Twinky

Well, I liked the Way Woods. Only small, of course, but I love being in the outdoors, wandering through mountains and forests. No mountains in Ohio, and WW was about the best immediately available as "forest" when in rez, but peaceful for all that (not that, in rez, there is much time to enjoy wandering anywhere). In the Spring mornings, for our pre-breakfast run, we often went through the Woods, both sides of the road. That was specially peaceful. I really don't like running, but running through the woods was a nice start to the day. There's a scrappy bit on the other side of the main road, not where the HHP or the Cabin was, but the other road; that had a pond (gravel pit??) and a place where we did some shooting one time. There were also the stacks of wood that the in rez Corps chopped up. Not such pretty woods, but rarely was anybody there. An abiding memory of the woods was after a huge ice storm had gone through. Everything, everywhere, was thickly crusted with about an inch of ice. Roads and paths were really slippery. We were supposed to be going out Lightbearers but in view of the weather and danger on the roads, the Lightbearers trip was cancelled. The in rez Corps in effect got a free few hours while it was decided what to do with us. It was a brilliantly sunny morning, and I wandered round the Woods and enjoyed the spectacular sight of the glittering ice and the vivid brightness of the branches and the prisms caused by the ice. It was magnificent. Several trees and boughs were lost through the weight of the ice, though.

Yeah, George, I'm always the only user too. Looks like we're all, all alone. Sad.

And why does this thing always say that I am on Shoutbox, a feature that I never have used and don't intend to? (If I could delete Shoutbox completely (not just click the + ) I would do!)

Does TWI still require attendance at lots of meetings in a week? If they would just suggest people got involved in their communities, spent three hours a week inputting into the areas where they live, instead of three hours attending the third fellowship meeting that week or whatever, the people would have the opportunity to make an impact and thereby live their lives as a witness. Then there wouldn't be the need for the hard sell knocking on doors, waylaying people in the shopping mall, or whatever. Imagine that! Three hours a week helping people! Time spent with young lads as Scouts or Cadets or whatever. Time volunteering at a local after-school group teaching football or some useful skill. Time volunteering at a local hospital. That could be a real witness: not the do-you-want-more-head-knowledge kind of witness.

When a PM is received (now, a Conversation) it's possible to add a reply, or do a Fast reply. But where is the text that you are replying to? Very hard to answer a point if you can't see it !

Jeff, the reference to spidery type things comes from one of the offshoots and some visions of spiders crawling out of someone's nose. How edifying. Anyway, don't go smashing spider webs, squishing bugs, etc. Some of them are actually useful. Spider webs may catch flies that spread disease. Bugs may be, or turn into, something that is useful in the garden. It's well to be selective in what you smash down. False idols, for example. Personally I'd see TWI as a sort of fungus. Invisible for a long time, just setting down its roots. Then long time later, up pops its fruiting body (mushroom or toadstool). hat's just what you see. The real body of the plant (/) is well hidden and extremely difficult to eradicate, as you may find if you get (say) black mold in your bathroom. But even fungus, even, is useful, breaks down old trees etc and turns them into useful humus and nutrients for other plantlife. That's where the analogy breaks down. I do not know the use or value of black mold in the bathroom; nor do I know the use of much of TWI doctrine (ie, exclusively their stuff.)

One thing's for sure - you ain't never gonna run out of clients!

JT, my life too. Fearless when I went in, full of fear when I came out. Ultimately because of the spying, talebearing, confrontation over just about anything and everything ... fear really set in. You truly do your best, and you get stamped on. When you've given up everything for TWI (career, friends, family, you name it), to be told you are not good enough, you will be kicked out...does rather instil fear. Well, that's a WC perspective, from one who still had a brain when entering. (I could say more, but I'm just getting overheated ) I guess really, Copenhagen, your post belongs on a parallel thread. Anyway, if this bringing of the New Light of f.e.a.r. is what the W&U class is going to be about - can't see it being that successful.

Frankly, I am surprised (knowing how they like to spin things out) that it is only three hours. BUT - it does include an hour of witnessing!!! (oh joy!) If you don't bring anybody back to fellowship afterwards, have you "failed" the class and have to re-sit until you do bring someone new?

Welcome, Alex!! Good to see someone else from Europe here. I think you are right. A lot of exWay folk have migrated to CFFM or set up their own ministries. There are quite a lot on France, in Germany, and in Scandinavia. Did you ever visit at Gartmore when that was part of TWI or its European offshoot? Enjoy your visits to the Cafe!

Breaking news from an Innie friend: Great new announcement for followers of The Way: The in-residence Way Corps had the privilege of taking a witnessing and undershepherding class taught by Rev Chavisty. Now on the field, all foundational class grads can take it free of charge. It is a 3 hour class with a break for lunch and 1 hour of witnessing. In addition, there is a new class coming out next year, "The Renewed Mind, Your Key to Power." Dress it up anyway you want, looks a way to get more people and more money. Way disciple and Way Corps numbers are down. Faithful grads are not into witnessing, and lots of fellowships have seen no growth. Classes are hard to run, even though a small branch can run a class with only 3 new people and a medium-sized branch with only 5 new people. What a far cry from the minimum required 7 new people for PFAL - and a branch might run 2-3 classes a year! With numbers falling and income drying up, what a great plan - give people a free taste of Way Corps training. No yelling or browbeating, just a free class to get people to go witness. And once they have taken the class, why would they not want to apply it every week?

Okay, I'm just picking up on complaints about portaloos. Field Corps were usually assigned to clean portaloos - "to keep them meek" (yeah right). I got this task several years running (but then, I was always being told I wasn't meek enough). And I have to say that I kept the banks of portas for which I was responsible spotlessly clean, smell free and a pleasure to use. I can't speak for whoever cleaned the men's toilets. Maybe they didn't do such a good job. Or maybe some of you men should have stopped using the bushes. Nobody cleaned them.

Well, in view of his ability to alienate people, even those who supported him at one time, it certainly wasn't the ministry of reconciliation!! I think he was supposed to have the "gift ministry" of a teacher. TWI was very keen on the "gift ministries" shown in Ephesians of apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor and teacher. Here's some they never mentioned: Was he a prophet? Did he "minister" effectively? A teacher? Exhortation, yes? (yeah right). Giving? No, but good at receiving gifts! Ruling? Only with an iron fist! Showing mercy (yeah, right [head in hands, shaking head])? (And mercy with cheerfulness!!) Now he's out in the "real world" I'd really like to think that he is seeing the error of his ways and has begun to understand some of what he has done wrong. Maybe learn a little meekness. Begin to understand what this means, instead of the phony definition TWI gave it: edited for typeface size

Probably demonstrating screwing in Aisle 12.

Kinda goes along with the epithet, "It'll all be the same in 100 years' time." Most things, for most people, really don't matter, long-term. It's "who you are that matters" - if anything does!

An interesting one, this. What do we know about her early life? If what has been said is actually true (and none of us really do know), she must have been a feisty sort of young woman, - she trained to be a nurse, didn't she, and ran away with VPW because her parents disapproved of the marriage? [How wise her parents were!] When did they get married? How long was it before the first child came along? Having children may have made it much harder to leave, for many reasons. They had several children before he went to India, before he split with his denomination and set up on his own/founded TWI. The alleged incident with one of his parishioners resulting in her pregnancy would have taken place before he founded TWI and surely she cannot have been unaware of it (if it happened). [Didn't Rhoda come from that church background too? (Or was that Dorothy?) Hmm. What did they know, do they get a free pass too?] Was Dotsie his first victim? Or was she complicit? At what point does one denounce one's own husband? She knew where he'd got much of his material from. How many "live classes" of PFAL must she have been aware of or sat through, before it was recorded? In later years, she saw more and more people, especially young women, being drawn into TWI. She knew about his shenanigans with Corps women; one poster here says she held her hand as she sobbed after being assaulted. Yet never did she say anything. Abused women do, time after time, leave - then return - to their husbands; accept the husband's trifling opinion of them; believe themselves worthless; enjoy the public presence whilst fearing the private presence. How many victims of abuse do go on to become abusers themselves? There comes a point when a victim ceased to be just a victim and becomes an abuser or abets an abuser, and becomes culpable themselves. Huh, even VPW said, "Don't judge a man till you've walked a mile in his shoes" (not, of course, his original thought). Perhaps he was thinking, "Don't judge Dotsie till you know what's happened to her." (Though it was probably more like, "Don't even think of judging me!") God is the searcher of hearts....

Ham, you agreeing with me? Or with Bolshy? SkyRider: like your ref to Ruth Madoff. So it looks so far like, No free pass. But no doubt others will join in this discussion. Who knows, from way (Way??) back? Thanks, DWBH, we were posting simultaneously. Your opinion carries a lot of weight, for me.

And so the effects of TWI continue to ripple out through the community. Poor woman. You may be able to help her a lot but it may be wise not to go into too much detail, which could be even more distressing.

Before her kids were old enough to take her in. When they were just little. So it would be hard for a woman to leave her husband, with several small kids; don't know what support if any would have been available. Her own family? But...if she knew he was plagiarizing the work of others, and didn't say anything, that makes her an accomplice. Maybe he did keep her in the dark; he refers to discussing things with Ros Rinker. Hard to think that he didn't discuss with Dotsie. Or did VPW scam Dotsie, too? Any early Corps want to weigh in here?

There's a significant body of opinion here at the Café to the effect that VPW knew that PFAL / TWI was a scam – out to get money, and that he wasn't a genuine minister but (wording differs) a shyster, charlatan, snake-oil salesman, etc. It was set up as a scam, right from the beginning. It is also widely believed at the Café that he plagiarized the principal books (PFAL and RHST) and also used other people's work which he passed off as his own. It was a scam. People here are happy to say that. And those same people are happy to give Mrs Wierwille, Dotsie, a free pass. She is seen as a victim of VPW's sexual profligacy, and there seems to be no doubt that she was aware of his behavior in that direction. But ... does she deserve the free pass? She was with him right from the beginning. She supported him in his early years. She was a woman who could speak and act for herself: she ran away with him (apparently). She wasn't cowed by his "greatness" then. She was around when he was thrown out of his original church. She participated in his trip to India. She was there when he began to get involved with BG Leonard. She must have seen BG's book in the house; probably read it. And surely the original founding trustees didn't get together without discussing it with their wives? And yes, it was "another time" when she was younger, when VPW got going with his "ministry," and it may have been harder for a woman to leave her husband – but women did leave their husbands and did divorce them. So…does she really deserve the free pass? Didn't her support help the TWI juggernaut get off the ground (before it crushed her too!)? She didn't speak up right in the beginning, when she knew and could nip it in the bud. Doesn't that silence, and her enjoyment of the "benefits" make her also a scammer?

Back to the original question: according to my Strong's Concordance, the word Apostelloo #649 is from #575 "apo" "off" or "away" denoting separation; and #4724 stelloo meaning "set fast [firmly]", "represss" [abstain from associating with], "avoid, withdraw oneself". Strong's gives the definition of "apostelloo" as "to send out (probably on a mission); lit or fig; put in, send (away, forth, out), set (at liberty)" Nothing there about "light". However, I have a recollection (which could be wrong) about candlesticks and the candlestick held a light (candle) Now a stele [Greek] is an upright stone (but its root indicates that it is something fixed in place) and [Latin] stella means "star" and it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if VPW knowingly or unknowingly confused these two languages so that a star on a stick = light and with the "out" part from "apo" came to mean "light going out from" or "bringing new light" The ancients did refer to constellations as being the "fixed stars" (as opposed to "wandering stars" which we now know as planets). Strong's also gives apostolos #652 meaning "a delegate or ambassador, officially a commissioner of Christ, ie apostle, messenger, he that is sent."

Tom asked: This is the lifestyle that God and the Lord Jesus would have us live...helping one another. Just helping, out of a pure heart and with no expectation of reward. Jesus makes the point that even "sinners" know how to be nice to other people; his "value" was that we should love our enemies. Who's a "sinner" in this context? Well, that's another topic. And as we all know, Jesus wasn't a "Christian." Jewish values, then? Luke 5:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. 32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. 34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. 36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. But in any event, it's not a uniquely Christian/Jewish value, to be supportive of one's neighbor. For poorer or subsistence-level tribes, it may be the only way they can live at all. Bravo Billy for his uncomplicated goodness of heart. He's a great example. Tom, can you offer mutual help ... like reading lessons?

What interesting things you miss when you're field Corps, and have the privilege of serving by scrubbing the portaloos! Bravo the guy who tossed the armband at the tosser

Brainfixed, I don't know what injuries (physical or mental) you suffered, but suffer you did. I don't want to sound trite, but you can probably overcome a lot of chronic problems. You are already learning to think better and more clearly (in fact - getting a sound mind, LOL), and that will give health and strength to your whole body. TWI has already damaged your early years and sucked the life out of them. Don't give them the satisfaction of ruining your later years or expecting your life to be foreshortened. Live long and happy, and prove them wrong! TWI insanity IS of the "adversary." So many of their pronouncements are insane. Stay well, be happy

Moments I enjoyed: First week of first year: potatoes had been lifted out of the ground on some field near the hen house. We were all invited to volunteer for work picking up the potatoes. We new recruits soon found that volunteer meant do it anyway. But it was one of those lovely golden evenings and it was soooo nice being out in the field. (Cleaning out the hen house during the same evening wasn't quite so much fun.) Cleaning out Emporia (Euphoria, LOL!) ready for the auction. We worked hard. At least this work had purpose, unlike much "busy-work". The CC was very relaxed and we had some great evenings telling stories and roasting marshmallows. Scrubbing dusty chairs outside Founders in readiness for the Rock - a brilliantly sunny day - just great for a water fight with the hose! And this one: Swimming was banned after dark in the pond near the Wierwille household on the grounds it might disturb Mrs. W. Well, it was a really hot night and being the rebellious sort, I led a younger Corps friend into error by proposing a quiet swim. Nobody ever found out (confession time here!!!) and it was really lovely. Not quite the same category as the early posts on this thread, hardly even "priceless" but memorable good times nonetheless.