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The whole marriage stuff in TWI was a mess. That being said, I am glad I am still with the guy I married there. We had some rough years at the beginning because of TWI doctrines about marriage. At one point my husband went to our area coordinator and asked for help because my husband felt that he (my husband) had been verbally abusive to me and he wanted help in stopping. He said the area coordinator just looked at him with a blank stare. He didn't know what to say... After all, a man is supposed to verbally abuse his wife, right? I mean, who didn't? And for that matter, we were encouraged to verbally abuse each other in the body of believers, right? CONFRONT. We're working on ten years now. My husband and I have both grown and changed. He is more loving and caring than he has ever been. It took us both a long time and counselling to get the Way's ideas of marriage out of our heads. I had to learn to stand up for myself and treat myself as equal to my husband. I had to learn it was ok to not agree with every little thing all the time. He had to learn that I wasn't someone who was put on this earth to serve him in any way he saw fit. I'm thankful we both went through the crap together, because we both understand our weird backgrounds and traumas. And when we have a flashback we can be there for each other knowing personally what the other person is going through. In many ways it made us better people. Now if we could just fix the lost income from that time we'd be set.

I agree that the carnage affects society as a whole, but should we turn to the government to protect us from ourselves once again? What you are suggesting has been attempted and it didn't work so well. It was during the middle ages and it resulted in inquisitions. It came to where if you didn't agree with the king or authority you risked persecution, or even execution. Then a different authority would gain power and they would persecute for different reasons. There was no freedom for the individual and the carnage was much much worse. I would suggest that tyranny exists where dissent is forbidden and governments as a rule to not like dissent. Adolf Hitler allowed churches to exist but they had to agree to support his agenda. If they did not they were shut down. The same holds true in certain dictatorships today such as China. They are deemed "not good for the people". Is that what we want? Churches or worship centers that have to abide by rules set by a governmental authority in order to function? What about those who refuse to abide by the governmental requirement, what should happen to them? Should we arrest them, perhaps put them in labor camps or perhaps (ahem) concentration camps? With respect to the U.S. government, they have a lot of problems as it is. Congress just approved a spending bill and it's considered a great victory, even an historical event. Well woop de doo, they agree on something! Let's see, what have we seen from the U.S. government since 9/11? Now they listen in on your phone calls and they read your emails-invasion of privacy. They've also taken to tapping the phone lines of other governments, even our most trusted allies, just to listen to what's going on. The IRS has been caught targeting certain conservative organizations in order to delay their formation. Not because the organizations were subversive, but because their political views were at odds with current administration. Their department head even lied to a Congressional investigation then hard evidence surfaced leaving no doubt as to the antics of the IRS and he was dismissed. The Veteran's Administration has come under fire for failure to address the health needs of veterans resulting in death in some cases and serious complications in others. They have muddled in the affairs of foreign governments, bribed, and in some cases assassinated other leaders in order to gain an advantage on the world stage. All of these things were done for the "good of the people". This week it was learned that our CIA was engaging in torturing prisoners to get information. When confronted, the answer we heard was this was necessary in order to get information to save American lives. In other words, it was for "the good of the people". I could go on and on, but I ask you, are these the people you want deciding where who and what you can worship (or not worship)? If you're going to have a government that allows freedom of religion then you're going to have cults. If you're going to have a government with freedom of speech then you're going to have hate groups spouting venom. If you want to be "free" from all of that then your only alternative is tyranny and thence a forfeiture of your freedom.

The local cult here, International House of Prayer, had a member commit suicide a few years ago. She lived a few houses down from me. She could have been me - I mean our situations and involvement in our respective cults were very similar. I am older, I married a man who convinced me to leave the cult. She was younger, and married to a man who was a narcissistic sociopath. He basically used her belief in God to drive her to suicide. That could have been me. There were times when I thought about what I would do if I had been marked and avoided... I decided I would take my car somewhere where no one would find me and I would take pills until I fell asleep and died. And that's what she did. Even the same method of suicide that I had contemplated. Rolling Stone did an article about her death (now ruled a suicide), and the reporter came to my house as a lead. I told him that day about my background, and then I told him that I wanted him to tell the world that she wasn't stupid, wasn't weak minded... She was manipulated and naïve. She came into a group wanting to do good and be called to a higher purpose. And there is nothing wrong with either of those things. But groups like TWI and IHOP use these good desires people have and twist them into a way to control people. That is where the evil really is. The environment that fosters trust in good hearted people, leading them down the path to their destruction. I'm just glad I got out before I ended up like her. Poor girl. On the anniversary of her death this year I took a small angel statue and some flowers and left them at the park where they found her body and said a prayer for her soul and for all the rest of us, too. The Rolling Stone reporter took my advice. Here is a link to the story... Bethany

" Would things have been different without the drinking? Toxic behavior prevented?" It's all interwoven.Some of the toxic behavior involved alcohol abuse and some of it didn't involve alcohol abuse at all. Maybe some of Wierwille's unacceptable behavior was alcohol fueled and, then again, maybe he would have behaved poorly even when he was sober. I don't know. What I do know is that people who were at the lower end of the pecking order saw those who were at the higher end of the pecking order demonstrate a manner in which they treated their spouses. And, so, there was a kind of attitude present that said this must be the acceptable way to behave. It wasn't.

This discussion seems to have gone in an unintended direction. My point was that many of us pattered our behavior, as it relates to interpersonal relationships, after examples that were toxic at the core. Because of the perceived importance of the position he filled, Wierwille should have been an example of how a husband should treat his wife. Instead, he was.....something else. So, when things went down the crapper, for some of us, we were left wondering how the modeled example failed us. Shortened version: Trying to be the kind of husband that TWI prescribed was a recipe for failure. Fortunately, some people like to improvise on recipes.