not impossible for an individual to be serving God while a member of TWI, but the initial point was that according to TWI, serving God is serving TWI. The corollary of that statement being that you cannot serve God without serving TWI.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ChasUFarley
Did you give that post any thought before you posted it? Honestly.
Our armed forces, who protect our country, answer to The Commander and Chief, and also "work" for the Federal Government. They're willing to die for your freedom and because YOU have a problem with the way the government works, you call them all ungodly.
I take great exception to your faulty analogy. It is an insult to our military and our government - which is still the most godly government on this planet, like it or not.
Your logic has been weighed in the balance and found wanting.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
The point is whether or not the federal government, or twi, or any other group, makes or has made a godly or ungodly decision, has no bearing on whether an individual serving and working and associating therein may serve the Lord with gladness working therein. They can. To portray otherwise is way too extreme, Kool Aid territory.
Can a person serving the U.S. military and the country serve the Lord with gladness at the same time? I certainly do think so, even though they may be killing people. That was a good response, ChasUFarley, thanks.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
potato
OM, now you're making sense. when you were using twi's definition of "the ministry" you weren't.
there are still good people who choose for whatever reason to stay with twi. the ones I personally know don't have any respect for the BOT, however, because they recognize the organization is corrupt. they're far less likely to fall for this new volunteer program than the people who believe that twi is "the ministry" and that the BOT actually care about the people drinking the koolaid.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
But even if someone decides to go with the twi program, they still may serve the Lord with gladness depending on their heart and commitment and mindset in that program. That was my original opinion and I'm sticking with it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
I believe the key to understanding the apparent contradiction here lies in understanding how TWI defines "Serving The Lord with Gladness." I understand what that means in a general sort of sense but what does that mean within the confines of TWI doctrine? Does it mean recruiting people to join their ranks, take their classes, offer up free labor, provide financial support? That would seem to present a dilemma if it is the case. Maybe someone who is still "in" could offer some detail addressing this question.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
FreeFromCults
It still boils down to Same S**t, Different Day.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.