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Thank you WordWolf. Please explain what the error in doctrine is. If you like, please post what iAsk says what Mary veneration actually is, so we may proceed with the same frame of reference. Thx.

I didn't believe in striking the guy's name since it was his idea in the first place, but whatever Raf wants to do with this thread is fine by me.

Yes. Among the other names was the eponymous character in The Great Gatsby.

(Yes, I think it was crazy to post this in the sub forum in which it started. That was just BEGGING for a flame post...which would have been on subject for the sub forum. I think there is a False Dilemma at work, and I am going to identify it. Mrs Wolf has suggested to me previously (with merit, I believe) that Mary veneration, at least the modern type and much of what led to it, springs from the practice of Christianity being an Old Boys Club. Women can easily feel left out of things, and Mary veneration helps address that. My problem is that I feel that the usual methods of addressing that would be veneration of Mary (prayers to her, etc.) or veneration of female saints (prayers to them, etc.), and I find EITHER to be doctrinal error, at best. I think we may agree on the problem but not with the solution. I find Mary veneration to be a lazy solution to a deeper problem, one that calls for answers that are doctrinally sound while still addressing the problem. It seems ridiculous to have to say it, but Christianity needs women, and Christianity has room for women, and there is a lot for women there, both to offer them and for them to do, if action is the goal. We do not need to address that by embracing error. (I'm not aiming this at any posters here, just at the doctrine. Please try not to see offense in it. If I've offended in passing, I'm sorry.)

You could have just said it was the AI on Google Search, but it is probably at least as good to say it is a Gemini variant. (Mentioning both is probably better, I suppose.) Previously, you just said it was "from AI", but with no clue where you went (Google Search.) The one I quoted automatically cites its sources, and that's why I used it at all.

Really? Okay. I'll try to come up with it.

Will that work?

Raf please do what you feel is best. My sole reason for this post was to discuss Mary the Mother of Jesus and what Kirk said about Christians not venerating her enough. If he was right then we, whoever wants to, may do good to give it some appreciable thought...thx

This seems rather disingenuous and hypocritical, coming from someone who was known to be an outspoken misogynist. One might even suspect he was pandering. Is that too far off topic? Remove if necessary.

Out of respect: You posted this in atheism. You do NOT want to know what I think of Charlie Kirk. So I will move it and I will ask that we refrain from referring to the killer's motive as "demonic," which (under the umbrella of the atheism forum) is a lazy scapegoating that robs a homicidal a-hole of responsibility for his despicable act. And I will ask that we refrain from politics, which is impossible in a conversation about Charlie Kirk (which is why I feel compelled to change the name of the thread). So henceforth, this thread is narrowed to the following: Do we agree? [moving to doctrinal).

Right artist/Wrong song

correct

Assume that was a typo correct? Moody Blues

They are now.

BUMP ~Joni Mitchell~ Woodstock

Just need the first clue. I haven't been online for a few days. Eric Carman (not that it matters here) "I can't live (if living is without you)" City girls just seem to find out early How to open doors with just a smile

Wasn't he the 'golden boy" who went down with the ship on Titanic? AKA Leonardo DiCaprio Yeah, that's him.

A couple of the names are vaguely familiar, but I'm not placing an actor with any of them. George

Oops I guess the links are working...

The following information came to me in an email and thought some of us may want to think about and discuss it. I can tell you from personal experience in TWI that I didn't think as highly of Mary the mother of Jesus as I should have. Maybe you feel the same way I do, but now I regret that. The links are not clickable here but let me know if you want me to post them. Thank you. Charlie Kirk and the Journey Home--Both Christine Niles of Stella Maris Media and Raymond Arroyo of Fox News (38:01) and EWTN are reporting that, in the last few months of his life, Charlie Kirk and his wife had been attending Mass at Saint Bernadette Parish in Scottsdale, Arizona. Kirk, the Founder and CEO of Turning Point USA, was raised Presbyterian, and had long identified as an Evangelical. In July, he surprised many of his followers when he said the solution to toxic feminism was the Blessed Virgin Mary. Kirk said that "I think we as Protestants and Evangelicals under-venerate Mary. She was very important. She was a vessel for our Lord and Savior....We don't talk about Mary enough. We don't venerate her enough. Mary was clearly important to early Christians." The cruel, savage and premeditated murder of Charlie Kirk may well have been demonic in origin. Let us hope and pray that Charlie Kirk attained the eternal destiny which he was seeking, and let us pray for his wife and children, who have suffered a grievous and inconsolable loss.

Good point. The thought keeps coming to me that if TWI ever were big, really big; no doubt it would encourage all members to pursue government action. Perhaps not directly, but individually. After all, what zealous religion who thinks it has the true word wouldn't?

WordWolf, I asked my AI what source it was and got the below answers... and asking where it gets all its sources sounds like a great idea. Perhaps we should start a thread only on AI and everything about it? We may ask it anything... what source of artificial intelligence are you? This is AI on Google Search, and it is powered by the Gemini family of models . It uses natural language processing (NLP) and machine learning (ML). The AI understands and generates human-like conversations.

The fact that they were openly pro choice (in my day at least) would get them kicked out of any Christian Nationalist movement.