WhiteDove

No it was ABS money The Way of Kansas paid the Branch bills here first, what was left the went to the Limb in Wichita where state bills were paid, then to Ohio for International bills. Later on that did change to a centralized system in Ohio. But then hey what do I know I just live in Kansas.........

I seen none of those here, as I have often pointed out there is no facts presented, no evidence per say only the words of posters pro and con. Each could be right who decides without facts, evidence? tes·ti·mo·ny (těs'tə-mō'nē) Pronunciation Key n. pl. tes·ti·mo·nies A declaration by a witness under oath, as that given before a court or deliberative body. All such declarations, spoken or written, offered in a legal case or deliberative hearing. The stone tablets inscribed with the Law of Moses. The ark containing these tablets. Evidence in support of a fact or assertion; proof. A public declaration regarding a religious experience. Here is some more examples for you VP is a (describes a criminal act] - accusation of guilt unproven by any fact or evidence thus opinion not testimony (also libel a crime in some states). testimony relates to the law and court with fact or evidence of which none is present. In my opinion VP is a (describes a criminal act] - correctly stated opinion Additional note person testimony is not proven testimony nor is it unproven either. It is words recorded and filtered through a process of law questioned, proven, matched with facts to see if it is in fact true or false. because one says so does not automatically make it true.

______________ Loading Comment TRUTHFULNESS - earning future trust by accurately reporting past facts.

White Dove, our system is more than flawed. It is not what you might think it is--in fact, the way you speak of a day in court implies you don't know the depth of the problem. It is a boken clearinghouse that really does have very little to do with justice and less to do with gleaning the truth. I promise you this is the case. Talk to any public defender--if you can catch a moment when they are not over-worked-underpaid-and frustrated. Find out about the system. I never said scrap the system. We need to reform it. Advocacy is the way to do this--there are groups out here who lobby for reform. We HAVE to overturn the laws in place that cause so much needless suffering. I am talking about laws that are actually unjust and used wrongly. There are people who make decisions on the lives of others based on politics and power. People are thrown away on another's ambition. Please consider finding out about the minimum sentencing guidelines in your state---take the time to write a letter and sign an online petition. Federal guidelines have been reworked--and retroacitvely people have been released from prision. This is an important element. If you have the death penalty in your state--find out about the system in those cases. You may be shocked as to who is executed--who is not. I stand by my previous post you can call it any name you like as I said I am aware of the flaws I'll still support it as the best we have if it changes ,then it gets my support as the best we have still. By the way I added to the board of the dog park this year as our attorney/ adviser a former Public Defender both she and her husband have experience as such. They both are working private practices now but deal with the PD every day they of course can't talk specifics but I hear their frustrations every week with the system and cases. As for TWI, Whitedove there is no day in court on this earth for VP. I know you feel strongly about this, but it is not to be. Even if it were, he had the money to purchase his justice, much like TWI did with Martindale. They settled. LCM never heard a verdict? It was enough--some kind of implied admission of guilt, but remember the court allows for this without holding his feet to the fire. Is that really justice--he walked away. I understand it was best for those bringing suit--that is NOT my point--I stand firmly with the ones bringing suit and can't imagine the courage it took to do as they did. I am supportive of whatever was best for them and their families! . . . . . But TWI kinda bought their get out of jail free card with a settlement. The ugly truth was never exposed in court. We will disagree on this First there could have been a day in court for everyone, no one seemed interested enough when he was alive. Second I don't agree that it was best to settle ,it shows to me the motive...... money, we saw how fast Waydale closed when the cash came out. I think there is a greater motive justice, they could have not been able to buy any get out of jail fee card had they not settled. Everyone has their reasons for doing what they do, and that is their deal their choice, so be it, but my opinion is that they did no one but themselves any favors by settling. Thanks but my participation is minimal compared to others, but I am especially glad to see that they get to visit their pets. I believe that this is the only such program in the state. Now up by Oakspear where I adopted my dog from they have a program at the no kill shelter there at Hearts United for Animals. By the way I know this off topic but all those who are buying Science Diet Food are helping to fund programs like these. Hill's Pet Foods is our corporate sponsor for the bark park and they also are a supporter of funding for this program as well as other community support. Last year alone Hill's donated 30 million dollars in food alone to shelters to feed cats and dogs until they are adopted. In addition to the millions they donate in cash and volunteer help. I recently met with them regarding a $10,000 donation they gave us for the dog park and we work along side of them at many events, they are a great company to work with they are always open to helping with animal care. It is a premium food and I know it is expensive for some, but I just wanted to let everyone know that the extra they may pay goes back to support animal causes all over the USA. At the corporate office here they have a group that works everyday on contributing to dog parks ,shelters, programs ,zoo's and animal causes and community support. what a great job.... Each of you make it possible to help these and other animals to have a better life with your purchase.

Straw man argument....... I see no evidence of anyone silencing any voice, nor anyone declaring that they want to ,or even would like such a thing to happen , this is your invention purely. In fact time and again I have seen people go out of their way to post over and over that certainly opinions are welcome, that is the purpose of a discussion fourm. But opinions are just that ,they are not necessarily fact, or factual, when they are assumed to be so , due to likeability of the speaker, agreement with the mission, or agenda at hand and other reasons rather than the generally accepted methods we have in place for determining what is and what is not factual then I see some having a problem with declaration of truth without the supporting evidence of such.

Yep I agree, one can pretend anything they want , it does not make it true,or false, and as long as they are not declaring guilt or innocence as if it is a established fact , implying that there has benn some sort of conviction, certainly have a right to express their opinion. Like wise others may point out there has been no such legal verdict, and as such it is only an opinion not established fact. Me too however I don't think it has beeen established that they were a TWI felon. then again it may have been confirmed guilty to your satisfaction.

Chas is correct I had such an invitation, I did not care for the conditions though , it was a one on one presentation in a 10x10 room at Emporia you and the Limb Leader, you were to be met on arrival whisked away to the room where you sat through the tapes, upon completion you , you made your choice and were escorted off campus with no contact. After watching probably one of the most vocal critiques of Martindale in the area attend and come back a "New Believer" with a 180 opinion change after the brainwashing session I decided the interest was not worth the price.

No one has disagreed that our system has it's flaws and your points are well taken I don't disagree. But it is our law ,the best we have, maybe it will improve ,maybe not. I would strongly disagree that people making random accusations undocumented on the internet has any better outcome. Without due process of law nothing gets done other than people with various opinions pointing fingers. Any system or program is bound to have it's flaws, the best we can hope for is to minimize those. There are people who have bad experiences at battered women shelters as well. Do we ignore the good done there because they are not perfect? I recently joined forces with a program here with the dog park to house battered women's and homeless peoples pets until they get relocated. they will be fed, housed and receive veterinary care while their owners are housed at the shelter at no cost to them. I'm sure some people will eventually have a problem with the program, I hope not, but it is a reality that might happen. But to scrap the system because it has flaws, would be a loss to me anyway. Our justice system is far from perfect but I feel the same about it.

I agree as long as it is discussion and people presenting their opinion, when it croses the line to statements of confirmed guilt without the above then it ceases to be discussion.

Perfect example of how the system works. Each person has the right to pursue their claim in a real court, not the internet version. They can submit testimony for examination ,they can enter evidence, present real facts as opposed to one sided opinions, and then a jury can render a verdict. At which time one can declare guilt or innocence according to the law. Wow what a novel idea........

And here I am still posting...... and being civil Sorry Doogable it is no longer worth the effort It's only a matter of time when the conversation will stray down the line I've been through it already these past days with some Mods. The mission will be protected....... The true household of the cafe will be safe once again. I'll just walk away YOU WIN........ Like Dylan said You can't win with a loosing hand....... P.S. Way brain - controling speech through intimidation, now that's Way brained........

Defining WayBrain is the topic ,not truth, or belief systems ect.

Ladies and Gentleman Jonny has left the building..... :(

You know I'd love to continue this discussion and answer all the above posts, but then in this level.... Cough Cough .......playing field it will be me who gets the repremand for answering your off topic posts. So I'll decline... I'm done ,thanks anyway.......

I don't believe that truth is determined by denominations. you may add any you like, having elements is not the same as having truth. It' is a part not a whole. The scripture is clear to me, you'll have to find your own way. And what you describe as arrogance, way brained I see as confidence in scripture.

And that is your choice me I'm comfortable with what scripture says and it says I can, if you want to refer to what some scientists said as your truth tha' ts fine by me. I don't feel the need to call it mindless as some have refered t my choice. And that is the difference.

It is not a question of feeling slighted ,nor did I ask for pro talk, I did ask that my religious beliefs were not disparaged I think that is in the rules. Those who worked hard on the new rules just settled the wierwille apologist question this is nothing more than another veiled attempt to label where that left off. . If you want to allow it it's your call. That's fine with me ,it works both ways. PS I would expect at each site for them to speak honestly and not disparage each other one can do that with out pro talk.

So we are just supposed to turn the other way while you ridicule our beliefs? Will you do the same and what is the point of rules? By the way derogatory term is what it is. That's english for what you are doing. Derogatory tending to lessen the merit or reputation of a person or thing; disparaging; depreciatory: a derogatory remark. So your defence is because someone else did something wrong it's ok for me to do so as well? Hardly a standard I would embrace.

Apparently Jesus thought that we could ..... Paul too....... I find your derogatory remarks as to biblical beliefs as way brained insulting.

Please do not engage in insulting behavior, personal attacks, and inflammatory language. This includes: calling fellow posters names labeling others with terms such as "Wierwille apologist" or "perpetual victim" making disparaging remarks about fellow posters' character, motives, intelligence, religious beliefs (or lack thereof), or life outside these forums. Implying negatives about fellow posters is also not acceptable. Waybrain is not a word it is a slang term used predominatly here to disparage others and poke fun at their beliefs it is no different than N*gg*rbrain, or J*w,brain or P*lishbrain. It is nothing more than a derogatory pet name meant to discredit those that believe in such thing as PFAL, or SIT and various other religious beliefs.

A derogatory term used by former followers who have collected at the GC who are dissatisfied with their former choices, and need to label it as something negative so as to feel better. ( see Wierwille apologist for further info)

Dear RG your thoughts will not disrupt the thread. As far as I'm concerned you can comment on this thread after all is that not what this is for? I'm always interested in any comments off or on topic it doesn't make a difference to me personally, but I suppose it does to some, rules and all).