oldiesman

Thanks for sharing that Johniam. Kind of adds some light on the twi- isolationism propaganda, doesn't it? Imagine, glassy-eyed neon eyed cult followers under mind control bondage for a whole year being allowed visits from their parents!

Livininit, thanks for sharing that. No matter how hard some posters try to revoke his membership from the body of Christ, facts are facts and he did accomplish much good in his life too. God remembers our good work in the Lord, though people may forget and belittle.

I trow not. :)

Well nobody asked my opinion but, for those who think Dr. Wierwille was a counterfeit, "false teacher" may be the most accurate. I think that's what I would use if I were inclined to think that way. :)

Well you surmise wrong. I invited you to discuss this point privately with me in the past; i.e., if you have any knowledge or facts that I was treated better than anyone else because of my family members involvement ... then I would concede the point with you. But you have no specific knowledge or facts, just destructive conjecture where that's concerned. I just want to reiterate that I do believe you when you talk about yourself and your own experiences. I respect that. However I tend to doubt you when you think you speak for everyone else's experience...

Because I fellowshipped with people just like you for 19 years, who did not necessarily have their entire family involved in twi; and while I believe you for what YOU went through, I do not believe your every remark when you think you speak for everyone else. You don't speak for everyone else. Why can't you get that? In my first year of WOW, my sister's unbelieving family visited us, out on the field. It was her decision. She wasn't isolated. That's just one example of why you don't speak for everyone else...

There's another possible choice: © his believing wasn't big enough to receive miraculously healing.

I agree with the idea that "if" they had soul life in the womb, it'd be no different than anyone else. I just question that those verses bliss used could be used to prove that there is soul life in the womb in all cases, especially the first trimester. I do think they could have been talking about themselves primarily and not necessarily about everyone else, especially the prophesy about Jesus (or was that John the Baptist?). Way back when, I think they did believe in evil ungodly blood lines. Joshua at Jericho for example. Destroyed everyone, man woman child, even animals. If memory serves, some lines were contaminated by the Nephilim too. But that may be off track to our discussion here.

The answer to that is pretty obvious. It can't apply to every human being who ever lived. Doesn't make sense.

I trow not, bliss. If Mrs. Hitler thought her child's days were fashioned by God, and God was looking over him in the womb as a human being, do you think she was correct? I don't know that Psalms applies to everyone. What about Jeffrey Dahmer, was he fearfully and wonderfully made in the womb by God? Osama Bin Ladin? Mao Zedong? Kinda makes one think, doesn't it?

Yes I think so. Just wanted to point out that his "prediction" from 1976 had a qualifier along with it, and he could have been correct with that particular "prediction" or "prophesy". BTW, I don't consider VP to have ever been a prophet. I always considered him to be a teacher. He called himself "The Teacher".

Yes, little ol' twi and wows. You are entitled to your opinion though. I didn't say we WOWs were the cause of the freedom; I said I believed we made a difference at that time. Spiritually, this isn't all that far fetched, except perhaps to the carnal mind. God blesses nations that follow and acknowledge him, and we were worshipping Him and believing Him for continued blessings.

If you isolated yourself, that was your choice; but these issues were predominantly up to the individual. or, the mindset of the individual making the decision.

sorry Rottiegirl but had to show you this, have you seen it?: Rottie nurses kitty

Interesting thought: those scriptures refer to Jesus and David. Would you proclaim the same verses for Adolph Hitler?

I was encouraged by VP, personally, that after the WOW program to go back to my area in the Bronx and teach them what I learned. I didn't follow his advice, instead I thought I knew better, went in the Corps, and screwed up. Regarding "visiting earthly family" , I would readily admit that having one's entire family in twi which I did made things a whole lot easier.

That one wasn't a failed prophecy because the antidote was contingent upon the Word getting over the USA, which at the time was deemed by twi to happen or at least very close to happening. I believe we did make a difference there spiritually which caused physical blessings. I was WOW that year and remember one of the foundational scriptures for that year: Psa 33:12 Blessed [is] the nation whose God [is] the LORD; [and] the people [whom] he hath chosen for his own inheritance.

Just like most everything in twi, it was up to the individual to decide for themselves what possessions they wanted and not wanted. This of course didn't always apply to the Corps or WOW which were special training programs. Seeing earthly family... was an individual decision. Same with movies. I can remember some very fond memories of all my WOW family enjoying "The Empire Strikes Back" first time at the movies, back in 1979.

But it doesn't mean there were no trimester demarcations, and I have provided written proof of same. I'll be happy to email a copy of the magazine to anyone who wants one.

But you asserted there were no trimester demarcations, and I offered written proof that there was. A magazine like that can't be published without careful consideration, assimilation, examination, back and forth discussion of and with prominent TWI believers. If something contradicted twi doctrine, it wouldn't have been published. This isn't Dave Craley going off on his own trip and teaching his own doctrine. If you saw the magazine you'd see what I mean. If you like, I would be happy to email a pdf to you.

Sky4it, are you referring to doctrine, or sins? If you will, please explain what doctrine (or sins) are similar. On the sin level I often compare Wierwille with Solomon, but even that seems unfair to Wierwille, since Solomon did much worse evil. It'd be interesting to know what if any similarities of Wierwille with Calvin.

Yes I can believe that his decisions both good and bad were deliberate. But that doesn't mean he wasn't enticed and / or deceived along the way, just like us. As far as his Godly responsibilities are concerned, he taught the Word for over 40 years, and didn't waiver from a number of sensational truths.

I think he fell into the same trap as Solomon who having nobody to answer to, hundreds of wives, thinking all that sex was good, he got obsessed with it for a time. He thought it was all pure and good. Interestingly though, Wierwille didn't go as far as Solomon did to worship other gods.

Out There, I agree with you; but some posters are simply focused, fixated on Dr. Wierwille's sins. It's an obsession. I think these are otherwise reasonable people. I sometimes think some of them hate Wierwille so much more than the devil himself. The relentless hate and piling on is incredible. It is staggering to watch sometimes. Golly, I thank God I'm not of that mindset.

I wrote that but wasn't entirely accurate with those statements. The piece by Dave Craley explains it a lot better.