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Twinky

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Everything posted by Twinky

  1. Leafy, I thought this bore repeating. Critical thinking is NOT thinking "critically" ie, with a view to tearing something down. Here's how Wikipedia defines it (and you can apply your critical thinking skills to this definition!): Cheranne, you're right, getting rid of TWI thinking is rather like "re-wiring" your brain. This time, however, we get to examine the credentials of the one doing the re-wiring - perhaps in light of Leafy's suggestions. What has this new electrician got to gain by doing the re-wiring? What's his agenda? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking
  2. Notta, thanks, now I finally get it... All that groping and assaulting of, sorry, loving service by, young females is simply them tithing, or rendering their ABS to the MoG.
  3. Proverbs 15:1 1 A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. Don't pick fights that don't need to be fought.
  4. Twinky

    WOW! McDonald's

    Set to open next month is a new McDonalds ... in France! Right next to the Louvre, that most famous French museum. It's something like their 1,147th branch. Apparently "McDo" is very popular in France (woah, you still think French people are the gastronomes of Europe?) Apparently McDo is ultra-popular. Unbelievable. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/food_and_drink/article4560082.ece
  5. Nice posts, Cheranne, and there is plenty of information on these threads about cult indoctrination. Recognizing its effects is a way of combatting it. But my question is: what (exactly) has helped people here to develop, re-discover, their critical thinking skills? It's probably more than just hanging out with "essentially normal" people: because the cult mindset makes such people outside the group and thus viewed skeptically. Just "hanging out" with them is more likely to reinforce the defective thinking.
  6. Oh how could we all be so silly and not realize that was what that verse meant?
  7. Wouldn't it be nice if those who hold a trinitarian/non-trinitarian view concentrated on what they have in common, not what they have differences about. Establish the common ground, before exploring the differences, and the reason(s) for the differences. Jesus died for ALL of us (whether Jew, Christian, Buddhist, animist or whatever), that "WHOSOEVER shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." After that, we can do this: Ro 12:3,18 - Every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly...As much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.In other words, we shouldn't be doing the work of the enemy, the father of lies, and debate about the "worth" or another or another's opinion, but rather, should "speak the truth in love". There is (I say it again) a lot more that we have in common than what separates us. Even if what we say is absolutely true but we don't speak it in love but in contention, then we're wrong.
  8. And, of course, you'd be the one that was labelled pozzezzed. Dunno where you found the self-control not to cause him permanent damage.
  9. Jeff, that's about right. Great answer Hiway. Here's your prizes. Choose nicely. Turn and turn about.
  10. Linda, our 4 hours of private study was what we were told we were getting... and then on some Mondays we had to listen to a repeat of the SNS (because not everyone had heard it, too busy wrapping burgers/tending kids/whatever); we got a replay of the Corps Night teaching on some Thursdays; we got to do "public speaking" (how to introduce an incident about What God Has Done For Me into a conversation); sometimes we had a twig meeting, though these weren't common; and the study was interrupted every other day by us having to run across to the Way Woods, chop wood for 3/4 hour or so, then run back and carry on studying. (This was our physical exercise for the days when we didn't get up at 5.30 and go running round the grounds.) If study was in the afternoon and the noon meal overran (ie, LCM had some big rant about something) - then we had to wash all the dishes and the floors - well, too bad, that was a big chunk of our study time. Also it varied according to what events were on and if there were classes for field people (cos you know who got the joy and privilege of serving them, don't you?) then that was our study time again. It varied from month to month (and nothing at all in the run-up to RoA from about late May). Some weeks there was little private study time; other weeks there was more. It wasn't directed; we could do what we wanted though it was assumed after listening to SNS or CN that we would go away and "work" that material. We didn't get any of the classes you mentioned. But then, there was nobody around, as it were. Those who might have been able to teach had been run off or left in the fog years. There was no "research team" at all. It was "optional" to attend the SNS rehearsal (straight after breakfast on Sunday morning) (yeah, right, try exercising your option not to attend), then we had to run to the BRC to be at the 10.30am fellowship, then we got lunch, then perhaps an hour's downtime (snooze?) then we'd be getting ready for the SNS - people working in the Aud (AV, meet and greet, backstage) had to be there very early. Others would be doing other prep work. Sunday evenings were usually free, as long as visitors were gone and the dishwashing (the interminable dishwashing) was done. Yep, LCM assigned my research paper. By the time to choose, I was so beaten down and suffering from low self-esteem that I think I'd selectd soemthing about overcoming condemnation (ie, that very condemnation that they had taught me!!!). Instead, he wanted me to research "An Answer of Truth in the Face of Accusation." It started as a word study of the Gk word apokrinomai, which is used a lot in the Gospel of John (where it's often translated in KJV as answered and said). I found a Hebrew word meaning similar but not quite the same, and the project took me all over the Bible with lots of interesting side forays. I have no recollection of any "adviser" or mentor, or discussing it in any formal way, or any sort of review meeting from time to time, not even with the Corps Coordinator, though I may have forgotten after all this time. What I think LCM really wanted, was for me to do his research for him into him giving an "answer of truth" to his many critics; it wasn't too long after the fog years. Instead, what I came up with was along the lines that the answer was in the way you conducted your life - walking the talk, basically. Any accusation could be backed down if you were doing what you were supposed to be doing, according to Biblical principle. The answer is to line up your heart with God's compassion, and live that way, extending that as genuine care and love to the people around you. ...You can see why that would go down like a lead balloon.
  11. Twinky

    You Don't Know Me

    One day we shall know as we are known...slightly scary prospect. One day all hurt and pain will be washed away. Till then, we need to show a little (okay, a lot) of compassion and kindness. We all have a few hurts. We all have off days. And (like it or not0 we all need someone to be sympathetic, kind, once in a while.
  12. From other threads, I am reminded that we listened to SNS tapes during our Mondays. That was because we had spent our Sundays doing things like preparing burgers and wrapping them in foil for giving out after the SNS, and preparing vats of coffee. Seems to me that this is perfect training for a job in McD's. So you see, there were real practical benefits to the training. (gag :wacko: )
  13. THW have you disabled your PMs or is your inbox full? Anyway, I was in rez 4 corps after you. Usually to be found behind some sort of beverage serving table, LOL.
  14. I'd be more interested in knowing how many twigs he and Mrs "hopped" to, on any motorcycle. A doughnut to the one who gives the right answer.
  15. So now we get to thump BG on the head, as well? :unsure:
  16. From the thread "For those of you just joining us..." in ATW:
  17. Well, who knows,, THW, maybe we met. When I was in rez, I spent a lot of time getting ready for SNS one way or another. At differing times, this might include making up vats of coffee, or wrapping burgers in foil, or preparing other stuff to hand out to people leaving. At the time, I was impressed (though somewhat amazed) that people should have the dedication to drive so very far to come to SNS. And I was pleased that we could freely give coffee or burgers or whatever to such dedicated people. Of course, now it's clear that it wasn't dedication but compulsion that brought those people. And a cup of coffee after the SNS was such miserable recompense for the cost in time and actual expenditure for people to get to SNS. Anyway, FWIW the coffee and burgers that I put together for field folks were made with love and respect (on my part, anyway). And it was nice to see you, to see some fresh folk, even if some of you didn't for obvious reasons hang around for long.
  18. Okay, this is not about whether or not Christianity is true or not, whether it is a valid world-view or not. It's quite simply about how we can regain control of our own critical thinking skills. You know, the sort of thing that might make you look at the TV and think that the presenter was talking rubbish; the ad was over-selling; or even, whether it was safe to cross the road. What helps you evaluate ... anything? (Especially your TWI beliefs. Not "what are you evaluating"!
  19. Am hoping that this thread will prove useful to those who are newly out or still recovering. Please keep ideas flowing. Right now, for me, at this stage having a non-Christian friend who is very intelligent and quick thinking is helping my critical thinking skills. My friend is respectful of my beliefs but his pithy summations of something I say make me cast around in my mind to think, "Why did I say/think that? Iron sharpens iron. This wouldn't have helped me at all when I first got out; I would (and did) just trot out the "party line." I needed to see the double standards of TWI first. (Thanks to all at the Cafe!!) Interesting that Christian friends don't bother to challenge anything, assuming that I believe the same as them; or they just give me an odd or pitying look. They never ask why I might believe something different from them and they don't want to explore their own beliefs. It's that wishy-washy leave-'em-alone attitude that caused me to receive PFAL with such interest.
  20. Geisha, are you speaking some other language??? I missed a lot of that, too. Berlin wall coming down? Scarce a mention of it! Learned of that with some surprise years later...am still not sure it has really happened. There was a brief mention in a Corps Night teaching - along the lines of, "It's devil spirits messing about. You know they only let go of that because there is something worse coming along." Maybe that was "meaningful" to field Corps, but to in-the-dark in-rez Corps it was bewildering. But Mt St Helen's blowing - that was a biggie, because LCM went there and prophesied to the women at a branch meeting thereabouts that their unborn babies would all be okay. He had revelation to say that none of them would suffer as a result of the eruption. We also watched a MJ video: "You can always learn from something done well. He can really dance!" (from one who certainly could not dance)
  21. T-Bone, you do make me laugh! Academically appropriate classes...LOL Redemption for the German shepherd dog...LOL big time As to the CV hole - being as I live overseas, I can get away with that...sort of. Got to account for that time out somehow. Ah! I know! Call it intensive training in sales techniques. Seriously: my research paper wasn't on anything that you might find in PFAL. In fact, my choice (which was on something from that) was specifically overridden by you-know-who. That's why I think he was trying to pick my brains.
  22. That would have been interesting, TheHighWay. But no... J0hn S was long gone. I used to enjoy W@lter C-mmins's articles in GMIR in the Way mag ... but they disappeared without explanation. Think he would have been an interesting teacher too. We never produced any written work or had any private study checked, unless it was to see that we had all learned our retemories and such like. The best bit for me was producing my research paper. I was given a topic by LCM and pursued it with diligence. It became really interesting, but probably not at all in the way he'd intended. I knew what he intended: but I ended up all over the OT and learned some really great stuff about what it meant to be a real leader, shepherd, carer, pastor, of God's people; and very specifically about leaders "walking the talk." The paper was quite widely read, apparently; several people who I hardly knew came up to me and said it was a good paper and they liked the bit about ... or ... (How had they seen it? Who'd showed them?) Thinking back, though, I don't recall any acknowledgment from LCM. Certainly no "bless note" or written acknowledgment. Was just too busy to think about it at the time. Perhaps he was too busy too, with preparations for RoA, but hey, who was in charge of the timetable for getting everything done? Never got it back, either. The thought just occurred to me that perhaps LCM never even read it, just hived the task off onto someone else to let him know if it seemed any good. But he personally had given me this topic and he knew my secular background. At the time, I'd wondered how much of what it might have ended up in some of his own supposed research, had I said what he'd wanted. Since earlier Corps don't seem keen on posting about what their "curriculum" was, is anybody willing to tell what their research paper topic was?
  23. Loss or dulling of critical thinking skills is a recurrent theme in a number of threads. And in reading post-cult self-help type of material, it’s apparently widespread among cult survivors. The cult perpetrators reel victims in little by little, eroding their thinking skills and replacing them with cult dogma, us-and-them thinking, undermining outside sources, and gradually making the cult itself the sole point of reference – even, as in TWI’s case, the sole point of reference in interpretation of the Bible. We learned to ignore the “red flags” that would signal danger to our critical thinking skills and we learned to ignore any kind of intuition, previous thinking, boundaries taught to us by parents or by society. The secular knowledge we had acquired, some by diligent study over many years, was mocked or considered worthless. Some of us had professional skills – I know my profession was frequently derided. There were times where, if I showed any thinking that might be based on previous life or professional experiences, I would be beaten down by those who had no training or knowledge in this particular area. Many of us here can tell of similar experiences. There are examples too numerous and too silly to mention. I trained in a profession that requires quite carefully honed critical thinking skills, an ability to read and interpret, an ability to see through lies and deceptions and to ask the right questions. I knew what was in my expertise, and when to refer to others who were specialists. Why did I not see through the TWI bs? I interpreted the “red flags” as mistakes by others, or inexperience; I interpreted the mistakes in PFAL as being “slips of the tongue” in a live film recording (since some of them don’t appear in the orange book); I interpreted differences from mainstream Christian dogma as being indicative of better research (I was never convinced, for example, about the trinity; and I’d already wondered way before ever hearing of TWI why Jesus was crucified “among” not “between” the others). And mostly I really wanted to know more about God and the Bible and TWI/PFAL seemed to be an authoritative source; where I could think that the “red flags” were simply my own inexperience in this area. It is a pleasure to be “out” and able to think again, to consider other points of view, to re-think TWI dogma in the light of other Christian thinking, in the light of secular thinking … to just think. To engage brain. I feel I am still a long way from being as sharp as I used to be (age, maybe?? LOL). I’m just wondering what people have found most helpful in recovering those critical thinking skills.  Partly it’s learning of the errors in PFAL and TWI dogma.  Partly it’s reading books like “The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse” and other self-help literature.  Partly it’s considering other Christian (and other) points of view.  Partly it’s discussing and reasoning with non-Christians the things that don’t seem to make sense from a non-Christian point of view – in fact, asking those questions that I’d once asked but never got answers for.  And, of course, considering other points of view right here at the Café. Because I know to some extent where you’ve come from, and yet you may now think something different. I’m not asking for self-help or what you’ve done since you got out; I’m asking what helps you develop your critical thinking skills. How have you tuned your bs antennae?
  24. Even when I was "in" most folk in TWI had no concept of International Outreach. They had no idea where most other countries were. There was a map of the world inset into some oval table in the Auditorium - with some countries not even shown even though there was space to put them. Hello, hello! There is a world outside the USA, and it's not just for dropping bombs on, either. The outreach model demanded by TWI didn't really work overseas (come to that, it wasn't so effective in the US, either). Door-knockers and people accosting potential recruits in shopping malls: not quite the European thing. Most of Europe was "written off" by VPW and/or LCM as being "spiritually dark" because they weren't interested in the high-pressure sales techniques used by TWI. Guam was counted as an international outreach country but it was really only noticed because US personnel were stationed over there. Anyway, back to the point: there are still some Way-affiliated fellowships in other countries. There is also a not insignificant number of splinter groups led by WC or sometimes not even WC. There's quite a brisk "outreach" in hooking these up together, but as individual fellowships or ministries. There is a surprisingly high number of Wayfers or exWayfers in most European countries; also in some African countries. Some Europeans have set up fellowships or ministries. Some have gone back to mainstream churches.
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