Twinky

Things harbor devil spirits, doncha know, JJ? Like old annotated bibles. You chase 'em out, girl! Consign them to the fiery pit right now! Seriously, though...it's a book. It's the contents that matter. You haven't the power to destroy those. The words themselves are easily reacquired, in our culture. Just go to the nearest bookstore and choose from scores of versions. It's often helpful to read a variety of bibles, including at least one quite modern translation, as an antidote and to stop your mind running over familiar phrases and TWI interpretations.

Not to mention those in South America, of which certainly there are / have been some. And there are lots of (ex?) Wayfers in South America. You also forgot Scandinavia, also a lot of (ex?) Wayfers there. Scandinavia isn't really "Europe," it has its own identity. There are also lots of (ex?) Wayfers in India.

Heh heh, funny.

Donna also taught that having a quick shower might perk you up better than a quick nap. See, you really don't need sleep at all, just SIT and shower a lot. Didn't they also teach that dreams often meant visions (= revelation), and you were fully conscious during them, watching like watching a movie? As opposed to dreams, where you have little or no conscious involvement? "Your sleep may be sweet" I always took to mean "sleep may be refreshing and undisturbed by nightmares" not undisturbed by dreams.

Why do you want to do a questionnaire, anyway, SS?

You might find these threads of interest: Who comes to the Café? Where are you from? Doesn’t specifically cover what people may believe now. There was a sort of mini-poll a while back that might have covered some aspects of that. Too wide a topic to categorize easily. You’d have to ask very narrow questions. One's in About the Way, the other in Open. I bumped 'em both for you, SS.

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A small step for cat, a giant step for cat relations. Girlies demanded I went downstairs to play tonight and as usual wandered off. Tuxy tried to get my attention, wouldn't play properly, so I lay on the couch reading a book. After a while, bored with my inattention to her - she jumped onto my chest - first time ever! Tried to jump off just as quick, but I caught her and she lay nicely, stretched out all along my torso - I didn't realise she was such a long cat! We had a very nice cuddle then she went off to chase some Go-Cat. So finally she is beginning to realise that this is what cats do (apart frm the usual, of which the least said, the better). Only 2-1/4 years to get this far... Now to get cuddling with Crypto...LOL. I have got them a covered outdoor litter tray. This is to go outside, but currently it's in the lounge. Sprinkled the inside with catnip (only) and they love getting inside and rolling in the catnip. Idea is that they get used to it, then I'll put it in their usual litter tray location next week, then out in the garden the week after that. See how it goes. They love to explore outside in the garden, but refuse to relieve themselves out there and rush in to use the litter tray. It would be funny if it weren't so pungent.

It was a weapon to make us turn off our caring ability. Our empathy for other people. But GOD gave us emotions. He could have devised humankind as some emotionless creature that just did whatever it was programmed to do. Instead, he gave us emotions - presumably knowing that they could sometimes get the better of us. Sure we control our emotions, or at least our behavior flowing from our emotions: we might feel like hitting someone, but generally, we rarely do so. We might feel so happy that we want to hug everyone, but that wouldn't be good either. A certain level of detachment or objectivity is also good...but not to the point of stifling emotions completely. Did not Jesus also display his emotions - joy, happiness, wellbeing, compassion - and anger, sorrow, feeling dejected, feeling rejected? Controlling men can't cope with emotions. Can't cope with anything, really. JJ, glad you've made it out of that emotionless place and sounds like you're making a "normal" sort of life for yourself, complete with as many emotions as you like.

They gave you back your money?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o :wacko: :blink:

What's not hard and legalistic? Grease. Soft as grease. The cafe. Even though we fight sometimes. Gen-2, what a terrible response. A kind and compassionate word would've been nice. A word of comfort. Romans 12:15 15 Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep. Sorry for your loss. From your posts, your dad was a good man who cared a lot for you and taught you a lot.

Waysider, just saw your clip. Too funny! With that extra layer of meaning for ex-Wayfers, LOL. :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

You want to know God better. You want to find out something about Him. You want to make sense of what you already know, which may not be much. You wonder where the exuberance of the early Christian church (book of Acts) has gone. You don't see much that's different about church. You don't see much that's different about church-going Christians. You don't see much expectation that God is around and active. You do see a lot of formalized activities You do get conveyor-belted through a class. You do get pushed into "speaking in tongues." You do get encouraged to attend some other activity. You don't get the opportunity to ask questions or to explore what you're being given. You don't get encouraged to get involved in your community. You don't get the opportunity to meet others from different faith communities. You do get strong views about matters raised in the Bible. You don't get the mellowness of Grace relating to those same strong matters. If you don't learn the mellowness of Grace, you only learn the hardness of the Law. And then there isn't any place to go except some other place that is equally hard and legalistic.

What a very beautiful garden you have, Leafy. Where is it you live? Photos look quite like an English cottage garden, except that everything is further on - your snapdragons, for example.

Part of the problem is that churches very often don't teach much! I wandered in and out of various churches - nice people, but nothing of substance in the sermon, teachings or housegroups wishy washy ("well, I think it means...) and it's discouraging if you want to find out about the Bible, God, Jesus...but have no idea where to start. Then someone comes along, gives you a short (but fairly demanding class) that gives you more information than you've ever had before, apparently supported by chapter and verse, and you have a nice housegroup that seems supportive and caring (and many were, at that level). You read more of the Bible and the collaterals and most of it seems to make sense. And as you go along, you get more and more (self-)indoctrinated about others not knowing anything. You witness to people and although they say they go to church, they have some very strange ideas or beliefs...God sends disasters...God made me ill/gave me this disease...my dead relative is giving me information. You have also learned to view with some suspicion those who do actually know something. And so, then, where else is there to go? Because everyone else seems to be saying, I think it means...or believing bad things about God. And if you've entered the WC program, you've probably already given up a lot of other things and people, cut a lot of links. But when you get out, you realize that you really do have a place to go, and that is straight into the arms of your friends and family, who welcome you back to normality with love and generosity of heart.

No, in case they should feel like beaming in on me again. (well actually they'd never get away with it a second time) Tell you what, I never felt so guilty/under condemnation as I did at that place - the more I tried to do what was required, the more oppression I got from on high. I must really have been in the center of ... somebody's will ... but not God's I don't think. Somebody's will to "doormatize" me. Or maybe, using TWI-speak ... center of which God's will ...?

Anyway, where did this phrase come from? (So who's it plagiarized from, then?) The word "centre" isn't even in KJV. It occurs in other versions, and, where relating to people, is almost always where an accused person is standing in the centre of a ring of accusers (eg, woman in adultery). Young's Literal Translation gives this: ...the penny drops...they wanted us in a place they could accuse us... (runs for cover)

Yeah but Steve, that's in the OT and therefore not applicable to us in the Grace Administration, doncha know. Quite a lot of good stuff in Ecclesiastes...a book that TWI didn't venture into much except as yet another stick to beat us up. There's some stuff about "evil" in there and also about "spirit" all dutifully marked up. And this: 10:20 "Curse not the king, no not in thy thought; and curse not the rich in thy bedchamber; for a bird of the air shall carry the voice and that which hath wings shall tell the matter." My marginal notes read: King=leader Control your thinking Devil sps pick up on things in the senses realm In other words, don't you dare think badly of any of us top leadership, no matter what you may think or see, neither give heed to what others may say, because it's all devil spirits trying to lead you astray and we will find you out. Also 8:1-5 about obeying kings, sorry, leaders. Never mind encouragement like: live life one day at a time, and enjoy that day, which is so much the theme of Ecclesiates.

Belle sent me this stuff when I first arrived at the Cafe. It was really helpful. Maybe Paw could put up some new links, if you emailed the documents to him, Belle?

I'd suspect that such a policy would highlight two things: 1. People who were reading other non-Way research materials. 2. People who were still able to think a little for themselves. Both are quite dangerous to the status quo and so in submitting "new" material to TWI you might as well be signing a gag order and upon repeat offencees, your own M&A order. (who's a Cynic? Surely not me!)

Tzaia, at least you have certainty now. You're a grease spot. Not so much in the toilet as down the sink waste disposal unit. ...What a load of rubbish...

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Nice post, OldSkool. Shift, many of us here had views like those you now hold. We have learned a softer, gentler, form of Christianity OUTSIDE the Way. There are some fine people in churches. They may not know much (in that they may not be able to quote "chapter and verse" but they do do their best with what they know. There's a gentleness and a consideration for different views. They may agree, or they may not. There is no "punishment" for understanding something different. It is easier to get on with others if one takes the view that we are all right on some things, and all wrong on some things. The individual, group or organization that takes the view that it's the only one that's got it right, will quickly run into conflict with the organization next door that holds that same view. If one looks closely, not critically, one may even find that there is something to be learned from some other organization...in heart, in action, in care for others. If you, Shift, are fully persuaded that you, and the organization you are with, are absolutely completely completely completely right in what you believe...in everything the organization teaches...that would be very worrying (that's pride). If you are not so fully persuaded, don't you think you owe it to yourself (if not to the Lord Jesus) to have sufficient respect for your brothers and sisters in Christ, to see if ther is anything you can learn from them? (that's meekness - esteeming others more highly than yourself). I said before that I think you have a sincere heart to help. Now : be enlarged, so that you can help more. You have had some very difficult things to overcome in your life, and perhaps here TWI helped you. But TWI is not the only helper you have had, unless you asked every single person who's ever helped you what their Christian beliefs are. You may find that you have encountered the love of God from a number of people on your journey through life. How much kindness and patience did they show you, in spite of all your off-the-Word behavior? Show that to others ... no matter where they are now. The love of God draws us closer to Him. Reels us in slowly, like playing a fish. It doesn't force us or beat us into submission.

Please tell me you are exaggerating, mstar (rolls eyes). Tzaia, have you forgotten, we are going to be in the air all the time, not in "paradise" at all, which is where OT believers get to hang out but we of the grace admin get to fly around in the sky ... or some such. Anyway I am happy in Paradise Regained, which is life outside "the walls of Zion." It's not without problems, but it is pretty good anywhere TWI is not.