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You know nothing about what I do or do not know. What I said about those groups can easily be documented. I will do so if you're interested but not tonight - it's too late.

I'm just going to tell you my opinion. Of course you can disagree. Respectfully, you're very certain about things you know nothing about. But, I' m not here to convince anyone of anything, either.

As the OP shows, twi is still teaching that the fruit of the spirit comes from the manifestations but also includes by walking by the word. I think other Christian groups will teach the latter but not the former if they believe in cessationism.

The Fruit of the Spirit Quotes from article above: "In contrast to walking by the flesh, we walk by the spirit, which includes walking by the written revelation of God’s Word and operating the nine manifestations of the gift of holy spirit we received when we were born again." "When we walk by the spirit by operating these nine manifestations, we will produce the fruit of the spirit."

I think you know that twi will have none of the preposterous, pretentious and extreme prophetic phoniness that ministries like Morningstar (and IHOPKC, Gateway Church, Bethel Church, and others) prosper in, but they all do share in twi's history of there being sexual abuse. Now, do they all practice lovebombing like twi - that I do not know.

I'm fuzzy on the specifics. We discussed this in detail here 10 or 12 years ago. Most of this sort of thing came from Stiles or Leonard or maybe both. The definitions VPW used in the Advanced Class were lifted almost word-for-word from one of them. I think it may have been Stiles. Anyhow, it's all archived here somewhere. I'm not personally very skilled at locating old discussions. But, yeah, it's all here if you're motivated enough to look for it. At the moment, I'm more motivated to catch another episode of Heavenly Ever After on Netflix.

As I tell my sister, I am my favorite subject. So OK, the Rock in 87 and 88. Highlights of my Christian experience. Went into the Army. Met up with a guy trying to establish The Way in Germany but nothing came of it. Got out in 93 and joined a twig. Went to the Rock and this time it was awful. Grounds weren't immaculate as they used to be. The love, joy and family were gone. I found LCMs preaching to be caustic and controlling. It was later that fall I had that demonic episode I wrote about. Eventually I split with my twig leader and The Way. In my experience, The Way changed between '88 and '93. I know it is different for everybody, many thought it was over before I took PFAL. A little extra, would Christianity ever be the same again? The Way was gone, was that glorious experience of Christianity gone, too? Sometime around 96 or 97 the providential hand of God (just humor me, OK?) brought me to Morningstar Fellowship in Charlotte, NC. Truly, it was a 'God thing' (read: psychotic event). My walk with Christ (in my imagination) opened up new chapters and new vistas and even though the experience of love in Christian family (no thanks to VP, I'm sure) was never the same, interaction with other worlds became even better- like...way better (don't bogart that bong) ... Hard getting away from my favorite subject but you did ask.

Only if one wants to see it in the original... and who knows, maybe there's something there that's different...

Do you know who from and what book?

Yes. But don't remember when I first heard it. I remember a CFS camp on Shelter Island in July of 1973 that I was begging to go to after taking PFAL the prior week for the first time at the same location. 17 years old. THOSE were some of my very good memories. Here's a thread on the CFS camp. Gotta love DWBH posts... always entertaining...

Just be glad you didn't see it in the original.

Well, there you have it. One of the most private of private interpretations.

I have a first hand recollection of him teaching that masturbation was the original sin. That's not an event you casually forget.

Probably. I've heard that. You should know better than I. Wasn't sure if Darth Vader Craig invented that or the Emperor victor did. I turned it off after about 20 minutes when victor uttered such exegetical fallacious bulls hit. Abject stupidity. Plagiarized errors are bad enough, but victor's most egregious errors are in his original "work." I am in awe of those in awe of him.

I no longer have the books that demonstrate what concepts Wierwille lifted word for word. I would suspect Christians would care more about the content than the source when evaluating the doctrines, and that conversation, of course, belongs in Doctrinal (we have a new sub forum dedicated specifically to twi doctrine. Feel free). The question of whether he plagiarized or made it up stays here. I don't care much either way. Should we still?

Didn't he take it one metaphorical step further and claim that not only did the trees in Genesis represent people, but they represented their genitals, making the original sin masturbation?

Vroom Vroom!

Yes, he copied it.

This opens up a whole lot of other questions for me like, does God work with unbelievers as well. Maybe the whole rap of "the fruit of the spirit comes from the manifestations" is bogus. QUESTION for the group: did VPW make that up or did he copy it from elsewhere... Stiles, Leonard, or somebody else?

After watching many episodes of "The Practice" and enjoying it immensely, I have to admit, "It's Possible".

I can even hear the girlfriends say, "Yes, we get it." It's an oldie, but I'm not quite clicking on it. George

"Benny Hill"? George

This may be one of the most important topics of our time, i.e., What is Hell? I think Martin Luther struggled with it; certainly I do. Still haven't decided yet, still open to possibilities. Here's another book that I think we discussed at some point in the past: https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=32180704645&dest=usa&ref_=ps_ggl_17730880232&cm_mmc=ggl-_-US_Shopp_Trade_10to20-_-product_id=COM9780595143429USED-_-keyword=&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=17190383924&gbraid=0AAAAAD3Y6guhSTjDY6oAFsx9lSu4SnsCN&gclid=CjwKCAjwo4rCBhAbEiwAxhJlCSy6Q8uurSSH4soZ9p8JiiXjAh8S4jIwrnkXakdETCyLGnk95MVBbhoCj6kQAvD_BwE

Almost thou persuadest me to be an atheist