WhiteDove

Given that this is a small puppy I assume that when the bait is eaten the hook would catch the shark if there is no more bait that leaves a hook YES? Authorities had found a seven-month-old puppy on John Claude Clain's property in July with three fishing hooks in its paws and snout. Also the operative word here is armature fisherman I read a blog where fisherman on the island said that they do not support or engage in such methods. But acknowledged that it does go on.

As I mentioned I read the snopes story I also spent considerable time reading blogs, forums and stories on the matter. By the way not one had a shred of evidence to disprove the story. I understand the problem this is a small island that according to the story is overrun with as many as 150,000 dogs. The are like vermin to the people there A dogs life has little value. That still does not make it excusable. And the photo doesn't even LOOK very convincing, does it? It almost looks like it's been photo-shopped. But I'll even give you that the dog very well could be hooked like that. I've seen dogs do themselves serious harm, left to their own devices, and I wouldn't be too surprised that this one had done something like that. Had you read the article you would see that the photo was a still frame from the vet video. I have no doubts that animals can and do get themselves in predicaments at times. But as I said the chances of a dog hooking it's mouth and then hooking it's feet neatly at about the same place on each paw by itself pretty much is immeasurable odds. Next to impossible But what would be the point of some evil, knuckle-dragging ne'er do well putting a hook like that into a dog (and just how would he go about doing it?)? It certainly seems HIGHLY unlikely that a dog that size could be trolled by a hook like that without immediately tearing out. Now am I certain that live dogs have NEVER been used for shark bait? No. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me too much if some cretin was found to have done it. It just doesn't seem too definitive in the reports. And I'd wouldn't doubt at all that some guys use DEAD dogs for bait, maybe even commonly. The workability of using a dead critter would seem much more probable. Apparently you failed to read the letter from the government that part where it says Looks pretty definitive to me , very isolated cases means that there was a case ,it happened, they admitted that it did. So what's not definitive about that? But make the story really dramatic, and couple it with an picture of a cute doggy being horribly misused by some evil, bad, bad man (no matter how improbable), probably sells a lot more newspapers. So am I CERTAIN that Bowser isn't being trolled behind a fishing boat (with one of those horrible FOREIGNERS at the helm) with a meat hook in his nose? No, but I find it not at all likely simply due to the implausibility of it being an effective method. But, gosh, there's no telling what those uncouth non-Anglos might do... I agree animal groups play up the story, they often as in the case of the video lace the footage with sad music and drama, But if there was no case to work with I suppose they wouldn't be able to do that now would they? Drama does not make the story untrue, facts do ,and I've seen none. By the way sometimes it takes such graphic drama to wake people up to the facts of real life.

George I read the snopes article long before I posted this ...And what's your point? It does not claim it was a hoax it has multiple status which is what they do when multiple claims are made. BTW, I was sorta suspicious of the photo right from the git-go, as I couldn't imagine a dog as large as that being able to be held by a hook without ripping out. The dog was 6 or 7 months old. By the way here is some other video from the vet that treated the dog which by the way was returned to the owner and is doing fine. NOTE the hooks in the paws as well also ...... HERE Perhaps you missed these other snips from the National geographic article Stephanie Roche of the Brigitte Bardot Foundation, another animal-welfare group in Paris, confirmed that live animals are used as bait on Réunion. But, she said, it is not a common practice. The Bardot organization has been fighting the practice for a decade. But this is the first time Réunion politicians have reacted strongly and swiftly to stop it, Roche said The French Embassy in Washington, D.C., issued a written statement condemning the use of dogs as shark bait, emphasizing that such acts are illegal and will not be tolerated in the French territory. The embassy maintains these are "very isolated cases and authorities on the island are closely monitoring the situation (also in the snopes article as well as the letter confirming that it does happen) AND Earlier this month the first court case was held involving a person charged with using live dogs as bait. Authorities had found a seven-month-old puppy on John Claude Clain's property in July with three fishing hooks in its paws and snout. Clain, a 51-year-old bread deliveryperson, was found guilty of animal cruelty and fined 5,000 euros (U.S. $5,982), according to Clicanoo, a Réunion newspaper. The amateur fisher said he did not use the puppy as bait. Instead, Clain said, the dog had been injured by a trap he had set to protect his hens, the paper reported. Clain's case isn't an isolated one, said Fabienne Jouve of GRAAL (Groupement de Réflexion et d'Action pour l'Animal, or the Grouping of Reflection and Action for Animals), an animal rights organization based in Charenton-le-Pont, France. "Lately, almost every week, one dog has been found with hooks on the island, not counting the cats found on the beaches partially eaten by the sharks," Jouve said. So I suppose you think all these dogs just happen to hook themselves through their mouth and Gee.... the underside of not one, but both paws as well in some hen trap? Right What are the odds on that happening Mr. Suspicious... TOO WORKED UP Yeah you bet! This happened and is still happening

Hey Mike I am confused as to why you think that in 1967 hardly any of PFAL was in written form. There were pamphlets that accompanied the class they just were not combined into the one book format. but they were done by 1953 the monographs or Youth Caravan Pamphlets as they are referred to sometimes. By 1955 the second edition of Receiving the Holy Spirit Today was out. From 62 - 66 Studies in abundant living series were printed covering a good portion of the class.

I'll answer your question speaking for myself of course. You see that's where you just still don't get it, maybe you don't wish to I don't know. I have never "come out" in support of a man, VP does not need my support He's dead! I have come out in support of truth, honesty in posting, and of course at least elevating the slope on the playing field a few degrees, never mind leveling it. The gas pump issue is of no interest to me it never mattered to me for 18 years...... doubtful it will start to now, I have my doubts it really matters much to some here anyway either, except just to have a topic to pick to death. I measure the gas pump issue by the same standards that I do for all the other way events. Can it be documented? We have VP's words ,nice but it falls into the same category as the posts here. I said so! that neither makes it true or false just that someone said so. As for the gas pumps we have no documentable evidence ,we have none, like many other events here. That leaves the choice accept it or not based on whatever means you choose to, other than factual evidence. if you like VP you may accept what he said as true if you don't you will not, you may decide to flip a coin instead to determine the outcome, heads he's right, tails he's not. You may decide that hey I'm angry at the organization so I'll decide he is wrong or some may say hey I like the organization so he's right. In the end none of the arguments are anything more than opinion ,because we have no visual documentation of what occurred on the day in question. In the end you believe what you want to ,you might just as well flip the coin.... it is as reliable. I don't need a golden fleece to see merit in his teaching, nor do I need to defend the man. I can speak in defense of the result of his teaching based on my personal experience with it in my life ,did one get the desired results or not. Pretty simple. I can do so in spite of any failings the man that taught it had. Teachers teach ,you learn or you don't based on their ability to teach, not their perfection. I have never examined my academic teachers lives to see if some sin is there that should make me discard the Math or English they attempted to teach me. If the football coach was a drunk that does not necessarily disqualify him from teaching the sport and having a winning season despite his personal problems. So I support the teaching * because it has been tried and proved true. I can appreciate the man as a teacher just as I can my academic teachers along the way. I need not judge their lives , nor his not my job, and I can appreciate the good and cast off the bad. * Those parts that have proved to be truthful in their presentation.

The post before yours, had nothing to do with VPW leaving signed confessions, videotaped addendums, preditors ,sex,moneyl,ust and power. You introduced those ideas to the thread. You then theorized what some people might think, when I responded to the ideas you introduced and your theories you then claimed I wanted something . I made no such request.

This is an older story but it has resurfaced in the news as of late. Although it is not a common practise it still continues in Réunion. Live and dead dogs and cats are being used as shark bait by amateur fishers on the French-controlled island of Réunion, according to animal-welfare organizations and local authorities. Here is the link for the National Geographic article from 2005 Here And the utube video Utube

Gee if that was your point then why did you bring it up It was you who introduced it out of nowhere Raf. No one else was discussing it. It was you who said Speaking for myself as "some people" I pointed out that the opposite was true I very much support such documentable evidence as it collaborates verbal words. Pay no attention to the moonwalking bear! You then decided I wanted something that I did not ask for, a misrepresentation of what I said. I did not ask for it I only said if it were there as YOU suggested, it would solidify the verbal claims made. I made no request for anyone to prove their story. What's plain to see is that you brought up the subject, What's plain to see is that you claimed I wanted something that I did not ask for, What's plain to see is that you assume you know what people think or will or will not believe . You Don't! What's plain to see is that without collaborating evidence words are believed based on things like emotion, gut feelings, guesses, likeability all of which can be wrong. That is that which is plain for anyone to see, as long as you are not distracted by irrelevancies that call your attention away from it Yeah Pay no attention to the Moonwalking bear ...Only the mission I'll be perfectly happy to leave it out of the discussion as long as you are not bringing it up and theorizing what people may or may not believe.

Jeff I can do that for you, that would be called veiled name calling

Actually Raf you are the one who brought the subject up I did not ask for anything. I merely responded to your assumption that Quote: VPW could have left a signed confession with a videotaped addendum, and some people would still refuse to acknowledge that he was a predator who abused God's Word and His people to satisfy his lust for money, sex and power. I reaffirmed that that would indeed by documentable evidence, only it seems to be missing in action. As such we are left with words. Pretty much the same as VP's snow story one can make up their own mind if they want to accept such words as truth without hard evidence. I don't I'll leave it where it belongs undocumentable either way.

Really perhaps you would like to refresh my memory. I don't recall any hard evidence as Raf discussed. I have seen personal testimony ,opinion. Words...... could be true ,could be not. People's words are what they are nothing more ,nothing less without hard evidence they are not documentable. That makes them neither true or false it just makes them someones words. To my knowledge there is none so I suppose if one is in the business of just accepting peoples words, then they would also accept his as well without the same hard evidence. I say so works equally for all.

Actually I have been a consistant supporter of such hard evidence, and by the way I'm still waiting to see some. I'm sorry I don't believe I ever said or implied any such thing. You are misrepresenting me which by the way according to Mod Cow is against the rules here. That is of course assuming the rules apply to everyone across the board.

Karen's article was pretty interesting, and that was her take on Qumran as well. Socks you might be interested in the book The Stones Cry Out by Randall Price, it's more on archaeology in general but does have a section on the scrolls

Really the high resolution digital copies are still just now being released. I think there were others also who had interest in the scrolls, if I remember Dr. Dan McConaughy 7th Corps did some work on them.

Well you would need to take that up with the Limb it seems they thought petty cash was a revolutionary idea as well...... As such no violation, well no ticket anyway, or azz chewing

Naw I know where to find you. It's just that it was such a epic statement I had to take note. It certainly guarantees the success of the mission, after all if you can't back up your claim made, or argue your point in the face of evidence, one can always just claim they miss wrote their words. Pretty handy sorta like a get out of jail free card I suppose.

Interestingly enough in later years they published a GMIR article on the scrolls They surfaced from time to time in Way magazines over the years. Here is a couple of quotes from printed documentation. " The Dead Sea Scrolls provide a wealth of background material for first-century Palestine. If as is quite possible, these documents are not merely the product of an obscure desert sect, but of first century Jerusalem, they should be certainly be considered as prime sources for textual and background material in Biblical studies." "Whatever their origin the Dead Sea Scrolls contribute to Biblical research in a number of ways. The discovery of these scrolls has broadened the scope of Old Testament textual research and has provided evidence for establishing a more accurate rendering of certain scriptures." GMIR Sept. - Oct 86 Karen Masterson

Actually I know this might be a revolutionary idea :blink: but we bought cups and coffee from the Twig account.

Thank God I never had to rely on believing to get a decent cup of coffee when I was involved with The Way. The store always seemed to have plenty. P.S. I never reused coffee grounds in 18 years nor did I ever reuse Styrofoam cups either for any class that I ran. That's not to say I did not hear it went on in places But we bought cups by the case there was no need to reuse them. Seems I remember some branch leader at some point suggesting that we did. I pointed out it was a violation of the health laws and of course we are to obey the laws of men. That was the end of that subject.

Perhaps if posters would not inject personal opinion as fact, with no offering of any proof of said claim, then others would not need to "wrangle" the truth out.

No I agree that it is a possibility and that he has a right to offer it without a condesending remark following. Besides wasn't it you who said Very few of us here are writers by profession, trained to use their words in a precise and unambiguous manner. We write things that sometimes aren't clear, then go back and clarify. I suppose that would be a possibility for Vp as well.

But this poster has made that argument here. it is common record "that belief" is a rebutal for when factual evidence is presented and no explaination can be mustered up. It's the escape all claim that what was said and meant were different. It is common to site a prior case or example to argue your case. Whats good for one is good for another. I'll reserve the right to use the same argument.

Well I have a Disk .but I'd let you use it , I'd even give you your own guess that's the difference between us. :huh: :D :blink:

By the way I'm not saying that they will ever be on the best seller list or even in the top 100 list of Christian books. It's highly doubtful. But demand is still there for them and I've seen no evidence presented by the way for the claim they are fading GOT ANY? Even here people consistently mention that they sold their books for cash. Looks like an active market to me. Now of course if you would like to recant the argument to read among the small percentage of Greasespot posters the books are fading away , You'd get no argument from me there.

Well the claim was "fading away" not accuracy or demographics on who purchases the books, those would be a different subject. Demand for an item does however keep it from fading away. It appears the demand is still there. Who or what kind of person that is making the demand is irrelevant to "if it is fading away or not". By the way I'd tend to agree that a bulk of those interested most likely are people that were /are familiar with the books. I'd guess though that many of them have or had a few sets around as most of us did. We have no factual evidence on why they would want more or what the plans are for them, but it may be possible that it is to give it to someone that does not have one. I'm sure some are just replacements for lost books as well. In any case a defense for fading away would not be if you feel they are accurate or not, again I'd tend to agree they are not in places. Accuracy and demand are not the same issue either. But the fact remains they are in demand they are selling even now at prices above the original retail used. Any honest person including by the way book dealers ,who have no stake in accuracy or not or the way in general, can see that demand is there. There is no evidence presented that any fading is present only demand. Agreed, but if people are laying down cash for an item it ain't fading it is quite the opposite in demand. Even with the supply problem fixed with the disk which by the way has been freely distributed, the demand to spend money on an item that one could view for free is still there.