Ham

Good grief.. and we think we are so modern. Maybe a little more educated, but just about as gullible.

Yep. "Die spiritually" kind of meant "because you intend to do otherwise with your life, and even though we don't have the remotest clue of what God wants you to do, but INSIST you jump at our every command- God wouldn't even BOTHER TRYING to spit in your direction". "Sure you're saved and stuff, but if you don't tow the line you'll wish you never went to heaven.." That was actually spoken. I finally got to the point that I figured if the Lord came back, and it was gonna be like that, I just plain wasn't going to go. No thanks. Send me to a worse place, like where there is lots of beer, schnaps, and naughty women folk, heh heh. If there is a hell, I think a lot of us already passed through it. Now it seems just like such a remote, bad, bad dream.

Community college is really a good way to go. The one here has signed academic transfer agreements with all of the big dogs in the state, except for one. Every "major" class I am/have been in has been taught by an actual professor- and most have Doctorates in their field plus some have big degees in education beside. The quality of education is outstanding, and transferrable. It's definitely a good way to go on a budget. Current costs are about $77.00 per credit hour vs. way over $200 I think- last I checked- for the big dogs.. Probably gonna really need some help when I hit the big university..

I guess whatever it took to give it the "country club" persona was a go..

Rascal, I think the real vast majority of the bad stuff came to my attention after I got out. I had no clue about the sins of Loy, Vic and crowd- or of the real horrors some ladies faced.. I think those who really knew and refused to speak really bear the blame. Sadly, that won't "fix" it either. My eyes must have been glazed over with all the stuff I saw, and did nothing.. but usually said actions were justified by some arcane teaching, "we have liberty in christ" or some such nonsense. And I trusted the friggin idiots- with my life. Suprised I still have it..

Naw, not too bad. At least it would be colorful.

Well.. good statement- don't know how well it applies. If you call twenty plus slavish years servitude to a stinking cult, like some do, sowing seed.. I have a problem. It didn't work once, and I'm not about to try it again. I LIKE the results that I am getting, at least now. I also acknowledge where I lacked results. No longer do I try to "boss" God around, trying to tell Him all the specifics of what He HAS to do. No longer am I bound to an insane thought that if somehow, by a freak of nature, and against all odds, I get every stinking detail right that magically, I can manipulate God Almighty into changing the hell about me into some kind of spiritual "nirvana"- and then have "heaven on earth" practically in spite of the Almighty. My Bible says that I have already "arrived", and that before I lifted a finger to do anything other than make Jesus lord and believe God raised him from the dead. I think TWI in a lot of ways was trying to sell to me what I ALREADY HAD. Peace with God. Righteousness. All of the good things in Christ, and more. They had no business trying to peddle what is obviously free- especially the exhorbitant fee they required. But for the topic of the thread- I think the quotations of the Bible of itself are very interesting. If you are looking for pure accuracy- and we were taught that only the word spoken VERBATIM would back down the adversary- you won't find it in how the word quotes itself. Not verbatim- and that troubled me as a young wafer.. I still think reading what is written is a valid concept. Has to be if anybody's gonna understand anything- but sometimes, the "distinctions" we think are there are not really there. Sometimes they are. Interesting- from what I remember, most of the quotations in the word agreed more closely with the Septuagint, and that's a translation, not the "original". This fact does not bother me anymore. I think even ole doc got tired of some of the nonsense- said something like "food is for eating, not analyzing".

Rumor mill was about right.. even Jim Morrison was supposedly going for the gusto, but somehow the debil got to him first..

Sweet Pea- would you consider "adopting" a forty-some year old college student? I'm housebroken, fairly well mannered, humorous, and sanitary, at least most of the time. Besides, think of the tax benefits.

Doesn't bother me too much George, the world needs all kinds you know.. I think I returned to some of my old character- just kind of ludicrous at times..

I don't know about other folk here, but I found myself even praying for the Pope a couple times today.. I'm definitely not Catholic, and NEVER would have done that when I was in TWI..

I like Rascal's idea..

Doctrinally speaking, not too many. I think a lot of it was OK, just skewed way off center as far as practical issues are concerned. I still tend to think that believing works, believing God- but I don't try to tell Him what to do so much anymore. I still can't buy into the trinity- but I believe there is quite a bit more to Jesus Christ than we were led to believe.. I don't think he is quite as "absent" as we were taught. But the "manifestations"- I still SIT- but all the others, I think a lot of the teaching schooled us in such a manner to pretend we had the revelation from the almighty on everything. Don't agree with it. I still think God can talk to me if He wants to without me having to sort through umteen different keys to figure out if I really got it right or not- and I quit acting like I'm some jackass with all the answers like I used to. I am more comfortable with the concept that some things, I do not know, and maybe never will- even if I think I "need" to know it..

The former "beloved" limb guy here probably thought George Washington was among the first of PFAL graduates..

What question? Heh heh.. This is starting to look like the * survey..

My dad was funny about it, evil, but funny, heh heh. Once he "got us", no matter how ingenious we were, he'd see a prank coming from us a mile away and just laugh. By the next April the first, we had forgotten, and he got us again..

Says a lot more than you can ever imagine..

One good thing might come of it if they win though. The money would go to far better use, in my opinion. First it would help support our hard working folks in the legal system. I used to think evil of lawyers, but not after seeing how they really earn their living by dealing with numbnuts like TWI. Any use the Peelers could envision for it's use would have to be far better than it's present apparent designation for the retirement of a few scoundrels in that overglorified dang hole. Maybe they could take a real vacation somewhere, have some real fun with it. I wouldn't care if they blew it all in a week and a half and had some fun doing it.

I agree on one point- "TWI" was a waste of time, effort, and commitment. There were some blessings- at the local fellowship level. My opinion- the love and effort of God-loving men and women were used as bait in an ingenious centrally controlled trap. How many people did we "put on a good show" for that went further into the belly of the monster? Can't begin to count. Sure, they were "blessed", got some results- but many paid dearly. Got stuck in the same trap- spending the next twenty years to get back to what it was like in our little fellowship. "The life of the ministry is in the twig"- even ole doc knew that. I think more accurately, "the recruitment program of the ministry is in the twig". Love em like there's no tomorrow, then throw them to the wolves.. in sheeps clothing. Most folks did not even know what hit them- me included. I listed the efforts I put forward to try to get back to the good old feeling of years gone by.. never happened. I ignored problems for over twenty years, thinking somehow that taking enough classes, studying enough stuff, and somehow "believing" just right would fix everything. Never worked, "they" provided just barely enough lousy feed to keep me coming back. Any more, any "blessings" I have to offer are not for sale. There are people I have prayed for, and they will never know about it- results or not. They are FREE. No stinking group is gonna use it for bait.

Rascal, same here too. I think if you were a likely candidate for "da class" they'd "love" you like there's no tomorrow. "Good horsie, we luvs you, just hold still while we get out the saddle and stuff..." I spent the next twenty some years trying to get back to the "good old days"- I now see them largely as a fabrication. The good old days never really existed. They were invented for someone else's convenience. I tried to "fix" things too. I remember praying for folks and doing the best I could for them when leadership labelled their problems as a result of lack of believing, and treated them like grade A crap. I remember treating people like grade A crap at times, too- and was convinced it was the godly way to handle things, God forgive me. Oh yes.. I was at that ROA, if it's the same one you're thinking about- old Loy saying how they just can't believe to protect us because WE were so "screwed up". OUR believing, ha. Maybe God just trying to "clean out" that friggin mess, who knows.. heh heh. It was camping tents vs. hurricane force winds- maybe the Lord saying, "I'd a get a hoppin out of the stinkhole if I was you, kiddies".. heh heh. Funny- that little "problem" was too big to ignore..

Heh heh.. pretty funny. I'm suprised Paw didn't try pulling something like that on us. Must just be a nice guy..

well.. who knows. Maybe he's just waiting for his schedule to clear a little..

Second only to Groundhog Day, I think one of my dad's favorite "holidays" was April the first. Seems he was always successful getting us to look out the window, looking for the supposed cow in the back yard, or similar fun nonsense. I think I inherited this odd trait. Even several years ago, April just happened to occur on Saturday. I somehow convinced the kids that it was time to pack up their stuff, and run as fast as they could before they missed the school bus. I don't think they have forgiven me, to this day.. Any other "holiday" memories out there?

My impression is the "derail" is just about right on target though. "I had a wonderful time, believing "fixed" my problems, therefore, there are no problems". "You may have been raped or worse, but remember, you had to have gotten a little bit of good out of it". It seems way to easy to dismiss or ignore the abuse and crap if it didn't happen to you. Seems to illustrate the point perfectly. I remember even in the "good old days" being told that so and so "just had an axe to grind" or some such nonsense. Just ignore them, they're nuts. That it wasn't "the word" anyway, and that was what we were supposed to keep in the forefront of our thinking. People with legitimate complaints often were quietly swept aside. That was in TWI-1. Ah, the "glory days".. I saw the limb guy give some "counsel" to a lady that had a guy in "twig" that wouldn't keep his hands off her. "What's the big problem? Why are you still so hung up on this sex thing? Maybe you oughta go get laid and lighten up"- I personally witnessed this in TWI-1- the good old days. This was said in practically a public setting. I would say he took ignoring crap in the guise of believing almost to its ultimate limit. All this reminiscence just makes me wanna drop everything and just RUN back to "da good ole days". Ptooie.