WhiteDove

You may be correct, sounds reasonable, but I'll note they killed it, doubtful they hooked it and drug it around needlessly alive torturing it. The Indians were pretty respectful of nature and creatures as I recall.

So then you were incorrect it was one class ago....... Point noted

To clairify the Questionnaire was different than the Final Exam in the Corps version The final exam dealt with the material in the class the questionnaire was more on attitude toward sex. Most if not all Corps classes had Final Exams. Actually it is the same class the same material one the field version had two pages of the syllabus, the other the in residence version had all the pages to the syllabus. It's still the same class not a different version. It's just how many pages of the syllabus one was given.

Well it is quite lengthy and obviously banged out on one of the old HDQS typewriters so the pages are full. But Ok since you asked nicely, be aware I used the old close your eyes and let the finger lead you method from PFAL. Here is one from page 10 "God never asks us to forget, only to forgive. You can at least walk in the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation so that the memory won't be a hurtful thing----perhaps only a scar, Scars don't hurt Ephesians 5:22 Christ doesn't lord it over the church. If your man yells JUMP Baloney..... Correct , but the record shows that there was a full syllabus ,although it was not available (for what reason I don't know) to all students. Much as the full PFAL syllabus was not in later years . My reply was to correct the record, not to imply that it was used in any manor other than the one which I indicated. My memory fails me but it seems that it may have been used in the CF & S camp in CO. in 1972 - 73

Sorry about your memory, but the facts are - as I stare at my 36 page syllabus this morning here. none the less true. Perhaps you failed to read my post clearly? The Corps class yielded the full CF&S syllabus. And edited to say did also include a six page final exam......... Then again Hey what do I know I only live in Kansas......

And dogs are more important to the world socialsystem, besides they are far more useful, they help the blind to lead productive lives ,they help the deaf to hear ,they protect our law enforcement officers, sniiff out drugs and bombs, guide the wheelchair bound , they have dialed phones for help for siezure patients, they have gone for help and returned with it for people that have fallen off cliffs or other accidents. None of which I have seen a shark do. And they are the most loyal things despite our human tendencies to mistreat them and break their hearts and spirit. You Didn't Even Say Goodbye "Woof!" I said as you started the car, "Hooray!" I said, it's my first time afar. The scents we were passing were all new to me, For it was my first introduction to this mystery. As we got out of the car I embraced you with joy, After all you remembered to bring my favorite toy! You threw it once or twice, of which I retrieved, But on the third it seemed you were ready to leave. You threw it long and hard and I chased it like lightning, But when I turned to bring it back I saw a sight quite frightening. I gripped my toy hard as I tried to comprehend What it was I did wrong to make our relationship end. You walked back to your car as I sat there still loyal. Why am I subservient and you so royal? Your engine started, and you peeled out of sight, You didn't even care about my overwhelming fright. As I sat in my pose determined you would come back, The sun faded behind me while the surroundings turned black. Day after day I stayed in that park, Lying... waiting... too feeble to bark. As I lay there dying thinking of you master, I asked myself how I got into this horrifying disaster. With my last breath of life, I whispered your name Then I collapsed in a heap overrun by pain. Why didn't you love me master? Why didn't you care? Had I no significance, was I just a clump of hair? I stayed there master and I waited for you I guess taking care of me was just too much to do. I'm gone now master, no more You-and-I But what I can't figure out is why you didn't even say goodbye...

Actually there was a 36 page syllabus to be correct, much like the expanded PFAL syllabus ,.that one received in the AC for some reason the Corps class yielded the full CF&S syllabus. It may have been distributed in some of the early camps as well. I think I have an audio of an early CF&S camp on reel to reel somewhere around. If it is important research I might be able to dig it out and see if a syllabus is mentioned. A side note I had to laugh at the final exam questions Here is a sample #18" Foolishness is bound in the heart of___________" A. a child B. The Way Corps C. The College Division D. Everyone Pencils up....... Let's see if you passed.

Maybe Oakspear? I though it was the same class? Anyway I prefer my wine in bottles...... and eventually in glasses preferably in my hand.

I thought it was one class ago.. ???

Fisherman can feed their family without torturing dogs, in fact most of the fisherman there do so quite well.

We agree that the goal was always to have the material in book form. I'd say the fact that they were discontinued was due to the nicer book form being in print though, nothing else. Much like the the monographs went by the wayside when the booklets were printed because they were a nicer format. It's easier having 3 books than trying to corral sixty some booklets, the downside though is that I liked the booklets in terms of they were easy to slip into the pocket and read later as opposed to a book. With very little change in content for the most part as I said mostly the verbiage was cleaned up to read better. I'd say that we had far more than the Bible and the spoken class, I'd submit we had the books as well ,just not in as nice of form as the later. Today they are on pdf files nothing has changed really there either (scanning errors aside )but it is yet another advance in format. I can't say that I learned any more or different things from the book form as opposed to the booklets. It essentially the same info at least the sum and gist. I can't see where a minimal changes to make it read better would disqualify it from being in print as you state it in 1967. .

Whitedove Reply Hey Mike I am confused as to why you think that in 1967 hardly any of PFAL was in written form. There were pamphlets that accompanied the class they just were not combined into the one book format. but they were done by 1953 the monographs or Youth Caravan Pamphlets as they are referred to sometimes. By 1955 the second edition of receiving the Holy Spirit Today was out. From 62 - 66 Studies in abundant living series were printed covering a good portion of the class Quote Mike This is a good question. I don't have a good answer all prepared and at my fingertips right now I'll try to answer some of it, and as more comes to me I'll add it in. The year 1967 was obviously a pivotal one with the filming of the class. In 1977 plans were made to re-film it and replace it, but they were canceled at the very last minute by a revelation Dr announced at lunch that the film class was a one time deal. He said we'd go ahead with video taping PFAL '77 but it would only be a grad supplement class, and then even that never happened. The year 1971 was another pivotal year with the publication of a slew of books that ended up being in their final edition: PFAL, BTMS, TNDC, and WWAY. It seemed to signify that certain publications that had been in the preliminary stages for decades were finally done. Around that same year we saw the publication of the 1st edition of ADAN, plus RHST 6th edition. The ministry had “arrived,” in a sense, at the threshold of book production. In the May/June1979 issue of the Way Magazine the Our Times article by Dr titled “How the Word Works” talked about mastering the Word. In that same issue was the main article titled “Masters of the Word.” In that Our Times article we read: "At these occasions, the years of Biblical research I have spent come back to my mind, and joy wells up inside me as I think of what is available to you today through The Way Ministry in book and magazine form, setting forth the accuracy of God’s Word. This research took me years to work out, and now you can see the depth of it in just a few short hours of reading. Any person who works this material will have a fantastic opportunity to see how the Word works." This seemed to be an indication that the “book and magazine form” of setting forth the accuracy of God’s Word had come into being, and fairly recently relative to that 1979 publication date. By then JCNG and GMWD had come out and JCOP was in the works. Around this time scripture indexes for the books (most of which were now published in their near final form) were produced in booklet form and made available. There were also made scripture indexes for the Way Magazine articles, two of them, one for 1976-80 and 1981-86. We have not seen a magazine index for earlier dates. The hunch is that books from 1971 and up, and magazine articles from 1976 and up are the primary “setting forth” of what God taught/guided Dr for teaching to us. We have earlier books and earlier magazines, but for our study, we had to draw lines SOMEWHERE and so far these seem to be the best. It’s pretty obvious, when looking at books and magazines from earlier dates that they are somewhat in a preliminary form. In 1963 there was a black and white film class made like this, and it was rather primitive compared to the ’67 version. I’ve seen this film class and it is obviously a preliminary version. The charts are hand drawn and Dr’s camera style is not good. Early magazine articles also show less polish. There’s a book Dr wrote in 1952 that I once heard him say that if he has his way, we’ll never see it. His 1956 “Dilemma of Foreign Missions in India” while fascinating in certain respects, is doctrinally lacking and he seemed to try and keep this from us also. That’s the best I have right now. Whitedove Reply Thanks for taking time to answer, while this makes a case for the books being a preferred method to study. It does not address the question I had which was I am confused as to why you think that in 1967 hardly any of PFAL was in written form. Maybe here is a better explanation Just today a pulled at random one of the booklets from the class, you know the ones VP held up in several sessions. I think there are around 60 or so of them that came with the class. The one I happened to pick was Your Power of Attorney. In comparing it to the book form there was very little difference, and none in content, mostly the verbiage was cleaned up to read better. I'd say that is true of most of the booklets. They were done prior to 1967. Many of them are just reprints of the monographs that were before them. In any case they in print contain I'd guess about 99% of the same material that is in the books . That is a long way from hardly any of PFAL in written form and only having the KJV Bible and the spoken class. I'd say the bulk of it was in written form. I'll spin this off to another thread and you can get to it when you can. Reply Mike I’ve toyed with the idea that the PFAL revelations were first discussed and hashed about, much like Dr says in the Thessalonians Univ. of Life tapes that Paul and Timothy and Silas hashed out Paul’s revelations before they were put into written form. This is NOT the dictation model of written revelation. I’ve discussed this here before, how in Psalms it says (with suitable corrections) that every Word of God is pure, words-of-earth tried in an oven seven times. That sounds like hashing it out, discussing it, editing and revising it until it’s good for consumption. Maybe those booklets were part of that process. The fact that they were discontinued in 1971 should tell us something.

I have never defended Mr. Wierwille as in this case I have defended the truth ,and factual documentation. If you have some facts you would like to present on either case we can discuss them but as usual all I have seen are I say so never mind what the record says.. Now if we can just get the (foreigners) Japanese pals of yours to quit violating the 1986 ban on commercial whaling in , under the ruse of research all will right in the world

Only them evil foreigners that George knows about make dog food out of whales they serve it in school lunches too :blink:

Thanks for taking time to answer, while this makes a case for the books being a prefered method to study .It does not address the question I had which was I am confused as to why you think that in 1967 hardly any of PFAL was in written form. Maybe here is a better explaination Just today a pulled at random one of the booklets from the classs, you know the ones VP held up in sevral sessions. I think there are around 60 or so of them that came with the class. The one I happened to pick was Your Power of Attorney. In comparing it to the book form there was very little difference and none in content ,mostly the verbage was cleaned up to read better. I'd say that is true of most of the booklets. They were done prior to 1967. Many of them are just reprints of the monographs that were before them In any case they in print contain I'd guess about 99% of the same material that is in the books . That is a long way from hardly any of PFAL in written form and only having the KJV Bible and the spoken class. I'd say the bulk of it was in written form. I'll spin this off to another thread and you can get to it when you can.

There you go waysider..... The reason for this thread speaks.......If you need to ask ,you don't get it.

QUOTE No, I posted above what he taught. It's not "the Bible" but "The Word" that he took as his only rule. That was in 1967, when hardly any of PFAL was in written form. In those days all WE had was our KJV and the spoken class to fix some of it. We went with what we had, which was better than nothing. Hey Mike I am confused as to why you think that in 1967 hardly any of PFAL was in written form. There were pamphlets that accompanied the class they just were not combined into the one book format. but they were done by 1953 the monographs or Youth Caravan Pamphlets as they are referred to sometimes. By 1955 the second edition of Receiving the Holy Spirit Today was out. From 62 - 66 Studies in abundant living series were printed covering a good portion of the class. Just bumping this back up in line, I know your a little busy right now but when you get a moment.........

Not likely, Exactly what are the odds of a dog eating a hook and then installing two more hooks in each paw not in random spaces mind you, but in roughly the same spot on each paw? OH Gee let me think...... I'd say about the same as the wind blowing through a airplane parts hanger and assembling a perfect 747.

Those were your words you were not aware ,not mine ,I never said that the laws apply anywhere in fact I never mentioned application of the law period that was your statement., What I said is that it was a crime which according to the French law it is. Your the one who came up with the idea that "I wasn't aware our laws apply in French controlled territories" I never said,mentioned or implied that they were. Your question indicated that you thought I did. You thought wrong. QUOTE The French Embassy in Washington, D.C., issued a written statement condemning the use of dogs as shark bait, emphasizing that such acts are illegal and will not be tolerated in the French territory. You questioned that , but that is what the law reads. And by the way the crime occured where the juristiction is ,I suppose that's why the guilty verdict. On to a new topic since you can't prove your case?

Her utube video is the same one I posted earlier. It is meant to raise awareness for the incident not as a defense in a court to prove a case. A case which did go to court (I suppose you simply forgot that and resulted in a guilty verdict by those who require such proof be met. The burden was met It said nothing of the sort it said it was minimal not non existent Did you read the article you presented as proof of your point? Let me refresh your memory......... In your letter that you referenced Introduced meaning that it did in fact go on...case closed Sounds like they don't share your view that it did not happen there George. Nope sought after and brought to justice sounds just a little like they think it might have been done.

Yes it is a crime Again I never said our laws applied anywhere that is your assumption. and local authorities. Guess you missed that part that means those who have the job of determining such cases those who have experience in determining the probability of such cases.

Again you are certainly entitled to entertain any theories you wish. But the facts of the case still are the facts. You seem intent on ignoring what the government said ,what the vet said, what the judge said and the fact that the man was found guilty. I guess ignoring all the real facts makes your theories sound better to you, that's your choice. But the facts say it happened, and those on the ground there not you or I say it happens. I might not think that NASA is flying their rockets the right way I may have my theories on how it should be done, but the facts are they have sent more than a few up and back in space. My theories don't much disprove that they have just as yours don't this story. Get back to me when you have some proof and I'll be happy to retract my story.

And I never claimed that you did ,did I You asked the question why is it our business and I responded with an answer It's our business because animals should be humanely treated, It's our responsibility because they can't do it for themselves they are at our mercy. I made no charge that you supported animals being inhumanely treated. It also is our business because it s illegal a crime and we all have a moral responsibility to uphold such. Another strawman argument No one is discusssing what people eat in other countries that is not the issue.

It's our business because animals should be humanely treated, It's our responsibility because they can't do it for themselves they are at our mercy. Unfortunately some of us humans don't deserve the privilege to care for them. and being unenforced is the problem , pay a small fine here and there fish hook a few of the perpetrators and drag them for shark bait when they are caught and that sh** would come to a halt quickly.

Despite the fact that you have your personal theories on how to fish properly for sharks You have no, none, evidence that this story is not true. You offer only theories on this and that. Typical But lets look at the real facts- (not theories on how you would fish) 1. The French Embassy had this to say The French Embassy in Washington, D.C., issued a written statement condemning the use of dogs as shark bait, emphasizing that such acts are illegal and will not be tolerated in the French territory. The embassy maintains these are "very isolated cases and authorities on the island are closely monitoring the situation Exactly what would they be monitoring if there were no cases? 2. The animal was treated by a vet ,video taped and returned to it's owner when healed, as it was not a stray. The vets name is supplied. 3. Several animal groups on the ground in Reunion have said that they have found dogs and cats hooked. 4. National Geographic a well known magazine who I have serious doubts that they would print a story without first checking out the validly, did in fact do so. 5. This story now some 3 plus years old to date has not been disproven as a hoax. Why do you suppose that is? 6. And the best for last: Earlier this month the first court case was held involving a person charged with using live dogs as bait. Authorities had found a seven-month-old puppy on John Claude Clain's property in July with three fishing hooks in its paws and snout. Clain, a 51-year-old bread delivery person, was found guilty of animal cruelty and fined 5,000 euros (U.S. $5,982), according to Clicanoo, a Réunion newspaper. Those are the facts! apparently the judge does not share your theories on how fishy the story is , and rumors abounding on the high sea. I guess that real evidence just got in the way. So much for the old adage It's a dogs life..... Apparently not on Reunion......... Oh! by the way you may have noticed that I left out in my response your straw man attempt to distract from the facts of this story,( namely the Evil Foreigners) I didn't miss it. It just had zero to do with the facts. That said I have plenty to say about those evil foreigners especially those towel headed airplane flying Muslim ones.