allan w.

No, I don't believe 'paradise', 'nirvana', 'rainbow land' is here YET Sir G. Looking around the world with even a cursory glance shows us the reality of that, and even you yourself quoted out of the book of revelation !(and that is still future, aint it)

Yeah, I agree, I'll stick with VPs version thankyou very much !!

I think some of your posts are what Mark O' was referring to as 'apostate'. You know you really don't need to 'go looking' in other 'written works' for excuses to deny Jesus Christ. Isn't it easier to just get honest with yourself and Him and say "no thanks, I'm gonna live my life the way I want to"?! A lady I know who recently 'got back' to the things of God (in her late 50's) started attending church again really enjoying it. Her husband was o.k. with it at first but then began to get quite nasty about it ,("oh, so you're off to fellowshi* again are you") etc.. She warned him a cupla times, then just said "see you around", packed her bags and left. !! I bumped into her a few months back and she is really enjoying herself and her (in her words) sweet uninhibited fellowship with God.

Hey...geneaology is geneaology full stop. Even a light perusal tends to point out it is about tracing your lineage. Your point is like trying to say that some types of homosexuality or witchcraft is o.k. No, I'm not interested in Mo at all (although the LDS undergarments are quite 'sexy' in a religious sort of way).

Your last post sort of 'stole my thunder' Sir G. We live in a monochromatic world by sheer nature and consequences. The original paradise was lost, along with it's connection to God because of sin. The closest it has come to its' original glory was when 'God was with us' 2000 years ago. The full color spectrum happens again with 'new heaven and earth'. Until then, eye cannot see nor ear hear what God has prepared for them who love Him. Until then we see through a glass 'monochromatically'. Until then we do not know even as we are known.

Ditto to what David said. Session 12 was a 'pressure cooker' for some, that's why I posted my experience. My point was that one can be satisfied with what they have, or desire more and more 'pneumatikos' (sp ?) things of the spirit. I think those that have a hunger for pneumatikos do receive into 'manifestation'.

Well...I wholeheartedly agree with the first piece of your post Claude, but no matter how much some of the GSers' abuse me, I don't think I would condone your parting shot !!

Well I for one can vouch that not every person that thinks fags are gross and disgusting and spiritually sick is a homo (closet or otherwise).

So when did this become a 'clean' site ??!!

Well, as (I think it was Ex-10) said in an earlier post, the things are there to prove to ourselves. lds want to go around trying to prove that a spirit being, a 'resurrected moroni' swooned around with gold plates, great. I'd rather spend my time proving to myself that all nine manifestations are real and can often be seen, heard, felt, on a (sometimes daily) basis. I often meet many people who do not experience the 'manifestations' saying, "what a bunch of boloney", but there aren't many who GENUINELY manifest that say the same thing....I wonder why that is ?! p.s. I wasn't talking about lawn tractors Mo. Things of the spirit as opposed to gifts in the 5 senses realm. There's a slight differn'ce !

That is why I still believe that every b/a Christian has the ability to manifest. Yes , some are better at some manif/ gifts than others, yet all have the ability. If I am in a precarious situation, do I need to wait for someone with 'word of knowledge' ability to turn up ?? The rain falls on the just and the unjust, how much more the gifts of God.

And I think Garths' point about "a thief giving directions to the airport, is still a thief.." is pretty lame as well. If I want and NEED directions to the airport and no-one else is around to give me directions, I'll gladly take the advice. In fact I believe that if it was a need to really know the right directions to the 'airport', God would work within the whole situation to bring me to that thief !! Cause all I want are the 'directions', I don't want the thiefs' lifestyle nor his baggage, just the directions !! Hey GS'ers, w/o the Allans, Oldies, JohnIams, Ex10's, White Doves, Sudosuda's, Johnny Lingos and yes, even the Mikes, you'd all end up bitter old prunes by midnight, so gives us a break WILL YA. !!

" As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they TEACH NO OTHER DOCTRINE, NEITHER GIVE HEED to fables AND ENDLESS GENEALOGIES, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: " 1 Timothy 1: 3,4 King James version holy Bible. " But avoid foolish questions, and GENEALOGIES, and contentions, and strivings about the LAW; for they are UNPROFITABLE and VAIN " Titus 3: 9 King James version holy Bible

I am quite convinced I spoke 'genuinely' in tongues at the end of session 12 ! Does that mean I'm not a phoney ? I still believe every born again Christian has the ability, the problem is some give up, some don't understand it, others are just taught wrong by their denominations. O.k. heres how I manifested. At the end of session 12 when I stood up to speak in tongues, I thought one spoke in English and others heard it in 'tongues'. I think I had slept through half the sessions !! Anyway, Selina who had 'manifested' by session 8 went around telling everyone " Allan didn't speak in tongues, Allan didn't speak in tongues " Needless to say I was pretty bummed out. Anyways..the class had a bbq at the end, I had a beer (yeah it was pretty cool at that time ). Half an hour later I was standing at the 'throne' having a 'piddle' and I just opened my mouth and spoke a couple of words and....oh, so that's how it works..!! See, I don't believe ANYBODY gets 'missed'. " Thus is twi exposed" would have to be one of the 'lamest' comments that has been posted on this thread so far.

I don't think there's any disagreement VP 'screwed up' big time. The disagreement is where some of us are very thankful for the Word heard through the ministry he began. And I also can't help wondering if there is a little bit of the 'green-eyed monster' because of that word taught, coming from some of a differn't denominational persuasion ?!

David...is that a giant toothbrush that woman is carrying ?!

Hey Chas, just remembered the clinical name for it, laryngomalacia, (it's not as scary as it sounds) and as I said not totally uncommon. If bubs breathing does sound weird at times it could be. p.s. one of our grandsons also was into picking the bits of fluff off blankets and eating it too ! He pretty much left a threadbare looking baby rug in his wake ! Couldn't do anything to stop it and as long as it kept coming out in his poo no harm done. Kids are fun aren't they !!

George...I'd rather have 'high-riders' than wear my undies over my head !!

Hi Chas...our 2 1/2 year old is only just having (semi-solid) food but still prefers to 'suck' textured food till he can swallow it. Even now, he will ocassionally gag on rice etc.. Elisha was born with.. &$*#...I can't even remember the medical term for it now, but it is a condition where the trachaea/windpipe is still quite soft and pliable and a couple of the muscles around the top of it are over-enlarged, hence a narrowing of the airways. He had laser surgery (thank God it's all still free in N.Z) that cut away the excess muscle. The hardening of the windpipe is a 'development over time' thing. Usually one way you can tell if this condition is present is if they have noisy breathing at times, especially when they are sleeping (what the doctors call 'stridor', and apparently is quite common), but the only way one can know for sure if there is an over-enlargement of the muscles around the windpipe is a camera down the hatch ! If you want any more info just email me at awo65702@bigpond.net.au p.s. we nearly lost the little fella a cupla times as a baby, when he would start choking on his own mucous in his cot. One night in particular God audibly woke Selina up, and when she checked Elisha, he was turning blue in his cot. Selina is one heck of a God fearing lady !!

Yeah, I wondered when the next wise-a*se would show up. You've got good company now Mark, the agnostic and his aar*e-wipe !!

I think the comment of people putting VP above Christ is another extreeeeeeeeeeeeemly exaggerated argument. Some very likely did, but why 'tar' adherants of (majority) of pfal with the same brush ?? In my opinion a more accurate picture would have been to have put the popes head there. Can you do that one Mark, then we can have a 'balanced' view.

Like others, I am somewhat puzzled that if Judas merely carried out Jesus order to betray him, why did he feel so guilty as to go and kill himself ??!!

No...myself and others I know never did/do 'fake it' ! We just push past the fear of looking stupid, sounding silly, and let go and let God. Just another way ( excuse the pun ) of evidencing God is REAL !!

Thanks JJ...In 1 Corinth 14 the prophesying in a church service 'appears' (and I say appear because it does not go into specifics ) to be something that would 'hit the heart' of the person being spoken to , that seems to intimate 'where they are at ' at that particular point in time, not a future event still to 'happen'.

Not only that Mike but along with many 'poor translation' Bible versions, there are also holy books produced by denominationalised churches definitely 'skewered' towards their particular belief system, that need to be waded through and then shown to be a genuine addendum to the words in Gods' Word, or appropriately discarded.