oldiesman

It helped establish more harmony in our home. *That* was concrete.

Well Golly, I coulda also offered that from JCING. The idea that "Jesus will be called God" doesn't make him God.

Another Dan, thanks, you too. Here's a short answer on what I think: it is not uncommon that people were given the God title in the Bible. Another instance is Psalm 82:6. God in that verse is Elohim. But that doesn't mean people are God Almighty any more so than Jesus is God Almighty. I would ask Abigail what she thinks of Psalm 45:6, she knows more about the old testament than I.

If I say to you "black is white and white is black" is that useful to you? Another Dan, I'll have to look those up. Could you please quote the scriptures (chapter & verse).

Well, I don't believe it does but isn't this what trinitarians believe?

While some ideas and concepts can have duplicate meanings, a lot of VP's explanations especially on the trinity make more sense to me than the relativism offered by some other churches and groups. As VP said in his book " if son of God means or equals God the Son " then language and words are useless as a tool for communication. Another principle that helped me taking PFAL was that the Word means what it says and says what it means, and shouldn't be watered down. I think if there's an apparent contradiction then, I think its much better to say "I don't know" than water it down to fit your beliefs or traditions as I believe trinitarians do with that one belief. I received little inspiration from the religion of my youth because of their failure to provide solid answers from the bible, like VP and TWI has done for me.

A man named Stefan Emerick started things off in the Bronx, in 1971. Fortunately for me, he lived just around the corner. His mom Annie was a waitress in Riverdale and knew my mom who also was a waitress. My mom began twigs in 1972 and the rest of us followed shortly thereafter.

Well it certainly mattered to twi and PFAL. The accuracy of the Word was one of the prime directives, their bread and butter and was taken very seriously. I think one concept that both trinitarians and unitarians can agree on is that Jesus is LORD.

So then according to his Advanced Class teaching, his body may have been possessed. Golly.

If you are talking about three persons, three egos, three intellects, or three selves; you are talking about three Gods, am I missing something? In other words: If Peter, Paul and Mary are all God, three distinct persons of a God of unity and purpose, and somebody worships them equally because they believe they all form together one nice big fuzzy God of the same unity and purpose; then one still worships Three Gods, not one. The God Peter, the God Paul, and the God Mary. That's three, not one (except in unity and purpose).

Well I can see that with vocal cords, but not with cancer...

Its doublespeak. First you say there is only one God, then you define God as having 3 persons, egos, intellects or selves. i.e,, Three Gods. Golly no wonder why folks get confused about the bible.

There may be an exception: vocal cords. If memory serves, I think there was a teaching by VP about devil possession of vocal cords. But here's a question: is it possession of the actual vocal cords or the mind? Does one actually speak with vocal cords or with the mind?

I don't think so. But Wierwille's trinity so to speak would be "one in unity, one in purpose". Not one in the selfsame. :) Thanks Waysider, I stand corrected. I don't understand how a devil spirit can possess a body part, but hey, it's Monday! :)

I agree that VP taught that it was life and "all life is spirit". Disagree that he taught that those who have cancer are possessed. When you think about it, it makes no sense. Possession is in the category of the mind, whereas cancer runs around the body. Unless one literally believes that lung cancer means lung possession, prostate cancer equals prostate possession, breast cancer equals breast possession, throat cancer equals throat possession, etc. etc.

It does say the scripture is of no private interpretation. Therefore a problem with your view might be an interpretation that contradicts another, obviously. As I see it, there may be different levels of understanding which is ok but in order for it to be "the Word of God" it can't contradict itself. A simple example would be "I and my Father are one" John 10:30. I had a conversation with a good friend who's also a priest, who said he believed that means "one in the selfsame"; whereas I believe it means "one in unity, one in purpose." PFAL did help me in this case since one of the keys to the words interpretation of itself, as taught in PFAL, is that the difficult verse should be understood in light of the clear verses. If one stick out like sore thumb, it must be understood in light of the many clear ones. Here, the clear verses over 60 of them are that Jesus is the son of God. There are others that show Jesus's sonship to and worship of God, whereas the opposite is not the case. And so I think from this one verse alone one can logically surmise that the scripture can't rightfully contradict itself so much so that "son of God" means "God". i.e. several different levels of interpretation of this verse may lead to serious error.

They may have crabs.

Some of the JBS stuff is quite good. I'm not much for the conspiracy stuff, sometimes I do listen intently, but they do have excellent DVD's on the purpose and meaning of the Constitution of the United States, how our form of government supposed to work and why it is the best around, the proper function and original intent of the founding fathers, and how our government and rights differ from other political governments. etc etc.

AnotherDan, Thanks for sharing. You've so eloquently summed up feelings of mine about VP as well.

Sounds fair to me. :)

Right on Larry! :) As I recall the PFAL teaching it was "God is The Word", "Jesus is the Word in THE FLESH", "the bible is the Word in Writing". So Jesus Christ not being here in the flesh, the Word takes the place of the absent Christ. Simple really. This wasn't a problem or misunderstood when Wierwille taught it. If it was, there would have been clarification. Only the past few years is this so-called kakamayemee "absent Christ" doctrine being spewed as if it were historical fact by some GS posters. Whether PFAL was right or wrong, if they're going to teach PFAL, they should at least teach it accurately.

Abigail, if you're asking me these questions, then I would refer you to my previous answer about seeking the good in Wierwille, which you said you bought. I don't answer these speculative questions that can have no real answers and only seem to result in strife and debate.

Well I suppose it's moot since the feds ban partial birth abortion now. It's now a matter of adhering to the law of the land. I think this is a good thing. This is expected to trickle down to all the state legislatures, in time: PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION ACT OF 2003

I honestly don't see much profit in dwelling on your characterization of a "legacy of abuse that also lives on". I don't know that it is fair to say that the current state of affairs at twi is abusive, do you? Much like a Catholic parishoner may not find profit in dwelling on pedophile priests, life goes on. The church goes on. If something at present is destructive and abusive, the Word says to reprove and rebuke, and make correction. If there is current abuse taking place in twi or the offshoots then it is incumbent to root it out and make correction. Do you know of any adultries / rapes currently taking place in twi or the offshoots? I don't know of any. I think there is some current twi doctrine that is worth questioning; but I believe that can be accomplished in love and respect, not hatred and disrespect.

I think VP's legacy is the continued teaching and preaching of the accuracy of the Word of God. I believe the important thing is that the Word continues to be taught and believed... and I think that is what he would have wanted most. I see nothing wrong with that and much right about it. And, I think that's the only profitable thing that's left. Hatred is destructive and doesn't help.