GrouchoMarxJr

I remember hearing a teaching from LCM sometime around 1980 or so...where he went into a rant about how we should use nuclear weapons against our enemies and wipe them off the face of the earth... I imagine he must really like George Bush...whoops, that shoulda been posted in another forum. ;)-->

Such drama!...these delusional, egotistical, morons actually believed that the future of the entire human race depended on them... -->

Several years after I left twi, I ran across an old friend who was a recent "outie" at that time...we started talking and he told me about this song...I just started laughing and laughing...During my years in twi, we sang songs that had words like..."Christ is coming", "We are sons of God with power...","Turn your eyes upon Jesus", "Precious Lord", etc....but..."I wash my feet in the blood of the wicked"? Holy crow!...Martindale was consumed with hatred...did he burn crosses when they sang it?

Didn't they have a billboard up near hdqrts?...Hmmm, maybe not. ;)-->

That's right InvisibleDan...and we can all thank Craig Martindale for pulling the plug on that bathtub filled with rancid swamp water. Had he played his cards right, they could have owned 5 or 6 colleges by now... king okie successfully dismantled everything that Veepee had put together...what WAS he thinking? -->

Accredited?...ROFLMAO! :D--> :D--> :D-->

Sorry toto, but you can take that waycorps transcript and put it in the outhouse, right next to the Sears catalog.

From the sounds of things, she's dug in there pretty well. How come Rosie doesn't want the chalet? Is her pad nice? ...and just what does Donna do all day?

Let me guess...at about 8am, her housemaid has breakfast ready for her, this is followed by her morning walk through the woods. After reading the morning newspaper and catching a little of CNN, she looks over some "memos" that were faxed into her office. After her midmorning latte, she jumps into the golf cart and heads out to meet Rosie for lunch. After her poached Salmon with Bernaise sauce and a crisp garden salad, she pecks Rosie on the cheek and heads back for her afternoon nap. At about 3pm she arises from her nap and prepares for her rubdown and time in the steambath...After a romantic dinner with Rosie, she is escorted back to the chalet, where the two of them pour a little red wine and slip into something more comfortable....

Feel sorry for?...yeah, my heart bleeds purple p*ss.

I've got no argument with JAL's doctrine. I mean, go to one church or go to another...They all have similarities and they all have differences...If I wanted to criticize a "Christian" organization's doctrines, I would probably start with the Catholic church...but that's just me.

My concern is how Lynn's organization effects people's lives. Do they manipulate people and motivate them with fear? Do they put an undue financial burden on folks? Are the followers of this group devoting much of their time in recruitment efforts? Is there a hierarchy of authority? Does JAL's group employ the same "cult tactics" that twi did? Are people being sexually abused? In other words, is it a cult or is it just another "Christian group"?

I don't think it was necessarily the doctrine of twi that caused so much damage in people's lives, as much as the structure of the "ministry" and the way that people interacted. (I do believe that much of twi's doctrine WAS very harmful)...but, nevertheless, the harmful doctrines had to be put into practice before people got hurt...and it was the beloved "waytree" hierarchy that was the beast with fangs. The control of people...their finances, where they live, who they associate with, their sex lives, etc, etc, etc.

So again, my question is how does JAL's organization operate and effect people's lives? I know if you ask them, they will say that we are all "blessed"... -->. But...how does it stack up? When examining Lynn's group from an honest and critical comparison...is it more like twi was, or is it more like a church?

Yeah...I met Mel in 1976...we were wows in Chicago...me and Mel and Penny and Debbie. Mel married Dorothy, she was a wow in the other family...Mel and I were partners in a remodeling business during our wow year...everybody called him "work like hell Mel"...really liked him...good guy.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't D.M. approach Veepee and put a bug in his ear about her marrying LCM?...and then didn't Veepee actually "suggest" to LCM to marry her? Did I dream that...or did that actually happen?

Yeah, D.M. has always been a very calculating conniver...she always covered her own a$$...but how does twi justify letting her live in the chalet? Lcm poured in millions in security and state of the art whatever...the place is huge! It's really beautiful and should be used for something more appropriate than housing the defrocked minister's ex-wife...errr, I mean "seperated". I mean...REALLY! Maybe the corps director and his staff should be in there, with some offices and a steady flow of people in and out. Don't the innies mumble under their breath about how the corps chalet is being wasted on Donna?

I think that there should be an "official" campaign, to remove D.M. from the corps chalet. Put the b*tch in one of those old trailers they keep on the back forty...that's where trailer trash belongs anyway.

I remember back in 1977, we were all walking out of the large fellowship (limb meeting), and we were greeted by folks handing out flyers, depicting twi as a cult with some pretty damaging things about Wierwille on it...I took the thing back to my room and read it. Looking back, I understand the "mindset" of the cult member...they instantly eliminate any contrary information from their minds by dismissing it as being an "attack from the enemy". The harder you try to reach these people, the more convinced they become of their erroneous position. I recall actually using the flyer in one of my "teachings" at twig concerning not being ignorant of the devil's devices...scheeesh! -->

It's a sad situation because the rank and file cult members are not bad people...in fact, there is something to be admired about someone who is willing to make a committment to what they believe in...they really do think they are right...hopefully, some of them will "wake up" before they find themselves broke and without a future. As for the "leaders" who continue to abuse them and give them the mushroom treatment...May they eventually choke on the very same horse...., that they have been feeding others for so long...

My time with Donna, was during the time period of 1978-80. At that time she was an arrogant, mean-spirited b*tch in her late twenties. She coveted after power...she explained to a bunch of us once that when she was "husband hunting", she had dated numerous top twi leaders, dropping names of 1st and 2nd corps guys. She said that when she got to craiggers, she knew he was the one, why? because she knew that he was going to "the top"...as she put it. She somehow knew that she was destined to be on the top rung of the twi ladder and she got herself there. It's almost like the story of MacBeth...ambition, power, money...she was willing to put up with lcm's adultery in order to maintain her position as "first lady of twi"...it was a simple tradeoff. Her disgust with her husband was only exceeded by her own lust for power and position. Today, she probably feels like she "earned" the right to live in the corps chalet for all the years of putting up with bozo. Of course, with her sexual orientation being in question, perhaps she is still "earning" her position as "first lady of twi"?

Maybe we could all pitch in and buy the place! We could call it camp Grease Spot...Turn the family commons into a bar with live bands...charge the locals admission...Paw and Sudo could do the cooking...

Maybe we could get the Bush twins to perform...

I do recall an incident, while in residence at Emporia. LCM had just given a "pep talk" about giving it all you got and having the killer instinct...the flag football game began...

LCM was in full stride, carrying the ball, when we caught up to him...I guess there was a halfhearted attempt to grab the flag, but it turned out that when LCM's legs went out from under him, there was a massive "pig pile", with several guys on top of ole craiggers, grinding him into the mud... :D-->

When he got on his feet, he was outraged...the game was over and all flag football was banned for 2 weeks! That evening, at our "night owl", LCM proceeded to ream out the guys who had piled on him and chastise them for not showing respect to the "mog". He was all for being competitive until somebody beat him! I remember thinking to myself at the time..."*****".

Two days without a single account...Rats!

I guess I'll make one up:

Everyone was tense when the region coordinator, rev. chitlips, entered the room. His arrogant swagger and the curl on his lips, was making my blood boil. Everyone stood up as he entered...not me! I sat back in my chair and crossed my legs. As chitlips passed through the room, he stopped when he got to me. Leering at me with his beady, hatefilled eyes...he hissed at me..."get on your feet mister...NOW!" As I lit a cigarette, I smiled back at him and said..."sure thing". As I propelled myself out of the chair with my hands, the heal of my boot was on a trajectory course with the reverends face. He blinked once, just before the sickening sound of his teeth shattering. People shielding their faces instinctively, as his teeth splayed across the room. I barely remember what happened next...I seem to recall two guys grabbing me as my boots came down repeatedly on chitlips face...

Am I getting carried away?

Maybe he should get as close to the property as possible, without going on it...then start pacing off sections of land, driving orange stakes into the ground periodically. After that, start taking pictures of the area of land that is staked off...from various angles. It will drive them nuts...

I have read these stories about how twi leaders have bullied, intimidated, and controlled the lives of many...I have heard the stories of broken lives, and of those who were trated so badly...

Does anybody have a story about a twi leader being dragged outside and getting his a$$ kicked? I mean, with all the abuse doled out, isn't there at least one story about somebody saying, "enough is enough" and giving some limb coordinator a knuckle sandwich? A jealous husband who dragged rev. so and so out into the middle of the yard and put the boots to him?

I'd love to hear a story like that!

I believe that it was about 1987 when LCM was confronted by a number of leaders concerning his adultery. R.D. was one of them and has stated so publicly. It was lcm's adultry (and others)...that triggered the Shoenheit paper, which in turn, triggered many leaders being fired and quitting. People left in droves and it was all triggered by the adultery that was going on.

Chas...of course, they had their double standards. Afterall, they were the "special ones" in whom God spoke to and revealed great truth to them...dontcha know? All I did was stand up at a meeting and say that I disagreed with something that Martindale was teaching. The next frickin' day, I mean, the NEXT frickin' day...I was Marked and Avoided! People that I had known for years were told that I was possessed and to stay away from me. Of course at the time that I stood up at the meeting, I had already decided to quit...I had Marked and Avoided them first.

What sounded like a nobel sentiment, "When it comes to the word, we have no friends"...turned out to be an excuse to hurt people. If you didn't jump through their hoops and kiss their wide arses, you were treated with disrespect, disregard and contempt. They trashed the lives of thousands of people...just because they could. Decades of faithful service was rewarded with a boot in the a$$ and a middle finger sticking in their face. Twi gained it's considerable assets because of the thousands of people that they welcomed in, with open arms...When those same people were betrayed and disposed of, the assets remained with the lowlifes.

Today, the people in my life are genuine. My friends are REAL friends and I when it comes to my beliefs, I answer to no man. There is a lesson to be learned from our experiences with twi. The phoniness of their affection, care, and concern...only serves to underscore and illuminate the true value of those things when they are genuine. Twi helped me to develope a good bull.... meter...today, I can see these grifters coming a mile away.

Sorry dude...I hope the meds help with the pain...ouch!

Makes sense to me Grizz...those bastards were always looking out for number one and covering their a$$es.

"...carnal minded, anal retentive, carpet eaters..." C'mon Chas, don't be so shy, tell us how you really feel.

OK, let's spell this out...no hedging, no beatin' around the bush...no mincing of the words... That damn corps chalet was built with MY money!...I don't like her living there...I got nothing against her kids, but they gotta move too...the whole bunch of em...out on the damn street!...or better yet, like Chas said, there's a pig farm down the road. I'd love too see Donna M crawling through the pig ...., face first, snortin' as she tried to get the half rotted apple before the pig did...SoooooWeeeeee!

danteh1...I have suspected as much for a long time...I know others here have debunked any idea that LCM is still running things...but I wonder...

Look at the circumstantial evidence:

1-If you know LCM well, then you know that he is adament about his role as MOG, in charge of twi. I don't suspect he walk away so easily.

2-His wife and children stay at hdqrts., living in the best place there.(instead of being booted with him).

3-LCM is living somewhere relatively close, in Ohio...doing what again? "Personal trainer"?...sounds like a "front" to me.

4-If LCM were REALLY leaving...wouldn't he have selected a replacement that is qualified as a leader? Someone who is charismatic, someone that people would follow? Someone of his own gender?...but if he was planning to keep running things from "behind the curtain", wouldn't he pick a figurehead, someone, perhaps who is an experienced administrator, who is not a challenge to his "leadership", who is loyal to him?...like Rosie?

5-LCM's books and classes are still front and center...When twi supposedly booted LCM, they had the perfect opprotunity to revive VPW's materials...nope, they kept everything the same (focused on LCM's materials)

6-I can't help but believe that if LCM were truly severed from twi, he would have started his own splinter group by now...what's stopping him? If you know LCM, he would never be content with being a "personal trainer" or to dispatch for UPS or whatever...he is obsessed with standing in the pulpit, pontificating to his followers. It seems more likely to me that he is still running twi from "behind the curtain" than, he has settled for a "mere job" like mortal men. Why he is not "leading his followers"...or is he?

7-Who remembers the MAL packs? When I was in residence at Emporia in the late 70's, We spent a great deal of time planning out "contingincy" plans in case we had to go "underground"...this included LCM and other top leaders. LCM had a "secret staff" prepared to go "underground" with him and run the ministry through an elaborate clandestine type system.

Who really believes that LCM has absolutely no influence on twi today? Maybe he still is running the whole operation from where he is in hiding...maybe not. I know that I am not convinced that he is gone...too many loose ends, too many unanswered questions, too many contradictions.

What do you think?

My old WOW brother...originally from North Carolina...lost track of him in Kansas...anybody know him or where he is???

I've heard people "dance" around the issue for quite awhile now, implying that maybe she should be asked to leave, etc....but as far as I know, nobody has really taken a firm stand on this issue. Now somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought there was a FIRM policy concerning married couples, when they spilt up. A dear friend of mine lost their corps status because their spouse had "copped out"...the spouse had left both the marriage and twi...the remaining spouse was told to pack their stuff and leave immediately...even though, their committment had not been compromised.

I know of numerous cases like this...it's written right in the damn handbook..."If marriage splits up, you're both out of the corps". Not only that, but "you ain't welcome here no more, SCRAM!"...is the essence of what you are told. How come Donna is still there? Not only is she still there, but doesn't she live in the "corps chalet"?...living high on the hog...living off twi's nickle?

Twi should tell her to pack her stuff and get off the property...pronto! I can still hear her self righteous, condescending tone...as she pontificated from her lofty perch down to us poor lowly sinners. Always holding everybody else to such a high standard...and then assaulting them verbally if they fell short...why the nerve of this loud mouthed b*tch...Now we see her true hypocracy, as she continues on...probably given some kind of special status and title..."Former first b*tch emeritus" or something...

Donna...if you have any self respect, LEAVE...maybe you should go back to craiggers and "work things out", go through a probationary period, and then MAYBE you can start the corps training all over again...isn't that what you used to tell people?...and who knows, if you went back to your husband, maybe folks wouldn't wonder so much about your sexual orientation.

As Bob Dylan once said..."...and I'll stand on his grave til I'm sure that he's dead."

Congradulations Shelly! I left twi 17 years ago and for me, it's been an evolution of changing a little at a time...today there is very little (if any) waybrain left in me...I have learned the meaning of the phrase "purpose within myself" quite well. I choose who to give to and why...it's a great feeling when it happens from the heart and not a religious dogma. It takes awhile for all that "conditioning" to wear off...but rest assured, it does.