allan w.

No thanx !!

At risk of getting another e-mail from dodowap...Q: Leadership in LDS seem to get a lot of visits from spirit beings ?

I too think twi over-populised ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER YOU ASK IN PRAYER. I believe at times the first part of a prayer request should be for God to let you know if need be whether you should be praying for the desired result or not. I can't imagine a legion of ministering angels surrounding a sick cat when theres an atheist down the road who is ready to committ his or her life to Christ (if you know what I mean). And I am certainly not trying to be sarcastic or belligerent here, I love my Siamese cat to bits (and I have had a cat in the past that was 'healed' of a tumour when my bro-in-law prayed 'over' it. (the only worthwhile thing he ever did for me actually !!)

O.K. Mike , I'm sorry and I repent and humble myself before you. I humbly accept your doctrine, reproof and correction...can I go out and play now ??

Thats true to a point George..I can see how twi could and did 'pressure' people out of believing God any longer.

aaahhh...I think people have enough trouble figuring out what this earth is meant to be like.

I believe God showed my wife and I things that weren't 'spiritually right' in-res. When we made the decision to leave the doors started to open. As I've said before, seen enough prayers answered and some real miracles too, not that those need to convince me. Pressures or pleasures are what usually takes people out ( in it's least common denominator ). Those that believe in him will not be disappointed in their expectations.

Hey Raf..I meant IF there was nowhere else (similar) around for me to go !! Are you involved with them ? i think it's pretty neat if you are. David..CFFM encourages people if there is no fellowship close to where they are, then start one up !

If CES shared A THIRD of the things VP taught I'd still go there before any other church !

Mike, the reason I've never replied to your emails (and you've brought it up not me, so here it is) is that I think you're either pathologically 'nuts' and/or you have some hidden agenda/motive to become a cyber-prophet or something else as silly/sinister ! Still no reason for people to 'flame' you though !!

Well, theres some funny rules here on GS alright ! WW, Garth, Goey can post very personal inflammatory remarks about people and get away with it, yet Mo can get me banned for 'insulting' her religion. A moderator under peer pressure I presume.

Mo said "LDS do teach twi doctrine" Well Mo, twi and most off-shoots do not teach LDS doctrine and as you seem to like to attack VPs' teachings at any given time, I believe I/we have the right also to bring your doctrine into question. And WW, AGAIN you got it wrong...LDS 'definition' of tongues by its' own merit dictates that NO, they do not s.i.t. in their churches, services anymore nor are they encouraged to do it in their own private homes.

so now you're 'cursing' people Tom ?! What the Hey asked a legit. question. Mo's reply (between the lines) (on behalf of LDS doctrine)... LDS forbid polygamist marriages (except for leadership) who have the right to say who gets more than one wife. LDS now do not practice poygamy (but only because the successive U.S. governments outlawed it) something moi pointed out in an earlier post. LDS believe in eternal marriage in celestial (or was that terrestrial ?!) heaven. Totally contradicting what Jesus Christ said when asked the question. Their prophet Mormon found some gold plates (their founding documents) and gave them to his son Moroni who added a cupla' things and then hid them again. Moroni then died but came back as a 'ressurected angel.' Joseph Smith then had a bad trip..ooops..I mean 'vision' and saw Moroni in heaven. Still ROTFLMAOTTGUBC (TRIED TO GET UP BUT COULDN'T) Hey WW..I WAS actually born within 10 kilometers of a 'whorehouse'..43 years ago..about the time you were probably finishing your first shift !

Didn't think I'd see you 'scratchin' for a reply WW, aah well.

I won't say anything except...glad thats out in the open, people can now judge it on it's own merit. They say that Joseph Smith was born less than 100 miles from where Americas spiritualist movement began, now it kind of makes sense. Mo, if thats what you're into, more power to you. Just bear in mind the house you're dwelling in from whence you throw your stones, God Bless.

Of course you won't answer the question because you know what the answer is, along with the guy who wrote the piece on Mormonism and s.i.t. ! Even I was surprised to 'google' Ex- LDS and to see how many sites there are. www.irr.org/mit/story3.html Anyway, you decided to 'hedge' your churches belief concerning s.i.t. so I (hope) I don't see you accusing the likes of Mike about not giving a 'straight answer' hmmm. Oh and seeing as WW seemed to o.k. your 'fudging' your reply, the same goes for WW as well.

an interesting link to a group called 'Mormons in transition' and in it they answered my questions for me, thanks anyway Mo !!

So you still cannot answer my questions with a straight definitive answer ?! That speaks volumes. Any person who 'manifests tongues' in an LDS baptism is 'manifesting' in spite of, not because of LDS teaching on this particular subject. WW..no, actually for someone who tries to come across as 'intellectually and grammatically enlightened' you seem to have ignored or missed the fact that Mo is 'hedging' LDS actual definition of what s.i.t. IS and how it is USED. Mo, I can understand someone being a bit embarrased at having to defend some of their churches 'doctrine' BUT..could you just answer ...do LDS teach that s.i.t. is for personal edification, private prayer, YES or NO ? DO they encourage it as an individual blessing, YES or NO ? Pretty simple question don't ya think.

Where was I proven wrong WW ??- Mo has stated that she s.i.t. in her private prayer life and I'll pretty much guarentee that wasn't (acquired) in the LDS, in fact IF Mo is s.i.t. in her private prayer life I'd say she is 'going against the grain' of what her church believes ! So which is it MO, does LDS encourage s.i.t. in ones private prayer life or no ? Do LDS believe rather that s.i.t. is for out on the mission field that as Chas said " hardly anyone had heard of happening" ? 1 Corinthians 14: 4,5 " I would that ye all s.i.t, but rather that ye prophesied. For greater is he that prophesieth than he that s.i.t. EXCEPT he interpret that the Church might be edified" -Apostle Paul. No wonder Mike despairs sometimes !!! We have a number of people in our ministry that were never involved in twi yet to hear them s.i.t. AND interpret etc.. with such pure hearts and believing gives 'goosebumps' that's for sure.

Well, give us your (LDS) DEFINITION of 'speaking in tongues, int. tongues, prophecy' and I (we) can decide if you and I are even talking about the same gifts/ manifestations. You seemed to be (avoiding) LDS DEFINITION of them ?

When I first read the (spiel) at the end I thought it was your statement, however, if thats what LDS believe then that is what you believe also..Thanks for (clarifying) your belief. The (spiel) ranks of 'elitism', 'egotism', 'arrogance', 'ignorance,' 'error' etc.. UNLESS one happens to believe what is said. Depending on ones beliefs, decides a 'peripheral' view on it. All I wanted to do was draw attention to the FACT that although this forum is about ( primarily) the 'evils' of twi,(and much of it very true), there is from time to time very biased views of VP's teachings from some quarters and particularly from those who are as 'black' as the kettle themselves.

Sorry 'bout that Mo...that fella James Cullimore wasn't a Mormon then I presume..if that's what he believed.?

Your last diatribe at the end was quite revealing Mo ! Regarding tongues and the LDS, I'll be a little clearer. They do not believe nor promote s.i.t. as an individual capability, for personal edification etc..but rather as a 'supernatural' event that happens (occasionally) on foreign mission fields.

Thanks Goey..I'm VERY comfortable ! Also I just noticed the word 'structure' was used by Guessalot, not 'system' as I quoted, but I s'pose in this case the two words can be interchanged.

No.. they among others believe that tongues 'ceased' centuries ago and are not needed today. Therefore they have a 'problem' sometimes because occasionally newly baptised mormons after receiving the 'new birth' speak in tongues ! However, they are quickly told to 'cease'. HEY..my names not Mo !!!! (interested in hearing her version though)