Ham

"WE, THE BOARD AND LEGAL REPRESENTATIVES OF STFI/MOMENUS/LIFESPRING OR MISCELLANEOUS PILLOW BEATERS OFFICIALLY RELINQUISH ANY LEGAL CLAIM, REAL OR IMAGINED, PAST, PRESENT OR FUTURE, TO LEGALLY ACCOST HAM, OR SEEK LEGAL REMEDY FROM HIM, OR ANY OF HIS AGENTS, FOR ANY ACTS OF WRONGDOING, BY OMISSION OR COMISSION, ACCIDENTAL OR MALICIOUS, OR OTHERWISE. SUCH ACTS SHALL INCLUDE, BUT NOT BE LIMITED TO: BLUGEONING, REMOVAL OF TEETH AND/OR HAIR, TEARING OF CLOTHES, BITING, LOOTING, COMMITING MAYHEM WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE, STRANGULATION, SHOOTING, BRAIN SURGERY WITH A DULL BONE KNIFE, OR BAD HUMOR. WE FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THIS "TRAINING" IS NOT FOR EVERYBODY, AND DO NOT EXPECT ANY RESULTS, OTHER THAN THOSE LISTED ABOVE. -------------------------------------- --------------------- Authorized Signature Date Now I'll go to church with you..

I dunno.. the last year or so I have had a recurring thought- the day of organizations is past. At least unless they can justify their existence. Carrying the doctrine of pfal to the next generation, doesn't qualify to me, personally. Enough doing it, how many offsprings ARE there, and some have proven to be dismal failures.. I wouldn't want to start another cult. Now a wine tasting club, that might be the thing.. smile and pass the Merlot.. I thought it interesting that someone here found some merit in a local mega-church. There's so much "available" out there, why re-invent the wheel?

More from Bill Barton: So.. you pay your money, buy your pillow, show up for the "meeting". Ah, a mere formality, sign the little waiver AFTER PAYING FOR THE CLASS, OR YOU LOSE YOUR MONEY AND ARE ESCORTED OUT OF THE BUILDING. Unless you pull three nice crisp 100 dollar bills out on the spot.. I bet they didn't take checks.. "well, everybody else is doing it, professional trainers, etc. etc.." but they are NOT professional. Admitted as such (see previous post). I think that is the only way that they could force a signature. If it was up front before you ponied up the money, people would be rather suspicious, and would not sign. Yeah, I'd sign, if they signed one holding me harmless from what I would do to THEM. Then I'd get my money back.

Welcome Kerke! I think that pretty much defines "enjoying life" around here, well, for me. I strive to take heed to these words of "exhortation and comfort" Some of us just wish we did twenty years ago.

If he was telling you, put the desire there, that is one thing. If it is what somebody thinks THEY want to do, it may be a very different matter. A lot of people leaving der vey thought that it was the lord's will that they continue the path that they were on. I think that is a little presumptuous.

http://www.uia.net/~messiah7/brk_fringepsych.htm More from the same: I haven't heard any rebuttal- I can only assume that this is typical of the momentus "experience", and J.L. and crew did "participate" in these early days the story here describes. Honestly, I don't need to pay somebody $150.00 to learn how to beat on a pillow and scream..

Here are a few quotations of the hold harmless agreement http://www.uia.net/~messiah7/brk_unethicalharmless.htm Theoretically, they could beat you to a bloody pulp, and you have no recourse, if a judge and jury would hold the agreement valid. "standard of care"- no professional standard. Doesn't sound like a "church" I would want to have anything to do with.

"wasted resources" "money spent on vacations, parties, turkey for a thanksgiving meal that you won't be in town for, in short, spent money on anything except for der ministry that taught you der verd"

We were even taught what they were SUPPOSED to sound like.. exhortation, comfort.. boldly.. "prophecies may contain sections of scripture.." "always in alignment with the word of God (vey doctrine).." I haven't heard the latest "manifestations", but at der vey I would imagine they are abundantly peppered with "Da Household" and "prevailing". They wouldn't want to ask me to give a "prophecy" anymore.. "get off your sorry *ss, shed your farking religious veneer, and DO something. Do something for YOURSELF, go to school, get some credentials other that the rubber stamping and posturing you gain from your organization. And then MAYBE you can help somebody else, without causing too much damage. And for God's sake, quit telling people to beat pillows and scream 'mommy mommy mommy'..." OK you biblical scholars, try to find something between Genesis and Revelation that THAT contradicts..

I dunno.. the old philosophy of "fake it till you make it" of the late 60's may work for a lot of things, but not prophecy. "grow as you go.." "prophecy is always guaranteed".. I remember "practice sessions". Person has to presume to speak in the Lord's name, until he gets sufficient experience to be entrusted to do the "real job".. Makes no sense to me.

Maybe a lot. :)

I have seen the most awful, totally off the mark "prophecies" uttered with the "boldness of da Lord".. spoken with enough "power" to curl your hair, but they couldn't have been more ineffective, bland.. "ahh loves ya, mah people..." gotta be kidding..

Before digital processing: After:

I dunno.. you can "fix" a lot of things with computers.

There is only one person in the whole world whom I have met who I would consider a "prophet", and the person does not have an agenda. No classes to sell, no recommendations to take this class, that class.. no doctrine to shove down the throat.. no demands of loyalty, no books to sell, nor any claims to be "right". And no arrogance. Totally opposite life, from the lifestyle of the "rich and famous" (Graeser, Lynn Et al). In a sense, I feel like CES has learned how to channel their arrogance. That's the "mind blowing" power people feel. In my opinion anyway.

I would agree, but I think they were rather successful at portraying their dismal form of "success" as being REAL. It looked real enough to me, but I like others was rather young. Yeah.. 36 hours of class, to learn the keys to success like it hasn't been known.. a real "bargain" and shortcut. Then all of a sudden it's not quite good enough. Well, more study.. intermediate class, seminars, advanced class- Real success always seemed to be an illusion just around the corner.

Hello Quiet Thinker, nice to meet you. They were a little more blatant here.The reason that they gave us that we weren't selling was that it was because *we* were too boring. That NOBODY could stand the blandness of the fellowship.. I think she was just projecting. I think they drank a little too much of their own kool aide.. it got to the place that leadership was sold on the concept that we weren't supposed to have fun, we were supposed to "move the word". Yep.. they are looking for more gold to salt that old iron mine with..

I wonder if they have considered a home version, do it yourself experience. For half the price, they could offer a package with a "killing the victiim" book, a pillow, and an overdose of digitalis to simulate a heart attack.. "hold harmless" agreement would be required to be signed with the order..

I don't think the horse is quite dead yet. from http://www.uia.net/~messiah7/rec_mombarton.htm Bill Barton writes: I dunno. It seems to me that something like this would be such an embarrasment, what would be his motive to make it up? And Johnny boy has recommended it as late as 2006, according to one poster, if I remember it correctly.. can't find it at the moment. This is what he was promoting. Maybe this explains the board's behavior. The agression, bullying.. firing (condemning to death) those who may not be as "strong".. and it explains sufficiently for me, J.L.'s pontificating, pushy "hey, listen to ME" letter here. I don't think things have changed.. I just think they finally turned inward on themselves.

ooooooh, doody doody. Where do I sign??

Or to protect me from devils, or to give me all of the answers in life. Personally, I don't feel redemption is so ineffective that it requires such extraordinary methods to implement.

It didn't take a 36 hour class to save me from sin and death either.

Naw, I'm not bitter. I am kind of taken back with J.L.'s recommendation of momentus, though. Did you look at the link? The guy that runs it does not show very many qualifications. "ordained minister" doesn't say a whole heck of a lot. Did he ordain himself? What qualifies him to work on another human being's brain? Possibly J.L. "ordained" him? It would be like one hand washing the other. Too many questions, and they apparently aren't offering very many answers. Or qualifications. I had a thought of calling up the church he claims he did some work for, but I just don't have the time. I feel sorry for the companies that contracted him for God knows what, especially after seeing what the momentus product does to human beings. The website does NOT say "SATISFIED customers", at least what I read there. After reading about folks being instructed to beat a pillow and scream "mommy", it just kind of puts all of the things I've known and read about CES in proper perspective.

"debt" "a constantly changing concept. Last known definition: anything one owes to anyone except da ministry that taught them der word"

Yeah, that oyster spent weeks in labor for the little rascal. "no big deal"