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Questioning Way International Doctrines (William Barlow) In this audio interview done by Sean Finnegan (Vince Finnegan's son), William Barlow covers a lot of topics along with his life experiences leading up to and after his being kicked out of the way corps by Rivenbark about six months before he was to graduate. If I remember correctly, this was around 2017. He speaks on growing up in twi, the treatment he received because he went to his leadership about wanting to privately discuss questions he and another corps brother had about some of vpw's teaching, the control leadership wanted to have over him after leaving the corps, etc. The main issue concerns twi's continued stance to preserve vpw's teachings and confront, belittle and condemn those who dare to question them. The link below is for Barlow's website which he mentions. It contains research teachings he and others have done on dispensationalism, the tithe and giving, the kingdom of God and many others. He encourages questions on all of the teachings. Study Driven Faith

Right pew. You're up. George

This is a show that ran in syndication in the U.S. for a long time. In the U.K., it did the same, AFAIK. In the UK, it was a 1-hour show. In the US, they snipped each show in half to make 1/2 hour shows, which is how they always aired, AFAIK. It is next to impossible to find this show in syndication now. I strongly suspect that far too many people were offended by the show- or are predicted to be offended by the show, for it to run now. That's a little odd, because, on the whole, it wasn't a show that specifically went for "shocking" or "edgy." This show was a comedy- although it did include musical numbers. It occasionally spoofed something- like "Gone with the Wind," "Murder on the Orient Express," and "The 6 Million Dollar Man."

I'm sure the name "Ernest Martin" won't ring a bell to a lot of people who only listen to twi's side of stories. His name is known at the GSC. Ernest Martin was the man who wrote the article and book upon which twi based "Jesus Christ- Our Promised Seed." His book was called "The Star That Astonished the World." The article preceded the book by several years, and was used by the research department-at vpw's direction- on which to base the book. Ever remember hearing his name in twi? Me, neither. A different thing which may be a surprise to some people-but not others- is that JCOPS says "by vpw" on it and inside it. It was written by people in the research department, and based largely on Martin's work- with some interpolation of Bullinger's work from "the Witness of the Stars". Once again, very little of that book was original, and even less was written by vpw- largely the introduction. This wouldn't surprise some people because, apparently, it's customary in certain circles for the person in charge of the group to write "edited by" and slap his name on the work of his team- no matter how much of it was his work- and mention the team briefly, and that's all right. I know it surprised me, at least. I expect the words "written by" to mean that this is the person who wrote a book. I acknowledge books that say something like "my life as told to" as different, and scholarly books like "Black Elk Speaks", which was compiled by a Professor, and was largely the words of Black Elk, an Indian chieftain (with notes where a different Indian was quoted, like "Iron Wasichu speaks" and so on.)

Dirty Harry

I got another one. Nick Nolte

When the rain is blowing in your face And the whole world is on your case I could offer you a warm embrace

Right church, wrong pew. George

That's quite a lineup, but I'm not getting it. George

I doubt Mac Davis ever covered this one. George

Yes, The Continuing Story of Bungalow Bill.

IF anything, teaching the concept without the deceptive bias, TWI actually OWES service to the believers/followers.

Which translates to: Tithe Identification: What Tithe is Paid by Christians? I appreciate the practice with French language translation (I still have to use google translate). Immutable my BEE-hind.

Yeah, there's nothing Biblically required about making the tithe the minimum;

Giving to God—Abundant Sharing Posted on November 14, 2016 by The Way Quote: Tithing (giving one-tenth of one’s increase) to the Lord is established in God’s Word as a basic law of God’s prosperity. In making the tithe our minimum, we open the floodgates for prosperity to ourselves, and we help make available the knowledge of God to others. We also have the joy of giving above and beyond the tithe, which we call abundant sharing. Abundant sharing is a heart-motivated commitment to freely share of our abundance out of love for and thankfulness to God. Two main purposes for abundantly sharing are so that God’s people may give and thus receive the subsequent blessings, and so that the necessary financial and physical means are provided to help move God’s prevailing Word.

Our Legal Rights in Christ to God’s Blessings This article was posted 5 years ago by twi. In it they say "One of these immutable laws is the law of giving."

2 Corinthians 9:5-7 So I considered it necessary to urge the brothers that they go on ahead to you and arrange in advance your previously promised generous gift (blessing) that the same would be ready as a generous gift (blessing) and not as one grudgingly given due to greediness (covetousness). 6 Now I say this: the one who sows sparingly (refraining) will also reap sparingly (refraining), and the one who sows generously (upon blessings) will also reap generously (upon blessings). 7 Each one must do just as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. Sparingly = 5340 pheidomenós (adverb): Sparing, refraining, withholding. This is in the context of verse 5 which says "not as one grudgingly given due to greediness" NASB which is one Greek word - 4124 pleonexia meaning greed, covetousness. So sparingly here isn't about giving a small amount but giving a small amount because of greed (an intense and selfish desire for something). IOW, you don't have to give out of what you need, but out of your blessings. Generously = 2129 ep' eulogia (noun): upon (on the basis of) blessings (See 1909 epi) I know it can be a challenge to get past twi's doctrine and expectations of habitual giving/abundant sharing in order to begin giving according to one's own heart. And again, the purpose for Paul's collection in 2 Cor 8 and 9 is for the poor saints in Jerusalem maybe because of a famine or because of persecution or both. My last word on this is the concept of giving "in order" to receive. Can't see how this is a right attitude to have.

I do not think there is a law of "giving and receiving", Of course I know that not everyone in this forum is Christian or Bible purist, but if we take the Bible as a reference, it does not mention giving as a law (unlike the Mosaic law or other civil, agricultural, etc. regulations) - the closest thing is "He who soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he who soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully." Is that a Law? Does it always happen the same way? If a person gives abundantly, will that person always receive abundantly? I believe God and the Bible, and I choose to give BUT freely, Not by coercion, obligation or pressure. There are two books that contain a lot of information on this subject and that obviously do not coincide with TWI's vision: "The Tithing Dilemma" by Ernest Martin " L’identification des dîmes: Quelle dîme est donc payée par les chrétiens" by Hughes N.

Pardon me if I misunderstand, but if God had set it up as a law, wouldn't there be a one to one ratio of action and reaction? Why don't they (or anyone else) just call it the concept of giving (and receiving)? One would think they could expand on it to include the organization's understanding of what the believer's giving is conceptually supposed to be used for... and perhaps expand the teaching to include TWI responsibility to contribute to community support organizations, at least 10 percent of gross receipts.

I've obviously extended this thread to include "giving" (aka twi's doctrine of abundant sharing) as well as tithing. If anyone finds this is being , I can start a new thread.

That's how I understand it as well. Apparently, once the temple was destroyed, the transactional tithe in order to receive God's blessings took on a mandatory monetary value according to some religious organizations.

I want to look at the words "generous gift" in 2 Corinthians 9:5 So I considered it necessary to urge the brothers that they go on ahead to you and arrange in advance your previously promised generous gift, that the same would be ready as a generous gift, and not as one grudgingly given due to greediness. (NASB) Translations of 2 Corinthias 9:5 shows parallel verses which used different word(s) instead of "generous gift." They include willing gift, blessing, a matter of bounty, matter of generosity, bountiful gift, etc. However, 2129. eulogia gives the definition of eulogia as meaning "blessing, praise, benefit." It also shows it's specific meaning for 2 Cor 9:5 as "the blessing of a collection sent from Christians to their brethren" (See 5a). The word "generous" is not mentioned. Finally, Verses with eulogia show how this word is translated as "blessing" in all its usages (except Romans 16:18) and 2 Cor 9:5-6 where it is translated in terms of bounty or generosity. Why is this? 2 Corinthians 9:6 is the next verse that should be looked at as well.

“…doors…keys…” **transactions Malachi sounds transactional, too. Bring the WHOLE tithe (not more) and see if blessing don’t pour out from heaven. Maybe a promise. Maybe a challenge. But the tithe was about food, right? The priests had to eat. Livestock were given to be cooked (sacrificed) and eaten. These animals also provided milk and eggs. The temple money changers, who Jesus rebuked, converted coin to livestock. The livestock was then offered. For sacrifice. To be eaten. The tithe was about food. Do I have this right?

(Highlighting and colour of font above is mine) 2 Corinthians 8:7 Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance (logos), and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also. You said that you saw this verse as showing abounding is the "standard that is supposed to underscore our motivation to give." I see it also as "abounding" in all of the areas are necessary in order for any one specific area to be successful in God's eyes. IOW, you need to abound in faith if you want to abound in all the others; you need to abound in speaking the word if you want to abound in all the others; you need to abound in knowledge if you want to abound in all the others, etc. According to BibleHub, "abound" is 4052 perisseuó meaning to abound (exist in large numbers or amounts), to be in abundance (a very large quantity of something), to overflow (the excess or surplus not able to be accommodated by an available space), to excel (to be superior to: surpass in accomplishment or achievement). Is it taking it too far then to say that this abounding in all 6 things is required to receive anything from God as opposed to pfal's list of 5 things to do in order to receive anything from God?

Bungalow Bill?