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Why was Satan in the Garden of Eden? Rate Topic: ***** 1 Votes

#1 User is offline   RottieGrrrl Icon

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 01:37 PM

I am trying to do some basic bible study here, and I don't know if this question has been answered before, but can somebody give me an idea of WHY the devil was in the garden of Eden in the first place? And if anyone is on a roll here, why did he take on the form of a snake, and then why would God curse the serpent? And if the serpent didn't crawl on his belly before he was cursed, what the hell (scuse the pun) was he doing before? walking on 4 legs? Seriously, I know this is not all answered in the Word, but does anyone have any ideas?
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Posted 25 May 2013 - 01:49 PM

There are common themes that run through all genres of mythology, such as resurrection, afterlife, nemeses, etc. Seth recently started a thread related to this subject in the open forum. (HERE) Perhaps the answer lies in another religion's version of the event. Of course, one must "get passed" the idea of inerrancy when contemplating such materials.
They say that there's a perfect chord
That David played and it pleased The Lord.
But, you don't really care for music,
Do you?
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#3 User is offline   RottieGrrrl Icon

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 02:09 PM

With all due respect, I want the Word's answer to this, and people who have studied the Word of God. I am a believer in the Lord Jesus, and would like an answer relating to Genesis. Just to make myself clear

Wordwolf?I did not want to call your name, but him or anybody who has a knowledge and belief in the true Word of God please? :)/>/>

This post has been edited by RottieGrrrl: 25 May 2013 - 02:11 PM

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#4 User is offline   waysider Icon

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 02:33 PM

THIS author has penned several works related to the subject, though I haven't personally read any of them.
They say that there's a perfect chord
That David played and it pleased The Lord.
But, you don't really care for music,
Do you?
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#5 User is offline   WordWolf Icon

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 03:03 PM

Give me 12 hours-I'm on the run this moment.
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#6 User is offline   RottieGrrrl Icon

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 04:18 PM

View PostWordWolf, on 25 May 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

Give me 12 hours-I'm on the run this moment.


LOL! I KNEW I could count on the WOLF! :)/>

This post has been edited by RottieGrrrl: 25 May 2013 - 04:21 PM

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#7 User is offline   Human without the bean Icon

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 08:42 PM

View PostRottieGrrrl, on 25 May 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

WHY the devil was in the garden of Eden in the first place? anyone have any ideas?


I think I can help here with part of your question. The devil was more subtle than any beast that God made. Gen. 3.1
His nature was slippery, that of a snake.

The devil was in the garden laying in wait for any attempt to win his lordship over Adam and Eve. Satan was there to disguise himself from showing his true nature and to use his treachery and trick Adam and Eve into betraying God.

When he succeeded, man lost his place in the garden. Satan became the head of this world, 2 Corin. 4:4 the title man held before the fall.

We know the nature of the devil is to steal, kill, and destroy. Those are not very pleasant attributes are they? A thief, a murderer, and a destroyer.
Somebody exploded an H-bomb today, but it wasn't anybody I knew.

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#8 User is offline   WordWolf Icon

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 09:29 PM

I won't disagree with anything H w/o B just said,
but I think a different question was meant,
so I'll try to cover as much ground as I can as briefly as I can.


Ok, what are the questions?

"1. can somebody give me an idea of WHY the devil was in the garden of Eden in the first place?
2) why did he take on the form of a snake?
3) why would God curse the serpent?
if the serpent didn't crawl on his belly before he was cursed, what the hell (scuse the pun) was he doing before? walking on 4 legs?"

Ok, I can answer 2-4 together.

This is all IMHO, as I understand it.

Zephaniah 3:3
Her princes within her are roaring lions, Her judges are wolves at evening; They leave nothing for the morning.

(Personally, I think "wolves" rather than "jackals" is poor translating on behalf of lazy
Eurocentric translators who never wondered how wolves ended up in deserts and so on,
but that's drifting off-topic.)

Here we see that people can be addressed, metaphorically, as animals whose supposed
attributes match those of the people.

To this day, we might call an untrustworthy person a "snake-in-the-grass" or a "sidewinder"
or the like.

The former Lucifer, the former lightbearer, the former bright and morning star,
was treacherous and sneaky, traits attributed to serpents.
If someone lies a lot, I might consider calling him "Rug."

Now, The Serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made.
He wasn't LITERALLY a beast of the field, LITERALLY a limbless animal.


Genesis 3:13c"
“The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
Genesis 3:14 The Lord God said to The Serpent,

“Because you have done this,
Cursed are you more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you will go,
And dust you will eat
All the days of your life;"


That wasn't a literal animal God was referring to- but a sneaky, conniving being.
satan, the accuser, was cursed more than any cattle or beast of the field,
and-although he vaunted himself up as the greatest and highest,
he was humbled and made low.


That had nothing to do, in and of itself, with any actual animal.
That's what was said to "The Serpent", aka satan, etc.

Why does it all sound like an actual serpent?
God needed to explain it to people in ways people could understand.

Jesus taught with parables mentioning lillies, grass, birds, and so on-
things people were familiar with, imagery they could relate to.
So, the accuser was likened TO a serpent, a snake-in-the-grass,
and his punishments were likewise compared to the activities
and reputations of a LITERAL snake in the grass.

So, that's what the deal is with "serpent"-it's an extended metaphor.

I'm not a LITERAL wolf, either. :)


I'll get back to you on the first question within a few hours.
=====================
"...I have tried to keep memory alive, I have tried to fight those who would forget. Because if we forget, we are guilty, we are accomplices...
I swore never to be silent whenever, wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation...
Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented."
-Elie Wiesel, Nobel Peace Prize Acceptance Speech, December 10, 1986.
=====================
"Justice, like lightning, ever should appear
To few men's ruin, but to all men's fear.
Of mortal justice if thou scorn the rod,
Believe and tremble, thou art judged of God."-
Milo Sweetman.
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#9 User is offline   WordWolf Icon

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 01:03 AM

James 1:12-14
12 Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.


===============================
What was satan doing in the Garden?

That question may mean a few things-I will try to touch on a few of them.

Again, all of this is AFAIK, IMHO.
The being known as satan was originally the right-hand "man" of The Creator.
Full of pride and conceit in his own (created) greatness,
he decided he should be exalted about all other "angels" and should get
worship that was going to his Creator.

So, he convinced 1/3 of the "angels" to rebel, and led a ridiculous rebellion
in heaven. His forces lost to those of Michael, and were cast down to
THE EARTH.

After this come the "days of creation" of Genesis 1.
(Some believe they were needed as a result of the war in heaven.
Myself, I think the evidence shows that something struck the earth and
destroyed the ecosystem, triggering a major extinction event and
requiring the "days of creation" of Genesis 1.)

Nothing indicates this has changed when Man arrives, "Adam" and "Eve."
Adam was given dominion over the Earth- in effect, making Adam
"god of Earth" subordinate to God Almighty.


Physically, satan arrived to Earth and never left it.
So, that's the answer to how satan got to Earth.


As to what he was doing "in the garden of Eden",
that's a different matter.
satan knew that he thought he deserved worship and to be God.
Adam had a position somewhat like a sample of what satan wanted.
So, satan set out to steal Adam's office which he felt was
rightfully his.

He succeeded. He's later referred to as "god of this world",
and has authority over the kingdoms of the world, and their
glory.

When Adam sinned, he lost his connection to God, AND he lost
his Office and title. Afterwards, we know satan has it, and
there is nothing to indicate anyone else had it between that.
The logical conclusion is to at least speculate if Adam lost
it and satan got it at the same moment.


So, that's the answer to "why did satan want to be there?"

Was there something else?
I've given some thought to satan's faulty logic chains
in the past,
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#10 User is offline   Steve Lortz Icon

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 07:33 AM

I have to defer to WordWolf's findings regarding the theological significance of the serpent in the garden. I certainly haven't thought them through to the extent he has, but I came across some interesting supplementary considerations in a book called The Seven Pillars of Creation by William P. Brown. In the book, Brown examines seven different accounts of creation given in the Old Testament, two accounts in Genesis 1-3, and the accounts in Job 38-41, Psalm 104, Proverbs 8:22-31 and sections from Ecclesiates and Isaiah 40-50. All of them have major differences from each other.

At one level of interpretation, the differences in the accounts could be looked at as contradictions, but at another, they can be regarded as alternate viewpoints that give us a multi-dimensional understanding. One thing you realize when you look at all seven accounts together is that God created creation because HE LOVES WHAT HE CREATED! He created Leviathan TO PLAY WITH!

One thing I had to come to grips with while reading The Seven Pillars of Creation was the truth that NO part of the Bible was EVER written in a vacuum. How did these particular stories come into the collection? I think they go back to the days of Abraham, when this particular group of people was wandering around with a lot of time to kill. They told the stories they had learned in Mesopotamia before they set out. It was ALL oral for centuries. The Israelites picked up stories from the people around them, in Egypt and later in Canaan. As the Israelites told these stories, they tweaked them to put their own spins on them. When we view the Bible as being God-breathed, we have to realize that His breathing was as much... or even MORE... in these tweakings than in the later writing. In the religions that the Israelites came out of, there were serpents who guarded trees of knowledge. The knowledge was highly treasured and the serpents were revered guardians. People worshiped the serpents in order to get the knowledge. The Israelite religion turned becoming as smart as a god (in order to manipulate the god) from being the wonderful thing it was in the religions around them into the original sin!

Love,
Steve

This post has been edited by Steve Lortz: 26 May 2013 - 07:35 AM

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#11 User is offline   waysider Icon

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 07:55 AM

Why was he in the garden?

Maybe he was waiting for a bus. All that slithering can make a fella tired.
They say that there's a perfect chord
That David played and it pleased The Lord.
But, you don't really care for music,
Do you?
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#12 User is offline   RottieGrrrl Icon

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 09:43 AM

You guys, this is freaking FASCINATING. I'm going to take awhile here getting my Word and digesting this. Thanks for the homework for today! Love it! :)
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#13 User is offline   RottieGrrrl Icon

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 09:52 AM

View PostRottieGrrrl, on 26 May 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

You guys, this is freaking FASCINATING. I'm going to take awhile here getting my Word and digesting this. Thanks for the homework for today! Love it! :)/>


Just an aside here, but can you imagine what a kick-foot warrior Michael must be? I'd hate to be on the bad side of him! ;)

kick foot? lol. I did not type that, lol.
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#14 User is offline   RottieGrrrl Icon

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 10:38 AM

WW I have to say, you are quoting parts of the OT I didn't even know existed. MAKING THIS REAL HOMEWORK FOR ME! lol. :)
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#15 User is offline   RottieGrrrl Icon

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 10:48 AM

This stuff is a LOT to digest. So I'm taking my time here....I'm reading everybody's stuff.
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#16 User is offline   RottieGrrrl Icon

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 11:05 AM

good grief Steve Lortz, I never knew about Leviathan the sea monster! Thanks!

Waysider, thanks for the link, looks interesting! Human without bean: (what bean are you without?lol) thanks for the contrib. :)/>

This post has been edited by RottieGrrrl: 26 May 2013 - 11:05 AM

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#17 User is offline   RottieGrrrl Icon

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 05:22 PM

Yeah I do have another question, but I don't want to bleed you guys to death because of my pea-brain. So I guess I'll leave it be for now.....
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#18 User is offline   WordWolf Icon

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 11:45 PM

View PostRottieGrrrl, on 26 May 2013 - 05:22 PM, said:

Yeah I do have another question, but I don't want to bleed you guys to death because of my pea-brain. So I guess I'll leave it be for now.....


Feel free to fire away.


BTW,
I'm well aware that I expounded at length without providing the verses.
I did that because it would have taken a few pages and significant exposition
all the way through. IMHO, satan's history is not meant to be a line of
inquiry for us, so it's not that easy to track. So, I'd need to get into,
a bit, why certain verses are read as references to him when they don't
have any of his names all over them.

Personally,
I think it's a shame that the Bible was not written like a 21st century
textbook. True, it would have been MUCH less useful for people from the
previous millenia, but for me here and now, it would be a LOT easier
to dig out the more obscure details.
;)
=====================
"...I have tried to keep memory alive, I have tried to fight those who would forget. Because if we forget, we are guilty, we are accomplices...
I swore never to be silent whenever, wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation...
Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented."
-Elie Wiesel, Nobel Peace Prize Acceptance Speech, December 10, 1986.
=====================
"Justice, like lightning, ever should appear
To few men's ruin, but to all men's fear.
Of mortal justice if thou scorn the rod,
Believe and tremble, thou art judged of God."-
Milo Sweetman.
0

#19 User is offline   RottieGrrrl Icon

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 08:06 PM

View PostWordWolf, on 26 May 2013 - 11:45 PM, said:

Feel free to fire away.


BTW,
I'm well aware that I expounded at length without providing the verses.
I did that because it would have taken a few pages and significant exposition
all the way through. IMHO, satan's history is not meant to be a line of
inquiry for us, so it's not that easy to track. So, I'd need to get into,
a bit, why certain verses are read as references to him when they don't
have any of his names all over them.

Personally,
I think it's a shame that the Bible was not written like a 21st century
textbook. True, it would have been MUCH less useful for people from the
previous millenia, but for me here and now, it would be a LOT easier
to dig out the more obscure details.
;)/>


I am going to fire away, just got back on the computer after a week of flood watch here, anyway, I will start the PT with you. and I AGREE about the 21st century stuff. I try to read easier versions, but I still get confused about certain things., sigh, okay, on to the PT :)
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#20 User is offline   RottieGrrrl Icon

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 10:57 AM

For some reason I thought I was starting a private conversation with WW, and either I don't know what I'm doing, or ....I don't know what I'm doing. BUT. here is my BIG question that I have a problem with. Why would God allow the devil to be in the Garden to tempt Adam and Eve anyway? I heard one TV preacher say he believes that the serpent was really supposed to be put there by God as an angel to help Adam and Eve, and instead turned on God and took advantage of them. Without getting off on a tangent about that teaching, it does NOT make sense to me that God would allow a sneaky evil being to tempt them. What if satan wasn't there? Would they have not stood at least a better chance? The TV preacher said that would be like throwing your child onto the highway to play. But even though I think this guy is OFF on this subject, I kind of see his point. And okay, if anyone has the patience with my crazy questions. What would happen if Eve had eaten the apple but not Adam. Would we still be okay? Sheesh. I know. I guess she would have died but he wouldn't have. I don't know. But you know, these are honest questions I have. Anyone? Take your time cause I know poeple have lives (unlike me) but I really would appreciate any input. :)
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