allan w.

Clay...your posts remind me a lot of Mike..but in an esoteric sense. Whilst he propounds a 'read the book and see what you've missed that I haven't' point of view, you appear to 'throw the book out and look at the ethereal possibilities that only you and Todd can see' point of view. Either p.o.v. I think there are some 'agendas and personal motives' there.

"many are weak and sickly among you ..and many are not spiritually healthy"?? Sorry...doesn't 'flow' with me, doesn't sit right, doesn't 'cut it', doesn't make sense. I mean...really....we have as you've posted...them which are asleep/dead in Christ versus them which are ALIVE/ and remain. I agree with Goeys reasoning...One gets into confusion when one takes that which is literal as figurative and vice versa.

It would be an apology 'on paper only' imo. As fake as most of them involved. I don't agree with Mark that twi theology was the cause of abuse, too many good people including leaders that did not succumb to 'animal instincts'. Every religion, denomination, secular instituitons have their share of 'abusers'. It is the victims, not the perpetrators, that MUST keep speaking up, including Catholic churchgoers (former and current)

Excuse me...if it doesn't flow with the rest of the scriptures you know of, then maybe you don't know a lot of scriptures ?? I quoted 1 Corinthians 11: 30 (which I think is a 'biggie') "many are weak and sickly and many sleep".. supposedly by the same writer using the same terminology and you tried to brush it off as 'figurative' ?? "Them which are asleep" 1 Thessalonians 4: 15 "Dead in Christ shall rise first" v 16... Same thing meant...DEAD kinda simple isn't it ?? Then it even 'flows' with 'common sense' and the practical reality of the time period between pentecost and now !! Peace

I dunno Sudo...the first world war, second ww, Vietnam, Korean wars, Iraq even, were not caused because of religion ?? Religion is used as a 'scapegoat' sometimes me thinks.

Actually, I'll have to read it 'thoroughly'..I didn't realiise it was meant to be that soon. I thought it was sometime between 2007 AND 2018 ??!!

Goey...just wondering if you had looked at www.thetimeline.org ??

Actually, Rev. Bob Darnell lays out a couple of good replies to this question in his latest teaching at CFFM.

Hey Oaks...the last bit of what you said I think applies here. Apart from Mike, yeah, I am one that 'can't be bothered' rehashing it all. Probably due to a fact of 'finger typing laziness' !! Any 'new stuff' I just glean from the likes of Wayne Clapp, Kevin Gigou, Bob Darnell, John Shroyer etc... over at CFFM. It's true also what you said about something working for someone and something else working for someone else and that's cool.

So Belle...are you saying that life really sucks and you wish you had never been born ?? If you had a choice of never having been born or existed..is that the choice you would make ?? I seem to get that 'unthankful human emotion' running through these posts !!! LIFE IS FOR LIVING

No Oaks...I believe something is true if the Word says it's true. Enter everybodies interpretation of 'what does the word say'. So...try it, apply it, if the 'interpretations' right it should work. Who was it said "95% of the Bible is plain common sense" ? The application 'works' (IMO) concerning the 'manifestations', believing, Jesus Son of God, the dead are dead, spiritual entities, etc...

Knowing some of the people (and I use that term loosely) that have been put into leadership positions at HQ ?? HEEEEELLLL NO

Case in point...ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME. I still believe the majority of principals taught in pfal WORK. I don't believe many signs, miracles, wonders in the present twi ministry happen because where there is no 'liberty' there is no 'spirit of the Lord' - 2 Corinthians 3: 17 (boy read that one in its' context !) Now, when I say majority of principles, I am meaning some of them in their 'raw' form. I don't want to go off on a 'Mike tangent', bless him if he believes all of it, but even Mike should be 'testifying' of signs, miracles, wonders in his immediate and remote surroundings with such a continual Word based, faith based belief. Yes...I'm a pfalpp (power for abundant living principal proponent), I've seen LOTS come to pass with 'aggressive believing' (bet thats a term yo'all haven't heard in awhile !). BUT that 'aggressive believing' IS 'tempered' with a bit of " Let Thy, Father God, will be done". Sorry if it comes across as a 'recipe' of sorts, but that is what I (and others) have found WORKS !! So...to cut a long story short, no, some of us won't be changing our minds in such a hurry !! p.s. I'm wearing my old football protectors so come & jump all over me all you want !

George...are you referring to the 'age of innocence'- where men acted according to the integrity of their hearts..you know..where God kinda' winked at ??!! Before the Law sort of thing. Now we know more and understand more and can believe more. Do people really act any less brutal or less ignorant, or less egotistically, stubbornly ??

My take quite simply is that Adam and Eve WERE forgiven and went on to live a long life, however THEY had opened the 'door' for some horrible side-effects. Question for you...If you had 2 or 3 beautiful children that you loved to bits but you knew to have them you would have to deal with a naughty, nasty brat first-born, would you still go ahead and have the kids ? I'm sure glad God still went ahead with the plan, aren't you.

And maybe some people can't be (bothered) typing out why they believe 95% of 7 collaterals, JCOPS, JCOpassover, the orange book, not to mention the little paper back word studies etc..??!! This is after all a forum and not a university yeah ??

So what kind of outfit IS the Pope running ??

I did...thanks for that...I take back HALF of what I said about you !!

I just think it's a darned shame when an atheist or agnostic (no insult intended) can say it better than any Christian or pseudo Christian.I forget who said it here but they said " how close can someone get to an invisible God " ?! I agree...we have scriptures, why not get out and live them, minister them. ?? I don't need pscycho babble and mantra chanting to get close to God. I figure this is as close as I need to get for now until the 'gathering together' when we'll all be as 'close as it gets', you know. Another one of the things I remain thankful for is the understanding that we are not 'defeated' 'broken' Christians as many people think we are meant to be. Open doors for excuses and trashing by the adversary IMO. BTW Todd, Clay...what's your take on Satan ? haven't really seen you bring him into the topic yet ??

I agree (sort of). I hold onto probably 95% of what was taught in pfal. I state my beliefs so that any poster new or old who may still be holding onto the same, doesn't feel like the 'odd one out'. I feel the same way as Mark O'..I really don't care what others believe but if they want to 'attack' (and I use that word in it's right context) what I believe, then all is fair in love and war, as far as I'm concerned. It doesn't bother me if I get hounded or accused of stalking, that's just the nature of a forum full of faceless names. Regarding Abis' comment about 'gung ho'...If you read one of my earlier posts about my life right now, hopefully you can see that not everyone who is 'gung ho' (one side or the other) is living a crap life !! Did I forget to mention I ride a 2003 Honda shadow vt 750 and have an aussie bulldog named Abbey ??!! She is a sweetie, just like I'm sure you are too Abi (on a good day) !! I'll try and put some pictures up later on. Life is for Living !

Pretty much Oaks ! Where the spirit of the Lord is there is liberty type of thing. There is a LOT of fear by twi'ers of looking silly or spiritually immature if nothing happens.

Hi Bliss...I actually wasn't boasting with what I said, but wanting to show a God of signs, miracles and wonders who works with someone who says 5 minute prayers JUST AS MUCH as someone who sits up in a tree and fasts for 40 days. I think Jesus also tried to make the same point, "the son of man comes drinking and feasting and ye say he has a devil " type of thing. The Word I believe works for me (faith with woks is ALIVE)! If faith with Jewish chanting works for someone else...great. I also agree with Oaks. Comments were made with a 'special knowledge' tag that only some can 'see' because they have reached the 'right level'. Straight off the pages of a 'cult warning' book... IMO.

Oh..and your avatar sort of freaks me out a bit too.

Actually, from what I can recall, you've shared nothing about your life before or after twi. The only 'creepy thing' (to me) is your 'esoteric ditherings'...good night !

Geesh...am I at Greasespot or have I logged in to a 'Friday night frights' forum by mistake?? All kiddin' aside, the only 'rev' I got was to minister to my wifes niece who was in a deep coma (and she got up). Not technically dead though. I have heard of other churches raising dead but it's only second hand stories.