Twinky

Woah - back up a minute... He taped an apology? :blink: An apology for what, exactly? Just for his "one-time consensual affair" (gag) or for his behavior over many years? His misleading of people? His wresting of the scriptures? His instilling of fear in who knows how many? The mental / spiritual abuse he put so many through? The policy of "mark and avoid"? ...did I miss something? And, of course, in spirit of this new openness and (what was it that Ric0 called it?) explanation - this apology is available on the TWI website, yes, so that all who were abused can listen?

I think they have their own version of something or other. Guess that's a question I should have asked at the first IV but you know, you can't think of everything. Recommendations, anyone, on something well used? For programming for a professional (legal) program, so will use databases to record strings of data, but not many math formulae - just adding/subtracting figures (to make bills) and working out tax. Maybe a few other percentages. Nothing scientific, highly technical, trig or stuff like that.

Well, just picking up on this thread again. I don't think I particularly liked the book. It's now some months since I read it, and it's not very memorable. Maybe I should re-read it. On the other hand, I read "Left Behind" (only the first one, Iunderstand there are quite a number of them) and that was memorable.

Sticking with the planetary theme suggested by GSG: Plutocratic (Adj.) from Plutocracy = rule by the wealthy, or power provided by wealth. In a plutocracy, the degree of economic inequality is high while the level of social mobility is low. The word plutocracy is derived from the ancient Greek root ploutos, meaning wealth and kratos, meaning to rule or to govern Earthy (adj) 1. Of, consisting of, or resembling earth: an earthy smell. 2. Of or characteristic of this world; worldly. 3. Crude or off-color; indecent: an earthy joke. 4. Hearty or uninhibited; natural: an earthy enjoyment of life. 5. Unadorned and simple in style: an earthy homemade stew Martindale’s plutocratic reign gave opportunity to his earthy behavior. (Your ABS at work again!) (For those interested in planets, that leaves Uranus and Neptune...and Uranus in context of earthy behavior...wasn't a good look, LOL)

This is very painful and difficult for you, Dawn. Please be aware that anyone can read this forum - friends, enemies, those who would help you, those who would hurt you. Dave, Victor, perhaps! I'm sorry you were so abused. You were not alone. Unfortunately this outrageous treatment of women didn't start with Dave or VB and didn't end with them either. Some women have been threatened with firearms, others physically assaulted needing hospital treatment. I'm not belittling your experience: it was endemic through TWI and its offshoots. You didn't do anything to deserve it - it is not your fault.

I've been reading lately in The Lion Handbook to the Bible. I just came across this statement: (emphasis added) As I've been reading many different versions after escaping TWI, I've been struck by the better way things are expressed. Sometimes the better way accords with notes in The Companion Bible, showing perhaps how frustrated Bullinger may have been at some of the KJV translations. Reading versions from RSV through The Message gives a much fuller understanding of what the text may have been intended to say. What I do recall, however, is that VPW and later LCM would give alternative "translations" of verses of KJV, saying, "This is what is actually says," or words to that effect (a better choice of tense, perhaps) - a literal according to usage - and that's so clearly what some other version says. I wonder if, at least in the later days, Biblical research was reduced to reading other versions of the Bible and presenting those versions as "better translations" or "literals according to usage." Amplified would be a great version to base "literals" on. Of course, none of us would ever know, since use of other than KJV was virtually unknown. That's if we even had time to read and assimilate.

I really don't remember my first teaching...too much water under the bridge. However, I do remember another, when it would have been early days. Immature believer that I was, I thought that "make it your own" meant understand it and be able to express it in your own words, use your own expressions, choose appropriate examples from wherever seemed appropriate in the Bible - not recite word for word somebody else's work. So that's what I did. The bemused or bewildered faces of those listening showed me clearly that they didn't follow my train of thought and this was not what they expected. Don't think I was ever invited to teach there again. Had they wanted a parrot, they should have bought one.

Here I am with an old joint honours degree in computer systems and my professional subject. Computing skills were good at the time, but heck, I punched the cards myself to go into the big mainframe. (Do I hear some of you say, mainframe??) I learned to program in about 4 different languages. And then I pursued the professional side of my degree, not the computing side. Now a great job is in the cards, with a software company. First IV went well (where they were looking at people skills, ability to train others, and approach to meeting people). They are impressed with my professional background. Second IV next week will test technical ability. In this job role I will need to tailor the software house's own software by scripting to take account of the target firm's own requirements. The firm will obviously provide training on its own programs, software, training packages, etc, but it would be helpful for me to upskill and at least have an idea about scripting. Can anyone here recommend online tutorials, training etc - FREE! - that I can practice with? Currently I use Mozilla; I know some online tutorials use IE which I use only occasionally now.

How about asking what PRACTICAL APPLICATION of said research people adopt - like helping the disadvantaged? (= what is the end result of their research?)

Your reply: "Gosh, that's wonderful of you. I will be blessed when I can sit down, kick my shoes off, and drink a fresh cup of coffee. And you got my favorite blend of coffee! And you put my favorite cushion on the couch!! And, aw, that's so good of you - you cleaned the house all through!!!"

OldSkool, did you see this thread, started somewhat earlier than this current thread?

Gimme a nice glass of (alcoholic) cider any day!

I'm sure they do, Waysider. TWI probably has more "fame" through the cafe than of its own account, nowadays. But let's face it - TWI doesn't listen, does it?

Burford, welcome. You've been a lurker for some time (judging by when you signed up), so welcome to the hurly-burly of joining in the conversations here. Let me welcome you in good old GSC style: (edited to overcome my temporary dyslexia)

Chockfull, you did read the whole of the para where I first mentioned "libellous," didn't you? At first sight, what I read did seem libellous. I accepted that the comments weren't libellous when I understood better. I've been on the receiving end of some of the ill-treatment - made it easier to understand the truth of it. And, Chockfull... I know what libel is. I am a lawyer!

Has anything ever been the fault of TWI and its teachings? If you're a low-ranker, it's your fault if something bad happens. If you're higher ranking, bad stuff happens because you are "standing in the gap." As far as I know, standing in gaps causes drafts round the neck, which may make the neck stiff. And you don't get much stiffer-necked than TWI. Guess they do a lot of standing in gaps.

'Twas the same with the old PFAL class. At every fellowship, the question was (asked enthusiastically), "Have you taken the class yet?" and if you asked a question, "Oh, you'll understand that, once you've taken the class." This was from a bunch of WoWs and I believe they were genuinely committed to God and loved Him. They'd learned what they'd learned from TWI and it was the only place they knew to get "fed." So of course it was the only place they could refer others to "get fed." In setting the hook, however, you overlook another significant aspect. That is the dearth of proper teaching in mainstream churches. Teaching, not rhetoric, not emotion, and not wishy-washy sermons where if a Bible is opened it's a rarity. PFAL (and presumably WAP) got people opening their Bibles and reading, and gave "explanations" of passages that churches didn't. Was Jesus a lure? Maybe. If your prey is hungry enough, you don't need much of a lure.

It takes time to change a mindset. TWI was all for aggressively pushing "the truth" on people. Not only that, it pushed a lot of other doctrines. All of which became deeply ingrained. Many here can attest to how long it has taken them to overcome specific problems, doctrines, habits, not to mention mental aberations acquired along the way. We were rude and pushed away friends, family, anyone who wasn't "in the Word". We thought we were right. For some of us, it has taken a long time to lose that mindset. For others of us, it's been quicker. Might depend on why someone is no longer with TWI. Seeing what people say at this website may, probably does, trigger that mindset of wanting to "bring people here back to the Word/PFAL." It may take some time for those people to realize that's not going to happen, and to understand why. The discourse at GSC has helped people lose that mindset and start to listen to "the other side of the story." It may be tremendously shocking to them. It may take a lot of listening to really hear. But they will never hear, unless they are given time, and not "run off" by people with the same mindset in reverse - the mindset that makes some want to do anything they can to tear down TWI instead of promoting it. Be kind. Be patient. You once thought as some newbies did. But you changed. In time.

Oh yeah, it was, wasn't it. Never even thought of it. No doubt if you were still a Way-head, you'd be concerned about "Wednesday the 13th" not "Friday the 13th." If you were (allowed to be) superstitious.

Is this some of those coincidences that just happen? You know, like when you first learned to pray, and then when what you prayed for happened, you attributed it to God. And if it didn't happen you either attributed it to your own "lack of believing" or to "the adversary." Now it's happening the other way round, are you attributing things that just happen randomly to pulling out your Bible again? You've certainly had some unpleasant things happen to you, though. If reading your Bible is not bringing peace to you - don't read it. God looks on the heart - not on the "works" of spending time reading just because you feel you ought to. Get out there and live what you know, give what you can, and speak when spoken to...if asked. And enjoy the time you have with your mum. It's good, what you're doing with her. And maybe it's God's way of helping you, too.

Grand-daughter, this makes for painful reading and I know there is worse to come. But also there is so much better to come! :)

The HighWay: I googled "The Way International" - first thing up is this website. And I'd been searching for The Way International because I needed the zip code for any letter I might steel myself to writing. ...no such letter was ever written. :P Had been living down the bottom of a deep dark well since being M&A'd mid-90s so no knowledge of lawsuits or anything going on. Was totally shocked. At the time, there were big debates going on within other denominations about how to handle matters like whether homosexuals could be ordained; whether civil partnerships/same sex relationships should be blessed in churches; second marriages where there has been adultery in the first marriage; and paedophilia by RC ministers. I knew TWI would have very strong views and certainly would not condone any such wrongdoing. They stood on what the Bible said and just simply would not allow such conduct. My view of this pristine organization (LOL) was (hmm) somewhat disturbed (!) when I read the documents on the front page at the Cafe.

I know people who refuse to come here because it's too aggressive. When I first came here I was appalled at the libellous comments about some of the leadership of TWI. But I read in a sort of fascinated horror and eventually it began to connect with what I had seen but couldn't comprehend or acknowledge. Eventually I realized that the comments weren't libellous but actually spoke out of a long pattern of evildoing. But my first thought was that these people are so unthankful, so ungrateful, so.... (head in hands). Easy to see why people are put off. Now I'm appalled by how rude some people are to newbies who still hold "TWI truth" in their hearts. It's a sort of "love bombing" in reverse. Give newbies a chance to get through the door, folks! Don't rise to the challenge to "speak the {GSC} truth" quite so aggressively.

Waysider, because I'd wondered if there might be more darker-skinned people, African Americans.

More like VPW and the no-stick gospels. Since by the time he'd finished, there wasn't much of the gospel sticking around.