Twinky

Hey, I just found this. Did you get to see the whole movie, Kimberley? I saw it years ago (at the movies) and it's so memorable. Really enjoyed it.

I want to be someone who forgets this within 24 minutes.

...as opposed to walking all over the Bible, which is what TWI and splinters do?

Oh, anything to get a bit of money, and to increase the bondage upon the people providing the money. Some years ago, I got in conversation with a young Muslim woman - we worked at the same office. She told me that under Muslim law, everyone is required to give away 1/10 of his or her income. -To whom? I asked. -To anyone who needs it, she said. -Not to the mosque or Muslim leaders or charities? -No, wherever you want. -Can you give it to some local charity or to your friend or to your family? -Wherever you want, it can be anywhere. You're just supposed to give away that much. I was still rather Waybrained at the time, but it struck me how much freer she seemed to be that Way people. This from a lass in her mid 20s, with lowish-cut top and ordinary pants/trousers, bare-headed and made-up. Went to the mosque but enjoyed life too.

Weasel. As in "weasel words". Weasel words is an informal term for words and phrases that, whilst communicating a vague or ambiguous claim, create an impression that something specific and meaningful has been said. Weasel words manage to vaguely imply meaning far beyond the claim actually made. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_words You know. Like on the Green card.

Rummie - happy to help, but you might find the following links useful. Not the obvious grocery store: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss?url=search-alias%3Dgrocery&field-keywords=patak+mango+chutney&x=0&y=0 http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss?url=search-alias%3Dgrocery&field-keywords=patak+lime+pickle&x=15&y=17

Thanks, Belle Three income streams: (1) Social Security - so someone must have paid sufficient contributions; (b) TWI pension plan - woah, a pension plan is available, huh? (3) Mrs Wierwille's assets - uh, what assets? The family farm had been given over to TWI. Are we talking about the mothballed motorcycles, or what? How come she had any assets to speak of? Inherited from VPW, who cajoled them as free-will gifts out of "his keeds"? The letter presents a good argument. And Alzheimers sufferers are very hard work. However, as Mrs W had been "public property" for many years, it's a bit disingenuous to now call this "a family matter" - after all, aren't we all family, LOL? A magnifying glass is needed to be able to read between the lines and see what they are really saying.

RumRunner, I'm joining Kimberley beating your door down to share your meals....! Are you providing personal wheel kits so's people can haul their bellies around, after that enormous week of feasting?

Duck crown = basically the breasts off a duck, removed from the carcass. No wings or legs, just straight meat, in one lump. Joint of pork = a lump of pork (sometimes, though not in this case, with the bone still running through it.) Joint of beef = lump of beef. George, like steaks before they are cut into steaks. Curries = now surely you know what a curry is. One of these is Chicken Makhani (=in rich tomato sauce) and the other is a Veggie Dhansak. The smelly thing in the fridge was either a marrow, well really an overgrown courgette) which was quietly liquifying, or a bowl of beetroot that needed boiling up.

Shell, just found this and couldn't draw myself away. You write so well that your pain, confusion, despair - and now happiness - all show through. You've suffered some horrendous treatment; congratulations on surviving and now thriving. Your tale brings tears of sorrow to the eyes, anger at the ill-treatment, and laughter at your bizarre escape. All the best to you and Jeff. PS What an awesomely beautiful photo of your daughters!

In the fridge: milk, lots of vegetables, boxes of fruit juice, cheese, a few condiments, two sausages. And also something that smells horrible that I must investigate this evening. In the freezer: milk, bread, a duck crown, joint of pork, joint of beef, two curries, box of meatballs in gravy, butter, a whole trout, a few trays of ice cubes, some homemade stews in small portions, some homemade soup in small portions, other odds and ends. The milk and bread are bought when they are on special. Well, most things are really.

Abigail, sorry for your loss. Your uncle has died, "full of days" and peacefully at home. That's a comfort to know. And that sounds like one interesting family you have there!

Have a great day, Paw. In view of your wonderful efforts on the diet, I'm not sending you some birthday cake, but may I have the next dance? :dance:

So what'd'ya tick, Ham? "Other" - which might include Planet Xenu? And "Other" for racial group, since Squirrel wasn't one of the choices?

To be sure, some here are negative, angry and bitter, about the whole of their TWI experience. A good many of us are not. But we do take negative, angry views of TWI's abuse of people. (And it certainly has been abuse!) But heck, God has negative, angry views about abuse of people! And just ask her how many times, Rev (?:P) Craig Martindale expressed negative, angry views about so many people. I heard more abuse, slander, foul language, anger from that man than I've ever heard before. Foaming at the mouth in his so-called "spiritual anger." If she's been in 20 years, she's seen plenty of that. Part of her difficulty may be that she has suppressed genuine emotions, concerns, and questions for so very long. And these have been replaced by fear of doing the wrong thing, asking the wrong question, and not doing exactly what has been "suggested" to her. Women were systematically put down and their confidence eroded - they are supposed to "submit" to just about anything. Waybrain takes a lot to overcome. To start with, right now what she's been taught is her her "security blanket" and for a while she might become even more Waybrained as she does her best to hang onto whatever she thinks she knows. How quickly she overcomes this may depend on why exactly she left. It seems to have been of her own accord, but something was the last straw. PM me if you like.

Hap, yes, the export of criminals as slaves, and of small children...to fill a newly-stolen land... not very polite (Brit understatement). Antipodes from Britain is usually considered Aus/NZ and islands thereabouts. Not usually South Africa. Kimberly, yes, there is "English" and there is "American" or "American English." And also idiomatic constructions in other English-speaking countries as well. The differences can be fun. When I was in rez, it was easy to bewilder or be bewildered by, to offend or be offended by, use of normal English expressions, whether Brit or antipodean, compared with US English. Of course, one could always say, "Where's yous from?"

Soul searcher, you might find these links interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethelbert_William_Bullinger http://books.google.com/books?id=2tAAOvvCgTwC&printsec=frontcover&dq=isbn:0825423724#v=onepage&q=&f=false It was reading notes in The Companion Bible that made the Bible begin to have meaning for me - in Leviticus, of all places!! Although many Way folk had copies of the CB, Bullinger's notes in the CB were often presented as "research" by TWI. Juanita Carey, referred to in the footnotes of the first link above, author of the second book, is (I believe) an ex-Wayfer but her book seems to be the biography available. Hey, SS, you don't need to worry about reviving "long-dead threads," either. They can be really interesting.

Unsurprisingly, overwhelmingly from the USA, at 82%. Also overwhelmingly white/caucasian, which is a little disappointing but don't know if that's because TWI was not attractive or welcoming to non-whites; or GSC is not attractive to non-whites, or maybe non-whites have "got a life" elsewhere by now (shrug). Or maybe many other reasons. Would the antipodean please PM me and introduce yourself? Whereabouts do you live? Bolshevik - hope you've discovered by now that antipodeans are interesting characters in their own right, though with perhaps not as much variety as anthopods. Here's a little anthropod summary for you:

Your friend will need a lot of time and patience. It's no easy thing, losing the ministry, church, what-have-you, that has been such a big part of one's life. Losing a husband, who has been another big part of one's life. Losing a significant part of one's own thinking ability, crushed beneath the weight of legalism. It may help to point her to the Cafe, where she will see that what has happened to her is part of a pattern of behavior towards women. It may not help. Be a friend, if she will let you. Even if she won't. Expect erratic behavior. Be very patient, very kind, very gentle.

The "health and wealth" that T-Bone refers to is, in my opinion, overrated and not at all what is promised. God never promised anybody pots of money. The streets paved with gold are in the book of Revelation, not in the epistles or gospels. Too much emphasis is put on physical wealth, in the TWI version. And there is not enough "giving." Except to TWI, that is. Folks, think how much you have! How many rooms in your house? How many cars in your garage? How many clothes for your body? How much access to healthcare, clean water, food? Think also how impoverished some Christians in other countries are - maybe no shoes, maybe as much food for a week as you might eat for a snack between meals. Your physical wealth may well be at the expense of some poor soul in a third world country. And yet - many of those people are so thankful for the deliverance, the clean hearts, the forgiveness of sins. Some are imprisoned, persecuted, ostracized from their communities. They consider themselves blessed, not punished for their lack of believing. Prosper is an old English word that just means "does well" with no implication of financial doing well. Chambers Dictionary: prosper verb (prospered, prospering) 1 said of someone: intrans to do well, especially financially. 2 said of a business, etc: to thrive or flourish. ETYMOLOGY: 15c: from French prospérer, from Latin prosperari to succeed. My great grandfather's greeting, and his son, my grandfather's was, "How're you prospering?" meaning exactly the same as "How're you doing?" It doesn't mean, how's your bank balance? A plant can "prosper" in the garden. If you're going to use an archaic version of the Bible, ascribe meanings to the words that are archaic. For instance, New Living Translation says this: "Dear friend, I hope all is well with you and that you are as healthy in body as you are strong in spirit" NIV says: "Dear friend, I pray that you may enjoy good health and that all may go well with you, even as your soul is getting along well." This material prosperity aspect was heavily pushed in PFAL, and also in a lot of other US televangelist church doctrines. It ain't so, folks. The disconnect that bad things can and do happen is hardly mentioned. Yet these bad things are a "promise" in the gospels, by Jesus himself. Witness the lives (and deaths) of the early Christians. Witness the life of Paul as set out in Acts and the epistles (stoning? shipwreck? false imprisonment? despised by many? penniless, at times?). Witness - Hebrews! TWI would not like to scare people off by laying out that bad things happen too. That "the adversary" will score a direct hit once in a while, and lots of indirect hits. Instead of God's grace, freely given, in always seeing us through - we got "God's legalism" - "You must believe this for that to happen." Live life, stay faithful, stay thankful. Goes a long long way.

Just an update on this woman. She has an album due to be released on 23 Nov, ie, next week - and it is already a chart topper! (emphasis added) So, Grease Spotter fans - your chance for your very own piece of Susan.

Welcome, Soul Searcher. Enjoy looking around the Cafe. You'll find a variety of views represented here. Some still harbor Way-like views, and others will run a mile. I have to say, I met some of the best, most decent people ever, at TWI. There were a lot of good folks who genuinely wanted to do good for God. They were enthusiastic - for God. For the most part, I haven't found that level of commitment in churches or in other Christians. It's my guess that most of those decent people have been run off, banned, or left of their own accord. Alternatively, they have been lured and corrupted to fit with the general ethos of TWI. On the other hand, I also met some of the meanest, most uncompassionate, legalistic b@$tards ever. So full of rules, all done with a smile, because it's God's will, doncha know? Bent on curtailing anything spontaneous, wherever it emanated from. As for high-ranking leadership, there are horror stories abounding here. But it's safe to say, there are a lot of horror stories in mainstream churches too, about some of the evil things that leadership did there - eg, pedophilia and child abuse by RC priests. How has your friend's marriage turned out? Are she and her husband still together? If so...do they actually trust each other?

Jeff (and Dawn) - it's amazing how many of these violent bullies smile in public, and then, behind closed doors, beat up on weaker victims (usually wives) when they get home or behind closed doors, and then maybe say, "Look what YOU made me do!" They retain self-control at the time of an alleged misdemeanor, stew on it some, then let the violence explode in secret. I'd like to see some of these bullies accused of, say pedophilia or some other false allegation, and then put in a room with some big prison bruisers armed with minor weapons like jug cords, bike chains and so on. The bullies would be the first to call "foul!" (Well...I don't really wish ill to anyone. I just wish they'd come to their senses and start behaving like decent human beings.)

Thank you, Waysider and Bowtwi. This last 18 months has been very difficult. Immensely frustrating, depressing, mess-with-the-head stuff. Especially when I have to deal with the office that deals with the State support that I'm getting - not so often now the claim is set up. Those times, I lie on the floor and weep, or soak a cushion with tears, and enter a state of stultification for the rest of the day. Fortunately (or maybe unfortunately) I am getting used to the routine so it's not quite so stressful. Yet through it all I sense God's hand of blessing and protection. Just when I've needed it, something has come through for me. I have some great friends and people at my church genuinely love and care for me. I am invited out for meals, or just given little gifts (a bunch of flowers, box of chocs) - just because they want to bless me. Physical abundance - there's too much of. My little house is overflowing with stuff. The best thing is that I have acquired a new sense of who God is and what he wants for me. His peace, love, gentleness, kindness, permeate life. I'm much more deeply aware of Him and his will now than ever before. Within myself, I find a mellowness and calm that I didn't know. There is more patience, more compassion, more kindness towards others. So I'm content to think that this is all in God's hands, and now that the scales have fallen from my eyes, it's His time to allow me to readjust my thinking, reconsider old teaching, work out what's good for me, enjoy his many blessings. I constantly believe that the next job I apply for (or at least get interviewed for) is going to be the one that has my name on it. But it will be in His time...when I am really ready for it. Still, I can't understand why it is so slow and so absent. Is there something wrong with the way I present myself? Am I still "spiky" - though new friends don't seem to think so. This huge erosion of my skills and abilities sits there in my CV and in my life like a big black hole. The "lost years," as I call them, contain bigger losses than I'd realized. You could look at my CV and think, "Well, she tried this, she tried that...failed at the lot. Never stays anywhere long." ...All that's completely untrue but perhaps that's how it appears. I'm upskilling in some areas but I doubt I will ever fully return to my profession, though I may gain work in parallel areas. I know this: that I am in my house because this is where God wanted me (it was weird how I came to be here); and I got the mortgage and other money to buy the house quite amazingly. And God knows the future and must have known the last job would end. He wouldn't have arranged all that just to have me thrown out homeless in 12 months time... would he? So something good will happen before then. Ideally much sooner!

I am angry. I am upset. I am mightily p'd off. I got laid off from my job 18 months ago. I have been trying really hard to find work, any work, since then. It seems to be that I am either over-qualified (with demanding professional qualifications) or under-qualified (with not quite up to date qualifications for some of the jobs I have been offered. The job I lost was my return to my profession…the profession I gave up for TWI. The job was in the property selling area. And when no houses are being bought or sold…there isn't any work. Since then, I've applied for many jobs of great variety, often at quite junior level, where I have more than enough ability to fulfil the job requirements. Recently I applied for what looked like a great job, combining many aspects of skills that are current and historical. It looked a good fit. I worked very hard preparing for the interview. It went well. I liked the people and they appeared to like me. And today, I learned that they are offering the job to somebody else. I am angry. Upset. Mightily p'd off. Because if I hadn't tangled with TWI and in particular hadn't wasted so many years being majorly depressed after they M&A'd me – when I was incapable of doing anything and especially incapable of holding proper conversations – without that interlude…things would have been very different. ================== In brief, I got more or less bamboozled into applying to join the WC. It wasn't long after I went into residence that the bullying really started. LCM (yes, it was he) had several ranting sessions about people who wanted to return to their professions after their WC training. "Dogs returning to vomit" was a common expression. Such people who returned to their former professions or trades were looked down on with the greatest of contempt. Well, keeping it short: I got M&A'd. It was utterly utterly devastating. It was like being at the bottom of a deep well and all my efforts made me slip more and more down the well. I couldn't speak to anyone without bursting into tears. Couldn't dress or find something to eat without that decision being too much. I couldn't handle myself. No way could I consider any return to anything even slightly professionally demanding. Amazing my then boss was so understanding as to keep me on. I reached a modicum of getting along. I learned to talk to people and regained the weight I'd lost. But inside I was deeply unhappy. Desperately miserable. Life was utterly meaningless. I was horrible to be around. Very spiky and difficult. Nobody liked me…not even I liked me. Actually I despised me. And I must have spent nearly ten years feeling like this. Listless, afraid, sick at heart. Ruined. I was preparing to crawl back to TWI and beg forgiveness for whatever sins I'd committed (clearly too numerous to mention, especially to me) when I stumbled into the Café. Boy oh boy. I read in fascinated horror of what had been going on since before I'd ever heard of TWI, during the time I was there, and afterwards. And, as it were, scales fell from my eyes. ================== Now, I feel I have recovered my sound mind, can evaluate what was taught, can form my own opinions and think through carefully what I've seen, heard, read, studied…life is wonderful. I found an intense "women returners refresher course" and though it was fully subscribed, at the very last minute, a few extra places opened up and one was offered to me. I applied for lots of jobs and amazingly, after 17 years (yes, seventeen years) out of my profession in my home country… I finally landed a job within my profession. Miracle of miracles. It seemed that God was restoring double to me. I bought a house (because, now, I'd plucked up the courage to take on this major debt). Then the property market crashed… taking my job as a casualty. Leaving me with a mortgage. And now… no job for 18 months. I should have been at peak earning capacity now. I should have many years experience, a deep and wide knowledge within my profession. I should have a lot to help others with. I should be a partner in my own practice by now. Instead, I have a huge "hole in my CV," a lack of knowledge. In an aggressive profession, I'm left way behind. My profession is only a fragment of what is lost: no husband, no long-for children either. I can't begin to express those losses. I am so thankful for what God has taught me in the years since the scales fell away, and for the Galatians fruit that is now evident in my life in a way that I never saw in TWI. I thank my God every day for my sound mind and the opportunity to share and help others; for the financial support my country has provided for me; for the friends who have gathered round me and who love me and genuinely care for me; for old friends who never held my weirdness against me; for new friends who accept me as I am. I'm grateful for this aboundingly beautiful life and for all the things my God has provided for me. I simply cannot understand why I do not have a job. And I cannot stand getting all these rejections. So I am angry. I am upset. I am mightily p'd off. TWI taught me that rubbish. I stupidly believed it - what a mug! I stupidly believed they were a loving Christian organization. Hah!!! Some of the people were. The ethos was not. I know this is nothing new. In the face of another rejection just a short while ago, I needed to vent a little. Feel better now. Anybody who wants, can pray for me that in the employment area, the windows of heaven will open real soon and deluge me with job offers.