Ham

The only difference I could detect in the few of their publications I've read.. I read their "major" work.. well it was at the time.. "one God and one lord". They DOCUMENTED much of their sources. The style of writing was better.. there was a little more continuity and organization. But with few exceptions, I felt that it is the same material, nothing REALLY new. I think it is vic's legacy, in a new and improved package. I suppose that it fills some kinda niche..

I wonder if she lived up to the twi definition.. a hard man, err, woman, to live with.. issuing one-sided edicts.. This is one reason I feel that CES is effectively "neutered". They don't have the stamina to pull off any kind of effective witnessing campaign.. besides, it is far far easier to enjoy someone else's labors. looking at the "bright" side.. I don't think any one "leader" has the wherewithal to start another similar organization. Nor would I think that he or she garner any kind of real support from the ex way community. The troubling thing though, I think.. CES tried to fill a niche, not find a mission. What's their real passion here.. is it to really help people.. and how? Just by "researching" the bible? Giving little personal prophecies and palm readings? Selling worn out twi doctrine? Personally.. I've already bought a bookshelf full of new and improved, biblically "accurate" mousetraps.. got a whole closet full. What makes theirs any better?

Now if there was a club that made such a distinction for me.. well.. well.. the world doesn't exactly seem to be beating a path to my little doorstep..

and, by the time said person did their job, i.e., brought people in the fold, brought cashola to the twi or SOME offshoot coffers, they were sent out of town on a rail: all that's left are momentus "grads".

"wowser"..

I dunno.. I think it's partly due to proposed thought that the same kind of energy, or whatever we are fundamentally made of, repels. It's a love/hate relationship we all seem to share.. Perhaps religion just gives it a rational explanation. Maybe it is an "adornment" to our already fragile identity.

but you have to admit.. there are worse causes. at least he's not preaching the pope's coming with an aircraft carrier.. I'll watch it if I can.. don't exactly think I'll get "possessed"..

something like "This MAN is the GREAT power of God" ?

Maybe I'm not "spurtual" enough. It says "sign in, or sign up" could some of you bigwigs write me a letter of recommendation?

Interesting.. I kinda think thought that the twi definition of an "apostle" was kinda shady too. Any second rate huckster who can read a few greek words, and bring some of E.W. Bullinger's "old light" to a "new" generation can be launched to stardom.. just pretend you know what Bullinger was talking about. look at loy.. through his "might and power".. he even solved the riddle of the sphinx for us poor barely deserving of such greatness.. people actually fawned over him, saying that they were so blessed to have a man of gawd that could bring such "light".. I actually thought at the time.. "what's the big deal? I read that in Bullinger ten years ago.." What I find even more interesting in your discussions DWBH.. is their fixation on "prophethood". It's the only one which by twi definition gives some half baked know it all the license to be as obnoxious as he or she wishes. "often a hard man to live with" Also gives one license to issue rather one sided edicts..

I dunno.. so what's the big difference between attacks, whether they are personal or impersonal? An impersonal attack: "sorry kid, you've got some real potential. And don't think it's anything exactly personal, and in other circumstances, we may actually have been friends. But I've just gotta blugeon SOMEBODY" Personal or not, is not the effect the same?

and they've simply supplied us with a half a dozen more good excuses.. Does he really think when he stands before the lord.. "well done, thou whoest bledest thy life out for da organization.." "depart from me, ye workers of wickedness, who refusest to hearken to da personal prophecy from mah chosen one.. even though he was on the low end of the learning curve..after all, he was just making a few mistakes.." it really sounds like even more "biblical denial". Just use a verse or two.. how we oughter get along.. keep a running motion picture in one's mind where you're at the bema.. getting rewarded.. others being roughly interrogated as to why they didn't agree with you.. I wonder how many times a day he plays it..

No, but spading and neutering might be a real option here. The old large, tired, sad cult can then live out the rest of it's days in peace and contentment, just without adding to the organizational overpopulation problem..

My, what an "old" thread.. I chose "Hammeroni" mainly because I'm a ham radio operator. That was one of the little steps away from TWI.. in 1993, I "showed up" (walk ins welcome) at a ham radio testing session.. so I walked out with a ham technician license.. and affiliation with a whole group of people that didn't have anything to do with how many classes you'd been through.. one of the dreaded "devilish" civic organizations loy warned us about. :) The "Mr." only designates me of the male kind. Oh yes.. this ham made DXCC CW this year. Well, I finally submitted evidence of making at least one hundred morse code contacts with hams in other countries. I'm still a "newbie" at it.. some have over 350 contacts- that's stations in 350 countries. Some of them are very hard to come by..

well.. what can you say. Big cults start from little ones.. so do big fish in the sea.. they were someone's "baby" once.

Life right now.. is too busy.. but I always have time for friends, when they have time for me.. :)

I was wondering when you would, George.. if this isn't the right place, what venue does he feel is "appropriate"? I can only think, in his mind, no "public" venue will treat him "nicely". Along with the rest of the higher ups. If I were him.. I'd still ask myself a few questions.. The Graesers were at least at one time very very close friends.. with him, and the Schoenheits as well.. "committed" to da word of CES as strongly as he was. They were at least once like-minded. What happened? Where did the "commitment" go, the "friendship"? friends don't exactly take friends to court, at least LIGHTLY. It's easy to just blame the devil for something like this. I think it's more along the lines of being in "biblical denial". I wonder if he's even considered looking at all of this from a "five senses" perspective..

Well, it DOES look like something I'd try..

from your article, Bumpy: "swarthier"? Thanks.. I finally got what Kesey was alluding to about the cornstarch.. but the parallels are rather interesting. They beat the snot out of each other with prophecies and religious inuendo and some maybe not entirely false accusation, and then they blame the devil for tearing their organization apart? "see, we all gotta band together on the big T truth.. the "truth" itself is at stake here.. we've got the bruises to prove it.." sheesh.

I think that's the "learning curve" JS was referring to.. a curve of destruction. "well, mistakes were made.." pretty casual disregard of human life, no?

Thanks DWBH. Interesting. What I wonder though is.. I didn't think there was exactly a "learning curve" that lasts from late adolescence into late adulthood when it comes to the manifestations.. supposed to be like "easy as falling off a log backwards".Learning curve perhaps, but I wouldn't exactly call it "normal". It all seems to go back to their little book.. The little book appears to be "untouchable" Maybe it really is time for all the players in the CES fiasco to turn in their chips..

Marlene Deitrich? I dunno. But if that's what you really look like, Oldies.. will you marry me?

Some people just can't be happy unless they are in some kind of fight.

unless one is still numb from some of loy's tongue lashings.. I dunno.. some of us thought that was "normal" "confrontation" for a while.. not anymore for me at least.

Yeah. That's what I was alluding to. Imagine.. she's trying (I'll give her some benefit of the doubt here) to raise children with some "normality" in a house of insanity.. loy's, not to mention her own.. even if they had some kinda "agreement".. it had to hurt.. not to mention her own rumored proclivities.. had to cut the other way.. was she "happy"? maybe looked like it, with enough Botox.. I really think if she found people that were happy in relationships, that there was something wrong with them.. can't say 100 percent for her, but the last branch guy's wife was like this. Couldn't figure out why anybody else could be "happy". If SHE couldn't be happy, by God, nobody else was going to be..