WhiteDove

Speaking of early logo's Paw this one from the Waydale move made me laugh so hard tears were running......... I love the 50's format.

We don't disagree on the subject of the tithe. He was wrong. Plain and simple.We do however disagree on the subject of John's claim which is what I gave documentation on. But then you probably knew that from the posts . I never indicated that they supported the tithe ,or had anything to do with the subject of the tithe for that matter. I was clear in what I was speaking to and it was John's claim only. Offering another subject that someone was wrong on does not however make your case for supporting another statement like for instance the one John offered. Clearly it is two different subjects. Because VP may have been wrong on the tithe does not mean that John is right in his claim VP is the only one in 2,000 years who knew all the truth. The only one. Speaking of wrong ,I guess we can add John to the list. He was wrong. Plain and simple. If you care to offfer some documentation on why you believe that claim I'm listening.....

Enie minie minie mo Lets see what J.E Stiles has to say.

There is more, But by the way what proof have you offered for your position I think I missed it..... we have audio from the man himself, a written record from his wife two different events. Yeah its pretty easy to send someone searching for sound samples and quotes so you can dismiss them with .....WHAT Is there no more? At least some of us have something..... anything...... to back up our claims. So where is it Waysider ? lets see what you have. Because I proved my point with factual record. Two is quite enough to disprove Johns theory. besides I would not want to further embarrass you when you have nothing but smart remarks to offer in return. You got nothing..... But I'm sure some of your pals will be along to try and bail you out shortly.

Such as Bishop K.C. Pillai who taught on the renewed mind By the way I just pulled the tape and here is the introduction from that tape..... I invited again this year to present to us, the one and only man I know in the United States or in the world who has such a vast knowledge of the Orientalisms the Customs Mannerisms of the Word of God . A man with whom I have spent hours and hours ,weeks and weeks. One whom has in past years helped me very much in understanding the Orientalisms the Customs, Mannerisms. And that is our good friend Bishop K.C.Pillai Recorded 6/15/69 Apparently VP thought that he helped him to learn , Gee I wonder why that was ,when he was according to John the only one in 2,000 years who knew all the truth. The only one. One would think that the bishop would be sitting at VP's feet learning the truth from him. Scratch.. scratch ..scratch... :blink: :blink: :blink: But it appears that VP invited him back not once, but again to share more truth. Sounds like a man that did not think he was the only one to have all the truth. But of course don't let the facts get in the way of the mission. Don't believe someone who was there to collaborate the facts , nope just believe a Jonny come lately with a agenda, surely he knows the all truth. Yep some 27 years after the famous quote it sure looks like VP is still inviting people to teach truth what a strange thing for someone who knows it all to do..........

Yes There are.......

Ok, VP was a pastor for the E & R church whose loyalty and or commitment to the church was questionable. and was at the same time developing another ministry that he later resigned from his pastor position to undertake. Above is what John said "the only one" John was not there ,however Mrs. Wierwille was, there is no mixed message in what she wrote. John may wish to think None of us really know what he was claiming in 1942, because his records are contradictory ,because it agrees with his mission. But the one who was there an eyewitness no less tells us

Or maybe it is because speakers were invited to The Way Hdqts because of the audience size ,recording capacity, meeting space and other things that you small program did not offer. The fellow laborers in Kansas was not all that huge either.

As I noted until 1957 Aug 7th VP was a paster for the E & R church However the India trip was sonsored by the All India Federation of Churches not the E & R Church. If you look in your book pg 173 you will see that in a Way newsletter dated March 1956 he spoke of the trip. also pg 215 his resignation letter reads Because I believe God would have me devote more and more time to this non-sectarian,inter denominational work of The Way Inc. International to writing and teaching , and thus I would have to be gone from the local congregation for weeks and even months at a time, therefore....I tender my resignation It is pretty clear that he was a paster on one hand for the E & R church but was was also doing his own thing on the side. They were having board meetings, and publishing way newsletters. I'd say that is part of his debatable affiliation. It sounds like his time was split between the two, and clearly by his letter they were aware of the other side work. He also booked his first speaker of the spiritual 40 club not at his church but a methodist one that he borrowed for the occasion.

And? The number of people is not in question? Nor is who? Those are straw man arguments that have zero to do with the claim made which is the issue being addressed as true or false. how many guest speakers addressed Fellow Laborers was never any part of the claim. Neither was the price of eggs in China.....No one ever spoke in my area as a guest either not the point. The claim is specific after the 1942 quote VP clearly said that he was the only one in 2,000 years who knew all the truth. The only one. If he learned one thing, from one speaker then he did not know all the truth..... I don't believe that VP ever indicated that he did. As such the claim is false.

Oak The claim was The event mentioned as you noted was in 1942. Who VP worked for is not in dispute, and not part of the claim the time frame is as the quote specifies. From 1942 on. The "Spiritual 40 Club" operated during Wierwille's days as an E&R Church pastor starting in January of 1952 Starr Daily was the first speaker. It's debatable as to his affiliation with the church at this point as they were already publishing Way magazines around this time. And even Starr's presentation was not held at the E & R church but at a Methodist church that VP borrowed for the occasion. Technically you are correct as VP did not resign until 1957 from the E & R church. I don't know by what name if any they referred to it when speakers came in to teach later on but the process continued into the 60s and 70s I have a tape (actually now a CD) of Bishop Pillai teaching The Renewed Mind at The Way International in 1969 as well as some others in the 70s . Regardless of the church affiliation or name of the program the claim made was that after the quote in 1942 VP was the only one who knew all the truth Who he did or did not work for is not the claim made and as such is a distraction or straw man argument. VP was the only one in 2,000 years who knew all the truth. The only one. Had that been the true then he would have had no reason to have others come to teach, since he already "knew all the truth" He would have simply taught it himself, yet Mrs. Wierwille clearly records that VP believed these speakers had a vital message and we could learn from them .That does not sound like someone who thought that they had all the truth from 1942 on as it was now ten years later and he was still learning. John's statement is incorrect and it's not the first one. In and of itself it is not a big deal we all misspeak, the problem and I personally believe it shows motive, is that these errors are never corrected. Normally when one misspeaks they just correct the error , and yet it appears that John does not seem to care to do so. Personally I think that shows his bias toward the truth, say whatever and if it is not true then just make it up as you go along. The record is clear that for some 30 years, after the point where John maintains that VP claimed he knew all the truth his actions did not coincide with John's claim VP clearly was learning more truth by inviting speakers to teach at whatever location.

Happy Birthday! Hope the day was all you wanted it to be.

And don't forget the Spiritual 40 Club. Mrs. Wierwille writes in her book Born Again To ServeThe Spiritual 40 club was made up of people interested in inviting speakers whom Dr. Wierwille believed had a message that was vital and from whom we could learn more about God and His Word. Sounds like he believed that others had truth to offer as well.

The Way International is listed in he Dun and Bradstreet records has been for years , when I worked in the banking industry I used to check the books now and then. I'm sure it is all on disk or online now. If anyone has access to the info the finances can be checked easily. Here is their listing online and some ideas on things that they track and are accountable for. Someone in a bank could probably access this stuff for free. It used to be in the books and once you bought the yearly book that was it . Of course the books were expensive. D & B The Credit union is listed seperatly as well. Way Credit Union

Sept 29th is the feast of St. Michael the Archangel, so of course being good Catholics my parents named me Joe. Not really!!! I've heard the date for Jesus' birth as the 29th I think Bullinger lists it as so if I remember right. Michael is known as the defender of the faith as well. Some might say I got the defender part down anyway Don't get too excited about the Strange One Rainbow he was just sending Birthday wishes in his own way. I bet he might even have a rainbow snow cone for you. Besides what's a birthday thread without a food fight anyway.......

No that's not what I said, Nothing wrong with helping people, butfor someone to expect that all their obligations should be somehow covered by a church is silly. To look at a church asset and assume that you should be ,and everyone else should be provided with the same things is beyond logic.

Now I can add this to the list of reasons to come here......Reminder that it is your Birthday Thanks for all the kind wishes ........ Senior discounts !!!! :blink: :blink: Perish the thought, No No No I will not go quietly "Better to burn out than to rust away" Neil Old Young

Hey Guys the video from the shoot for Dreaming of You is up here. Different seeing all the pieces put together. Wish they would have used the shot of Harry playing guitar in the desert between shoots. Video Here Harry Link

I suppose one could call it that. I'd specify in certain situations as well, If one complied. And I don't believe that they were the force behind it, so I'll refrain from giving the credit to them.

Hey you ! Happy Birthday!!!!!! Ok so I forgot to call ,but I have a good reason I forgot what day it was...... You were probably out partying I mean running anyway. Well my Birthday twin we are both another year older and I'm sure you are wiser. Ok and better looking too. Hope the North Country finds you warm tonight. Much Love Always - ME

Ok Frank so they give you a spare car that satisfies you. What about the next 200 behind you and the 200 behind them? Now lets swich to other items like houses medical care and on and on It is impossible to care for everyones lack, nor do I think it is their job.

So its hard? Life is Hard AND???? And yet many seem to find a inner strength to do so, Don't they? I say good for them. It certainly must be possible The Allens seemed to find a way ,so did January and some others on the horizon maybe Oh and by the way my response was to the same old tired close minded intimidation, manipulation, abuse and on and on rap.

Ross was functioning as a Limb leader for the Way as such it was not a personal decision. He was not the only one to do so Bob Wi*ngarner paid to house some believers here in a hotel that had a fire in their house until repairs could be made. K*n Bro*n also did the same when he was here. I suspect in your time that was true, but it was not always that way.

The primary purpose in churches is not to fix someone's car. Ministries need money to function. There always will be someone in line that thinks they are owed a free ride, our country breeds this mentality with its social programs. I took my car in recently for some repair work funny I did not see the United Fund at the counter offering to pay the bill either. It is ridicules to think that they should somehow care for your personal items.