Twinky

Bloody hell, Rummie, that looks very bad. What dimwit tried that? (Musta been way over the two-drink limit, LOL.)

Was looking for some broken glass to crawl over on my way back to TWI. Crawled in the door of the Cafe. Liked the taste of the coffee and stayed.

Hey, JC knew what he was letting himself in for. He said his Father would send angels to rescue him, if he (JC) asked. He could have run away, or just plain not gone to Jerusalem. He read the scriptures. He knew that torture and death awaited him. He even read the scriptures that WW has quoted! He wasn't expecting some miracle rescue from death while he was on the cross: he'd seen enough animals sacrificed (or otherwise killed) to know that dead meant dead. Yet he knew that God wouldn't leave or forsake him: his Father was always with him. He knew he would be resurrected after three days: he had not long since raised Lazarus from the dead; he had read about people raised from the dead in the OT; he threw the sign of Jonah in the Pharisees' faces; he had himself said that this temple (his body) would be raised in three days. I doubt his words would be "why have you forsaken me?" It just doesn't seem logical. The "cry of triumph" espoused by TWI/Walter Cumm1ns in the 80s sounds more logical. But is it correct? Could it have been some words quoted from the ceremony [which we know nothing about] when the sins of the nation were transferred onto the live goat to bear away the sins? Or at the time the other goat was sacrificed? What might you say, if you were dying in the course of doing something heroic? "Sh1t, this hurts." "It's what you wanted." "The price is paid." "You've got what you wanted; now fulfil your part of the bargain." "Is it worth it?" "It's worth it!" ...What do battle-injured and dying soldiers say? Apparently lots of them call out for their mothers! Wouldn't JC call out for his mother Mary, or his Father, God? Perhaps the words sounded like the commonly-quoted words and were so recorded (by whom? The centurion? Did he speak Aramaic?) Perhaps they were something slightly different. Or perhaps the words had some other meaning that has now been lost - changed their meaning "in the original" over the millennia (like "prevent" = pre-vent, precede, in English). There will come a day when you can ask him...if you dare.

Sometimes something you want "just happens" for you. Sometimes you read just the thing you need to read, or hear just the thing you need to hear. Sometimes doors open where they seemed to be shut; opportunities arise where there seemed to be none. Sometimes it's walking out with a thankful heart and suddenly a patch of sunshine falls right on you. Sometimes it's the very thing you need to meet a need. Sometimes a hug, or a kind word, from a friend. Sometimes it's a "just knowing" something. Why limit God to words? Words are only a way of expressing thoughts or heart-desires anyway. I don't have a problem with God communicating with me or any other believer. I really DO have a problem with TWI's idea that God being spirit can only talk to spirit. That "unbelievers" have no connection with God. It's part of their way of limiting God, cutting him off from people (as if!!). It's partly through his wonderful works and the physical things around us that he communicates: with believers and unbelievers alike. God is not a respecter of persons. Does he not care for us ALL - whether we believe (in) him or not?

Ubuntu is something real? I thought Ham was joking and it went along with pseudo-SIT.

Dooj! It's your birthday? Hey, have a great one. I was so pleased to meet you, and always enjoy your thoughtful posts.

Ah well. They didn't agree with "suffer [permit] little children" Their motto was "Suffer! Little children!!"

A friend of mine who is still in has told me that there are several branches in the U.S.A. that are run by Advanced Class grads. Interesting, huh? In the past, Way Corps ran pretty much everything. These branches consist of two or more fellowships. (Even more interesting, huh? Two fellowships - a branch...scarcely a decent sized "twig".) It appears that now TWI've run off many of the WC, and there are not too many able followers who willing to "rise up." Looks like the Way is shrinking fast and they are filling in the holes with normal people. Such rise and expansion .

's all ready so set. Maybe it's not possible to stop the adverts on Hotmail. After all that's what keeps it free of charge.

Well, after recommendations from lots of people (including those on this site) I've started using Mozilla Firefox, and rather like it. In fact, I never use IE now although it still wants to update itself. Whenever it so attempts, it really upsets all the settings on my wireless connection. Just not worth the effort. How do I set the browser to block pop-ups? Or maybe it is properly set - it's the annoying adverts on my Hotmail account that I'd like to get rid of. Maybe WW could PM me, so as not to derail this thread. Thanks.

"State leaders"? - WTF?? Has TWI abandoned the "tree" analogy? Wouldn't the state leader be - the Governor? The Senator?? (LOL) So what are Reyn0lds, Harve P and Moneyhands assigned to do? Hey, innies, let's have a list of ... all these people that we don't know ... and all their fake jobs. BTW, some trees are notorious for throwing up parasitic saplings from their roots. These are known as "suckers." In devising this analogy, VPW forgot about suckers... http://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profiles1004/treesuckers.asp

Wish I had taken more pix when I was in rez. I go through phases,n at times taking quite a lot of photos and other times never touching my camera. But when in rez, there were the twin problems of (1) finding the money to buy film, then develop and print photos, out of the $30/month allowance; and (2) getting out and about to somewhere that could D&P (there was very little free time, for anything). Supposed I could have asked visiting spiritual partners or other people who came in; but those poor willing souls (God bless 'em) could often find themselves quite put upon by the needy in rez corps. Some of my Corps however did manage to take some photos - well, they did on LEAD but I myself might have managed an exception for that - but most of the time, we didn't. I did find the class pic taken at conclusion of my first PFAL. ...Who were all these people? And I have copies of a few other class pix of later PFALs - who were all those people? In part, the 'no photos' thing (especially as it relates to alleged cop-outs) is "forgetting those things you've left behind". But that doesn't exactly square with HQ taking their own photos of classes, events, productions, etc. I don't remember any specicfic doctrine or teaching on this. Oh wait, yes I do. I remember some sort of slide show where LCM was showing us some slides of some party in the Big Top. There was a pic of someone who had recently "copped out" and LCM couldn't get past that quick enough and made some remark in less than complimentary tones. A little later in the same slide show, there was a slide of me dancing with someone and he flicked past that pretty quick too. Always thought my days were numbered, after that. However, I did manage to hang on to graduate and then for a while after that, too. What I do remember from the mid to late 80s is that the music of alleged cop-out musicians was HEAVILY frowned-upon and banned. You would get divil spirits from listening to such material.

I just skimmed this thread for the first time... Wasn't/Isn't there a sign over the door of the BRC saying something like, "The Good Old Days are NOW!"? Heck, those who are innies now (but not yet posters here) might well look back in 10 years or so on their time now and think it was the good old days. Some of the best people I have ever met have been in TWI. Some of the worst people I have ever met have been in TWI. I knew nobody already in when I joined. I know some people now that I maintain still contact with. Am friends with, even. Am glad to know. There are others that I have not yet heard of/been in contact with that I would like to know about. Then there are are the other people ... that I would have difficulty being anywhere near. They are few and far between. Brainfixed, your time will probably pan out like that too. It wasn't all bad, it certainly wasn't all good. It's looking at it for what it was, and trying to find a balanced view. Not wildly one extreme or another. What does it take to make your heart peaceful? Your head is a bit of a whirl but you sound like you're "getting there." Be patient with yourself. The rubbish in your head wasn't put there overnight and it won't be cleaned out overnight, either. Dooj says some good stuff.

Hey, Ham, knock it off! I spent ... too long... on Bevvy crew. I always seem to get assigned to Bevvy crew on big weekends, events, etc. It made for a horribly long day. Up early to turn on the hot water machine, make, serve, wash the containers, more HW, make, serve... and so on. Funny I never looked to see if it was Decaf or not. And I don't remember that I ever had a cup of it ... too darn busy to pause even that long! And now I find myself, just occasionally, on Bevvy crew at Church. Where I do find time for a cup of coffee. What a mug! (lol, get it? ) No MoGs in sight, though. I think next time I am on Bevvy duty - but why wait that long? - I will take a cup of coffee out to the whoever delivers the sermon, as s/he stands bidding farewell to people at the door.

This is what Jeff is referring to: What we're looking at here is the situation where perhaps both had been unbelievers, one had been won to Christ, and the other still hadn't made up his or her mind, continuing to follow the old beliefs and worship of Diana, Artemis, or whoever. We are not talking about the OT situation of the Chosen ones taking foreign spouses. Yes, culturally wives were supposed to follow their husbands and believe what their men believed. But actually, women do have their own minds and brains, to think with! Paul's advice was basically that the behavior of the believing spouse should be a witness of God's love for the unbelieving spouse, and so win the unbelieving spouse to God. But if the unbelieving spouse refused to behave in a reasonable manner, then the believing spouse had no duty to put up with that. But of course, TWI took no attention to Paul's exhortations (and here this thread ties into the Submission thread): This spousal abuse is not unique to TWI. Some years ago, I met a fine woman (in a matrimonial situation) - husband was a leader in the Salvation Army - she led a terrible life and when she complained to the other elders, she was told that she needed to submit more (sound familiar?). Her husband's anger and abuse were her fault! Poor woman couldn't stand it any more and sought a divorce. The legalities of the divorce were one thing, but her head couldn't get round leaving him. I shared these verses with her and pointed out that the husband, in beating her, wasn't doing what he should be doing as a leader, that he was unbelieving, that if she continued to live with him that was bondage and Christ had called us to be free. She obviously thought about that a lot and the next time she came into the office, she was really changed and she said these verses had set her free. I have encountered ex TWI women who have been beaten, threatened with weapons, and physically abused. This often follows significant emotional abuse and systematic belittling. Other women have "merely" been emotionally abused - the damage from that can be much much worse. VPW abused and belittled his own wife privately, whilst vaunting their marriage in public. That's the example he set. If your private treatment of your spouse differs from your public treatment of that same person - why? (Do you know the word "hypocrite"?) For women: if you were with Jesus two millennia ago - would he treat you like your husband is doing? For men: if you were with Jesus two millennia ago - would you have seen him treat his followers, men or women, in the way you are treating your wife? There are enough examples of Jesus being with women to form an opinion! (edited cos I couldn't get my quote references in the right way!

Aw, what a beauty. Congratulations to Mum and Dad !! and to all the other !!!! on the new addition to the family. Mum and Dad look VERY pleased with themselves.

I foresee a time when they will charge the visitors to HQ for the cups of coffee offered at big weekends, SNS, etc. Gotta steward that ABS properly, you know.

Hmm, are they back to what they did in the 80s? -centralizing all stores of everything -have to request pens one at a time (perhaps paperclips, too?) -cutting staff salaries (like the staff can really live on any less money) -Are they rationing the toilet paper yet

Leafy and GC, I am madly envious of you! My garden is pathetic. Really pathetic. Little salad seeds have hardly emerged. Of 77 beans I have one nice plant and 3 or 4 miserable ones. I believe ants are carving up the leaves as fast as they appear. I am soaking some more seeds which I will plant NOT in the garden tomorrow, and if the plants grow I will transplant them. I have been given some beautiful scarlet curly kale plants and some purple sprouting broccoli. They are now nicely at home in the garden. These are now resident in the place where the "sacrificial" savoys were and I have pulled off and kept the decent leaves for eating and composted the rest. Tonight I seeded some lettuce (previous lot never germinated or was eaten) and beetroot (only a few brave ones germinated) and also some leeks (previous ones in pots did nothing). Really must get on with finishing the shrub border. It has a lot of ground elder. A lot of that got knocked back last year when I dug out 4 leylandii. There is also bindweed in that border, which I also need to remove as best as possible. Then I will put permanent shrubs in, perhaps leave space to transplant the gooseberry and the raspberries from their current position. Ah, about my bean trench. In addition to the one decent bean plant and the struggling other 3 or 4 there are also: Lots of potato plants Some tomato seedlings Something like a squash or courgette (just emerging) Rather worrying. Means my compost wasn't properly composted when I dug it in. Who knows what else I have "planted"? The potatoes are from peelings, so nothing really to support the plant. I don't expect much to develop underneath - if I choose to leave them. Might transplant the tomato(es) if they get big enough. ***** GC, looks like we won't be able to catch up before Aug. You are on hols soon, and a friend from overseas is visiting nearly all of July. Speak with you about a visit when my friend goes. Have a nice holiday!

One of the things TWI did for us was to eradicate our critical thinking skills. (You can think anything you like, as long as it doesn't disagree from the TWI take of the day.) Coming here for the first few times was shocking. How could people post such things? How could they be so anti-TWI? How come their opinions were so "off the Word"? How come after such teaching, they could think such weird things? But the variety of different responses on most forums really gives any reader the opportunity to start thinking again. We've all come from more or less the same place, and our thinking has splayed out in all sorts of directions. Some people's posts ... still seem out there. Other posts really help me evaluate what and why I think something. So actually just being at the Cafe is a good critical thinking tool. Brainfixed, you might find you go through a whole lot of different opinions before you finally work something out for yourself. Enjoy!

BNB, I think you see exactly the sort of attitudes represented on this thread that you are finding working on your GF. (Drat! I see the Mods have removed OM's post, at least partially! That's how offensive it was.) Escapees are keen to help you escape. TWI-heads are keen to blame you. It's obvious here. It's obvious but much deeper and with other subtleties in the handling. Sorry your GF has gone back. You will need much patience if you choose to pursue this woman. Just don't pursue her straight into the mouth of the ravening wolf. (You'd be as stupid as Adam if you did. You'd know it's wrong but did it anyway.) Even if she decides it's not for her, she has a long road ahead of her to get rid of the junk they've filled her head with. It can be very difficult for friends, family and other supporters just helping those who have left.

T-Bone, that has all the makings of an excellent comedy show!

Hey, Ex10, I just got an email from Tagged supposedly from you. Did you actually send this? I looked at the email, and to view the pix I have to give lotsa personal data and sign up for an account, including giving DoB. GstG - exactly!! Makes sense if it's a dating service type of thing.

Not quite on topic, but the reason the abuse happened, why they were so "strict" with children, is because they focused on Eph 6:1-3 and divorced it from 6:4: While TWI might have said they were fulfilling 6:4b ("training and discipline") they forgot / ignored / glossed over the "don't exasperate" part and Amp notes the rearing of children is to be done "tenderly". But hey. If you stick with KJV what you get is: And the only note I have among my many pencilled Bible notes is that "nurture" means "discipline". No. Nurture is a WHOLE LOT MORE than just discipline. It's carefully providing for all that the nurtured one needs to maximise growth: the right growing conditions, right environment, right food, right handling. Check any decent dictionary.

Y'know, witnessing shouldn't be a big deal. Sit on the bus, the train, a bench on the park; engage someone in conversation; you'll find they quickly start talking about their pet "thing". How many are happy talking about their "Mother Nature" or astrology or black/white magic or whatever their thing is? They complain about the weather? Just speaking about how good God is, and how we couldn't manage without x or y. Surprising how many will start talking about their own Christian faith. I say this, living in a country where one's beliefs are only rarely spoken about; it's not good form and it's non-PC and ergh... :( - not a high public God-consciousness here. It's nice to engage in conversation and put a smile on someone's face. Make them feel a little better about their day. Maybe they will accept a kind word or two from you, a stranger whom they'll never meet again. Maybe they will tell you about some problem on their mind. Maybe you will give them the only nice time they will have that day. When it gets hard, is where you aren't engaging in a conversation but engaging in a sales pitch, or trying to "convert" them there and then to your way of thinking, or "showing off" about how much of the Bible you know - and generally disregarding or dismissing whatever they say. No wonder people were put off by the "mall attack" or the doorknocking. Wonder how many people were ever actually won for God (never mind TWI) that way?