allan w.

Actually, I was wondering if the allegations against LCM are true ( and I believe they were/are ), with the spread of the internet, hows come people didn't go knocking down his door either at home or at his work place to tear strips (figuratively speaking)off of him. We all learnt where he was living and working. Maybe the same thing in VP's time. F.E.A.R.? We're all pretty big at shooting our mouths off, how come no-one went around to personally confront him ??

White Dove..things change and move forward. The prayers remain the same but the style can vary, just like the music style. We don't need to continue singing hymns that were sung in 1887 for example.

However, there are a number of differn't emotive issues when praying, praying in earnest, lifting up his eyes to heaven etcc..I doubt seriously that Jesus just sat there and mechanically rattled off his prayers and worship. It should always be from the heart and I believe bodily reactions will often be a reaction to what is emanating from the heart. Another unfortunate 'practice' coming from TWI, a complete lack of genuine emotion, or rather, the wrong types of emotion.

Reason is the pilot, passenger is the guy who hasn't got a clue,lost, helpless,totally scr**ed..then he finds faith. faith is the Auto-Pilot !!

Hi ckmckeon and God bless..unfortunately you won't find much Word here, if you're still into the Word (like some of us) you can try logging onto Rafs 'Living Epistles Society' or Wayne Clapp and John Shroyer at www.cffm.org. On the forums here you'll quickly pick up who are still into the Word and others who are..well..shall we say...NOT !

Well said Pond..I would even go one step further and say that some people become almost hysterical in their need to continue living as a victim and in dismissing VPW's teachings.

Actually Belle this went way off topic because you jumped into a post between myself and Mark o' a remark I made to him that he stated did NOT offend him ( which is logical because no offence was intended !) Pop another pill and have a lay down woncha.

Hi Richard, I was involved in TWI for 10 years and left in '96. If they treat you with dignity and respect and teach at least half of what Dr. Wierwille taught you will be super abundantly blessed at what you learn !!

Lorna..welcome to the 'Wierwillite club' (according to Belles thinking !) Not very nice language either by the way Belle !!

Aaaah..so now Wordwolf determines usage of a word by the person speaking it, i.e. 'apologist' !

totally out of whack, continued intrusion. I believe they read their own mistrust and evil into the lives of others.

Come on WordWolf..you're 'pulling a bit of a longbow' on this one arntcha ! TL insisted that I refrain from replying to her comments, but that only proves my point that her and a couple of others expect to be able to fire off salvos about people and their beliefs without wanting to be taken to task for what they have said. TL stated that I knew nothing about Mormonism..she was wrong, so I responded to it.. Getting the picture ? Geesh, thats me off this thread, it's almost become something out of a 'desperate housewives' episode.!

Ditto to what Chas, Oldies, JohnIam said... and Outin88 (what can I say, I'm a lazy poster !!)

Totally agree Lorna, in fact I would go one further and say that many who did give and then stopped got ABUNDANTLY BLESSED.. for awhile, but eventually their 'storehouse' runs dry. I liken it to the prodigal son who said " Father, give me what is mine ". Cashing in your chips, calling in your harvest, call it what you will, but I've seen enough to show me that "it is more blessed to give than to receive" still holds true and as I said earlier in this post Dr. Bob Darnells recent teaching at CFFM on 'Deliberate Giving' is AWESOME.

Ex Cathedra..if some of us had been around I hope we would have bopped him right on the nose. I am not a staunch 'Wierwillite' but I am a staunch 'Word of God is the Will of God' type of person. What irks me the most are those who walked, ran to other denominations, beliefs etc.. putting down people like me.Some of you have only been Agnostics, Mormons, Catholics, JW's for a short period of time and others maybe not even as long as you were involved in TWI. Either way, don't you think it's a bit premature and naive to take potshots at posters of my persuasion while staunchly defending your new- found beliefs ?? After all, some of us could be Hare Krishnas, Freemasons, whatever by next week and Wiccas, Naturists the week after.??

Just Loafin..I never said I stand with VPW, the guys 6ft under (in case you hadn't realized) ! But I believe a lot of what he taught was true, thats what gets up the nose of the other denominalised posters ! WordWolf.. is not calling some of the posters here 'TWI/ VPW apologists' taking an 'antagonistic' and/or or 'baiting' path.? I didn't think so and neither did Mark O, just like my statement of 'Catholic apologist' did not 'bait' or 'antagonise' Mark.Careful because you're treading the fine path of hypocrisy there. Coolchef..It's o.k. you can call me Kukoo or anything else, I'm not one of the 'handkerchief wringing, thanks for your support fellowposters' type of greasespot member !!

No..I think 'disturbing' is a more honest term ! What I think is 'sad' is posters like Belle denigrating things to a 'personal level'. Quote from Belle.." I don't like you, I don't respect you, I don't trust you" As if I care what someone who has never met me nor knows me thinks of me..geeesh !!

Seems to me the mockers and criticizers have a hard time copping their medicine on the chin. John I am..some of these people are just 'pretending' to be 'simpletons' because it 'suits' their antagonistic attitude, I know it is frustrating. They cant get over the fact that some posters have the right to hold onto a lot of what Doc Vic taught, I think it disturbs them greatly (I don't really know why).

Don't think God could have trusted it to a woman second time around, they're way too emotional !

I don't mind dealing with or posting to neurotics, pscycopaths, nosy parkers, at all. I just take exception when they start pointing fingers whilst being very hypocritical themselves !! Temple Lady..I know enough of the Mormon religion to know that it is even more outlandish than 95 percent of the other world religions..Christs return to happen in America, a seperate heaven especially for Mormons, a Mormon being able to be baptised for Hitler, Genghis Khan, etc..etc.. but it is up to Hitler and co. (who are currently waiting in the spirit world) if they want to accept the salvation or not ! I could go on and on but I guess I've made my point. Nothing against you, just the utter B/S Joseph Smith bewitched those poor people with. Playing on peoples emotions.

One world government, global warming, Islamic radicalism, microchipping people, hmmmm...wonder where we're headin' ?!

Ex..same reason we don't sit around waiting for God to tell us what to do every minute of the day. We walk out on what has already been said. TWI tried to tell us what to do every minute of every day, when even God wouldn't intrude like that !!

Exactly Mark, and hopefully the 'neurotic ones' don't 'butt in'.

Thankyou Mark..I never intended to offend you by my comment, I know we're a bit more grown up than that and after reading your resume` of combat service I know it would take a lot more than that to make you cry !.. but I do take exception to the Belles of this world tryin' to start fights btween posters, thats really quite 'poneros'ish'. Maybe she would care to apologize for 'sticking her nose in' where it wasn't needed ?

Actually I took my wife out for our 25th Valentines date last night ( It's already the 15th here in Australia Bucko !) so while you're still thumbin through the 'personal columns', I've already enjoyed my Valentines !!